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It Feels Like We’re Nearing the End

Define creating then.
Putting the ball on the floor, penetrating, drawing defenders…“creating” an easier scoring opportunity for a teammate. Ill concede that Frans offense doesn’t seem built for that. Either that or his recruiting at pg has been so bad that he hasn’t had any effective at doing it.
 
Putting the ball on the floor, penetrating, drawing defenders…“creating” an easier scoring opportunity for a teammate. Ill concede that Frans offense doesn’t seem built for that. Either that or his recruiting at pg has been so bad that he hasn’t had any effective at doing it.
Fair enough - and I think Fran's best offensive teams were ones that kept the ball moving. He's tried to get more athletic at the position - Toussaint and Bowen being 2 examples; but both had a bad habit of getting into the lane and then not being decisive from there.

Thelwell appears to be someone who can be creative with the ball in his hands. I think Brock has that ability as well, tho his size may limit his effectiveness in the paint.
 
Fair enough - and I think Fran's best offensive teams were ones that kept the ball moving. He's tried to get more athletic at the position - Toussaint and Bowen being 2 examples; but both had a bad habit of getting into the lane and then not being decisive from there.

Thelwell appears to be someone who can be creative with the ball in his hands. I think Brock has that ability as well, tho his size may limit his effectiveness in the paint.
Might be, but it’s too late for me. Im past caring with Fran at the helm, unfortunately. Used to be 1 of my favorite things in the winter, now have zero desire to sit down and watch a game.
 
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the player awoke before dawn...he put his basketball shoes on. He took a face...from the ancient players gallery...and he walked on down the tunnel. "Fran?" ..."yes player"..."I want to kill you"......"Beth?"...." I want to.....transfer alllll night long...come on girl"
 
the player awoke before dawn...he put his basketball shoes on. He took a face...from the ancient players gallery...and he walked on down the tunnel. "Fran?" ..."yes player"..."I want to kill you"......"Beth?"...." I want to.....transfer alllll night long...come on girl"
936c3a76f7219be9a4cf0afe72742b95--apocalypse-now-season-.jpg
 
Everyone on scholarship has a compensation package over 100K (some are bound to be much higher than that). When you make double the average pay in iowa, people will no longer care about your feelings.
When you reach the point where you are talking about deserving support vs earned, you've lost the battle.
I said coming into the year, the only way fran can earn my support back is to play better defense. Yes, it's early, but there has been nothing that would suggest that this year will be any different. If anything I'd say it's trending worse.
Again, show some proof to back up the 100,000 + figure.
 
Disagree to an extent. I think the combination of the Alford-Pierre Pierce mess AND hiring Lick did sink Iowa BB from any relevance, both nationally and with the fanbase. Fran restored some of the national respect, but the constant postseason failures have kept fans from having any confidence or enthusiasm. Now, NIL has put the nail in the coffin, and until Iowa figures that out, Fran or a replacement are going to be at an enormous disadvantage. All things considered, I think Fran has assembled the current roster, which I believe is capable of having some success beyond mediocrity (dare I say a winning B1G record, and even a sweet 16 appearance). No, I am not predicting a BIG run, and I could be totally off base. We clearly don't have the studs that the top 20 NIL-rich programs have. I think that there is a decent chance that Fran moves on to coach his son, but I have very little confidence that a replacement is going to take the team to a higher level of success. I would be thrilled if I am wrong about that.
you might have a point if duey otzelburger at ISU doesn't do a 180 in a year. There are other coaches that have rebuilt. Hell baylor did and they had a player shoot a teammate.
 
Again, show some proof to back up the 100,000 + figure.
What do you think tuition room food trainers and tutors cost alone. Listen to the Washed up walkons episode where they discuss food/training table costs/weekly food card.
University stipend plus swarm money/NIL is above $30k per player. The women alone were at 15k per last year.
 
you might have a point if duey otzelburger at ISU doesn't do a 180 in a year. There are other coaches that have rebuilt. Hell baylor did and they had a player shoot a teammate.
You think those programs don't have NIL $$$ (and money under the table before NIL), that allowed their turn around? No argument that Fran has a proven high floor and low ceiling. Just don't have high expectations for a replacement doing a lot better, unless they are given more $$$ to work with. Actually, maybe a better chance that they will have a lower floor. I think we will find out soon.
 
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What do you think tuition room food trainers and tutors cost alone. Listen to the Washed up walkons episode where they discuss food/training table costs/weekly food card.
University stipend plus swarm money/NIL is above $30k per player. The women alone were at 15k per last year.
Food/training table has always been a part of scholarship costs as it is for regular students. I just think you are inflating the numbers, whatever. The bottom line is we apparently don’t have enough dollars compared to our competitors.
 
He started Jordan Bohannon and CMac in the same backcourt. Neither could defend or create. Bohannon could shoot and nothing else at the big ten level. Cmac could pass (not create, just pass) but nothing else at the big ten level. When you start those guys in the same backcourt in March, it’s a recipe for disaster.

Actually, that season Connor was in the front court with Garza and Wieskamp. Fredrick and Bohannon would have been in the back court. The only games where Connor and Jordan started in the back court together was when Fredrick was hurt and Keegan replaced him in the starting lineup (four games and went 1-3 with CJ Fredrick out).

The starting lineup of: Garza, Wieskamp, Connor, Fredrick, Bohannon went 21-6 (6-2 in March).
 
They were both very good at getting the guys in spots where they could score. Were either guys that could take players off the dribble? no. but they had excellent assists to turnover ratios; Bohannon holds records for both assists and 3s.

If that's not being a good creator, it's the next best thing.
Lot of it was Garza and Fran has a good/great offense. Bohannon hold records due to being a good player and playing a lot of games.

Connor 5.45 assists per 40 minutes
Bohannon 5.35 assists per 40 minutes
Perkins 4.59 assists per 40 minutes

Harding 10 assists per 40 minutes and a better Assist/Turnover ratio than all 3
 
the player awoke before dawn...he put his basketball shoes on. He took a face...from the ancient players gallery...and he walked on down the tunnel. "Fran?" ..."yes player"..."I want to kill you"......"Beth?"...." I want to.....transfer alllll night long...come on girl"

That’s dark, Mr Morrison

…..my only friend, the end.
 
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It definitely feels that way.

I gave Fran one last chance after winning the Big 10 tourney. I was so emboldened by having a bonafide star in Murray and I thought there was no way that Fran couldn't get it done this time and get us into the Sweet 16. We got Richmond and I rolled my eyes, laughed, yelled loudly in happiness, and instantly felt bad for them. They were the first victim to face Murray. I honestly thought we were a legitimate dark horse contender that nobody wanted to play. Whelp...like I said, that was the last time I watched an Iowa basketball game. It will be until we make a change unfortunately and it has to be a good one because I'm not wasting my time like I did with Fran.

I spent so much time trying to convince friends and my family to give Fran a chance during his first 6 years. Every time they actually tuned in, Fran let us down. I tried to help get people I knew interested in MBB because I want it to be like it was in the 80's and 90's again. I went to many games and never missed a game on TV until that loss to Richmond.

No more. Fran is a good guy it seems and his players genuinely care and like him. He can't get it done though and ultimately, that's all that matters. We have a serious problem with coach retention at Iowa.
But we're gonna suck really, really, really, reallllllly bad for a bunch of seasons if Fran (& Kirk) leave!! /s


And I agree with the above that Fran has wasted major opportunities here recently to make big splashes in both the conference & then the NCAA tourneys.

Combined with what you talked about, there was also the CoVid season that Iowa was a 2-seed, with the likes of Garza, the Murrays, Weezy and JBo. They didn't exactly seriously take care of business vs the 15-seed Grand Canyon and then went out and laid a giant egg vs Oregon in the next round.

Both those seasons should have - at the very least - ended in the Sweet 16, but only 1 combined NCAAT win those seasons.
 
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But we're gonna suck really, really, really, reallllllly bad for a bunch of seasons if Fran (& Kirk) leave!! /s


And I agree with the above that Fran has wasted major opportunities here recently to make big splashes in both the conference & then the NCAA tourneys.

Combined with what you talked about, there was also the CoVid season that Iowa was a 2-seed, with the likes of Garza, the Murrays, Weezy and JBo. They didn't exactly seriously take care of business vs the 15-seed Grand Canyon and then went out and laid a giant egg vs Oregon in the next round.

Both those seasons should have - at the very least - ended in the Sweet 16, but only 1 combined NCAAT win those seasons.
In the Covid season, there was no tourney. Think the Hawks were in line for a 4-5 seed.
 
Lot of it was Garza and Fran has a good/great offense. Bohannon hold records due to being a good player and playing a lot of games.

Connor 5.45 assists per 40 minutes
Bohannon 5.35 assists per 40 minutes
Perkins 4.59 assists per 40 minutes

Harding 10 assists per 40 minutes and a better Assist/Turnover ratio than all 3
Well, Garza sure credited those two a great deal for putting the ball in places where he could score, especially once he became the focus of opposing defenses. He doesn't get the career scoring mark without great support.

Who knows if Harding can sustain those numbers but that doesn't surprise me. I said it last year - I think he's got the best court vision for the men's program since Horner.
 
You think this years team is not a good shooting team? This will be the best shooting team in 4-5 years.
Will see how this looks against South Dakota.

I’ve watched a lot of Iowa Hawkeye basketball, and while I’m not claiming to be an expert, this team is looking rough so far.

Maybe the worst team since the Lickliter days. Really hoping I’m wrong about that.
 
Will see how this looks against South Dakota.

I’ve watched a lot of Iowa Hawkeye basketball, and while I’m not claiming to be an expert, this team is looking rough so far.

Maybe the worst team since the Lickliter days. Really hoping I’m wrong about that.
This team is better than the 2017-2018 team. And better than Fran’s first couple teams. Unclear whether we’re on the same level as the tourney teams though.

The team showed some stuff in the second half tonight. We will know a lot more after Friday
 
I was weary heading into tonight and it wasn't helped when I heard Owen was out. But I felt they played well tonight. Fran got on them at the appropriate times and the team responded.

Absolutely loved what Traore showed tonight. Hell even Mulvey surprised me.

Excited to see them in Moline and see if the second half carries over.
 
Oh it’s long past time to start over. Year 15 of exact same movie ending. The majority of fans recognize Fran will never elevate the program. THIS is Iowa basketball and will continue to be as long as he is here.

I know many, many Hawk fans in Des Moines. I used to be a part of the Polk County I-Club board … I’ve been a diehard Iowa fan since I was 10 … so for about 44 years of fandom … I can tell you … fans simply don’t care to watch or attend … I’d say 100 percent of my Hawk friends say: they will either record the game and skip through, do a quick drive-by check in …. Or, they simply don’t watch. We don’t even talk about the men’s team. None of my close Hawk friends even think about driving to Iowa City for a game.

Man- back in the day Iowa basketball was a hot ticket and program. Now, it’s more of an afterthought. I said last year fan apathy will be very evident this year and will continue to worsen.

There are no excuses for this staff and state of the program. Zero. Even diehards can’t convince anyone the state of the program is healthy and headed in the right direction … it will never happen with Fran as coach ….
Sounds a lot like Hawkeye football. Beth inherited a mess, and has to take steps to fix it.
 
This team is better than the 2017-2018 team. And better than Fran’s first couple teams. Unclear whether we’re on the same level as the tourney teams though.

The team showed some stuff in the second half tonight. We will know a lot more after Friday
First half was rough. First part of the 2nd half looked so much better.
 
Average paid attendance first 3 games is an average of 7,871. Does the TV money make attendance irrelevant?

Lot of new players, sure they are just trying to figure out who can play.
 
umm...question their defending skills all you like; but to say they couldn't create is just incorrect. Bohannon holds the school record for assists, and CMac holds the mark for assist-to-turnover ration - i forget his assist totals.
Yea. If we all played for seven years of basketball at a school I’d hope we all had the school record for assists. Yes they both could pass to an open Luka or Keegan or an open guy for three. They weren’t setting up guys for easy buckets by breaking down the defense, they couldn’t get into the lane and collapse the defense. If you can’t see that, then you don’t know basketball. 🤷‍♂️
 
Sorry, but if you're seriously going to try to argue that Jordan and Connor weren't very effective at running the offense at Iowa, you're just making fun of yourself.
Against any team with decent guard play, Connor and JBo were extremely ineffective at running the offense at Iowa. Case in point Oregon and Richmond in the NCAA tourney. Those guard courts ran circles around us.
 
Against any team with decent guard play, Connor and JBo were extremely ineffective at running the offense at Iowa. Case in point Oregon and Richmond in the NCAA tourney. Those guard courts ran circles around us.
Offense wasn’t the problem against Oregon; defense was.

Against Richmond we had the worst shooting performance of the season.
 
Yea. If we all played for seven years of basketball at a school I’d hope we all had the school record for assists. Yes they both could pass to an open Luka or Keegan or an open guy for three. They weren’t setting up guys for easy buckets by breaking down the defense, they couldn’t get into the lane and collapse the defense. If you can’t see that, then you don’t know basketball. 🤷‍♂️
Exactly my point when I said all assists are not created equally.
There is a big difference between a post pass to a scoring machine like Garza and breaking down a D off the dribble.
Bohannon was a great deep shooter. He was also way too slow for a B1G guard. That he was able to shoot enough volume and make as many as he did was quite an accomplishment. And fortunately for him he played for a coach that doesn't give a sh!t about defense. He was in the right spot for the skills he had.
 
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Exactly my point when I said all assists are not created equally.
There is a big difference between a post pass to a scoring machine like Garza and breaking down a D off the dribble.
Bohannon was a great deep shooter. He was also way too slow for a B1G guard. That he was able to shoot enough volume and make as many as he did was quite an accomplishment. And fortunately for him he played for a coach that doesn't give a sh!t about defense. He was in the right spot for the skills he had.
You seem to think post-entry passes are simple things; even tho opposing defenses would key on Garza.

Agree to disagree.
 

Try again. We shot 34%, 20% from 3 that game.

They only scored 67.

Terrible offense last night.... Yet defense closed out the last 3 mins against WSU.

Both things were true for that Richmond game.... My gosh we have PTSD as Iowa fans when it comes to tournament CLUNKERS. That team felt like one that could make a run.
 
Lot of it was Garza and Fran has a good/great offense. Bohannon hold records due to being a good player and playing a lot of games.

Connor 5.45 assists per 40 minutes
Bohannon 5.35 assists per 40 minutes
Perkins 4.59 assists per 40 minutes

Harding 10 assists per 40 minutes and a better Assist/Turnover ratio than all 3 I’m just going o
P
 
My issue with the Iowa MBB program right now is that there's just so little excitement.

Usually, at the start of a season, you want to have new reasons for hope. Maybe it's a returning starter who has upped his game and looks great in the exhibition games. Maybe it's a bench guy from last year who looks like he's going to be a strong contributor. Maybe it's a newcomer, who looks like he's going to be a big-time player for you. Maybe it's a recruit you have committed, who looks like he has the potential to be a star when he arrives.

Right now, Iowa has very little of that. Sure, the big 3 (Payton, Dix, and Freeman) look pretty good, and I am happy about that. Among new contributors, the only guy who's really shown much is Pryce Sandfort, which again, is nice ... but doesn't really feel like the type of impact that turns us into a Sweet 16 team. Our point guards -- Harding and Thelwell -- have both had moments, but neither look like guys who are ready to help the team make it to the next level. Dembele has shown no improvement. Traore has been hurt. Koch seems OK, but just that ... "OK." It doesn't look like Tadjo is even going to see the court much this year.

In short, I don't necessarily think the team looks awful, I just don't see much to be excited about. Maybe we're a bubble team. Cool.

As a contrast, take a look at the women's team. You just lost a generational player and a historic senior class from the year before. But in just a couple of games, you see numerous things that give reason for optimism and make me want to watch to see how the season unfolds. Lucy Olsen looks like a star in the making. Addie O'Grady just recorded a career-high against a solid Virginia Tech game. Hannah Stuelke's game looks to be evolving nicely as she adapts to a new role. The freshman class, including Teagan Mallegni, Taylor Stremlow, Ava Heiden, and Callie Levin, clearly has several members who can contribute this year, and potentially be stars down the road. Looking ahead, you have players like Aaliyah Guyton returning from injury later this year and recruits like Addie Deal and Layla Hays joining the team next fall, who give you hope for the future.

In terms of "reasons to be excited," there is a chasm of difference between the two programs.

And, to be clear, I think Fran has had a solid tenure at Iowa. He deserves credit for consistently putting Iowa in a position to finish in the top half of the conference and qualify for post-season play. That's not something that should be dismissed. But an equally notable part of his record is that we've never reached the second weekend of the tournament. And I'll also note that I don't think Fran has always represented the university in a positive manner with some of his sideline antics. I know that bothers some folks more than others, and that's OK, but I've never been a fan.

To everything, there is a season, and I join others in wondering if Fran's season at Iowa is nearing an end. We probably ought to see how the season plays out, but it just feels like it might be time to turn the page. Following a sports team is supposed to be exciting, but the Iowa men's basketball team has grown stale. At least for me.
So, to follow up on my own post from a few days ago …

I lamented that I didn’t see much to be excited about in regard to the men’s basketball team. But against that backdrop, I must say the last two games have improved my outlook. I’m still not expecting a Sweet 16 run or anything, but between some nice performances from our returning vets, and some promising contributions from some of our new/younger guys, I see more to be excited about than I did a week ago.

I stand by my agreement that the Fran era may be close to its end, for better or for worse. But I did want to acknowledge that my outlook on the upcoming season is on the upswing. I look forward to seeing how the season progresses.
 
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