Jada Gyamfi talent?

[chaneccooms]

That’s fine, but he made some baseless assumptions and the truest thing he said is that we ALL have presuppositions, him included.
…
I’m the poster child for admitting my failings and that we all have biases and indoctrinated feelings about things and people. He is right, however most won’t admit it and he is one of them.

Honestly, your posts don’t even make sense.

In the post above you said that I admitted I have preconceived notions (which I did) and then a few lines later you say I refuse to admit I have preconceived notions. Huh?

You get so flustered about someone asking you to analyze your own biases that you lose all ability to apply basic reasoning. You seem very emotionally fragile.

 

[cmhawks99]

Honestly, your posts don’t even make sense.

In the post above you said that I admitted I have preconceived notions (which I did) and then a few lines later you say I refuse to admit I have preconceived notions. Huh?

You get so flustered about someone asking you to analyze your own biases that you lose all ability to apply basic reasoning. You seem very emotionally fragile.

No…if I said you admitted it, (you didn’t) I mistyped. I don’t need to be told anything from a message board poster who made a poor assumption. Apparently and I’m literally shocked by this, but apparently if I’d said this about a white girl, that she didn’t “care” enough (because that’s what I suggested) you’d have danced on by. This is 100% on you.

I never suggested she was lazy, that was on you, and her being black was irrelevant, except to you.

That’s a dangerous path to navigate and I’m not going to allow, again a message board poster, to read some made up bullshit into my thoughts….

It’s as simple as that 🤷‍♂️

Jada being black doesn’t make her a good basketball player nor an impassioned one. Again, that was on you. I never for one second thought “oh gee, she’s black, I better think of all the angles, that people could misinterpret What I say”

That’s a sad ass world and I’m a lover of people. I’m not going to allow a stranger to tell “me” what I was saying…

Carry on…I don’t think she is a passionate basketballer

 

[chaneccooms]

You wrote:

“I’m the poster child for admitting my failings and that we all have biases and indoctrinated feelings about things and people.”

This is so laughably untrue. If you really had done *any* of the work, you would know that calling a Black athlete talented but unmotivated is one of the quintessential examples of unconscious bias. Professor Kendi even refers to it specifically in How to be an Antiracist. If you really want to be the “poster child” you claim to be, you need to read it. Here’s a link.

 

[chuck285]

Come on girls, get along!!

 

[amahawk]

If she is happy with her role, so be it.

 

[Bishop_71]

Ps…. Let me know when you get past those implicit biases.. I/E: you never will, and your rush to judgment proves that it’s human nature. We are judgmental, shitty, selfish, opportunistic clods.

You could’ve gone 50 ways with this conversation and this is the direction you went, proving… And I do love hypocrisy and irony… Wait for it… Your biased 😎

Jada is really cute. I'm a very left leaning guy but so used to Jada that she's just another hawk who happens to be a cutie. I thought Hannah had a game that she lacked her normal close outs and defense. I'm guessing illness rather than laziness

 

[cmhawks99]

You wrote:

“I’m the poster child for admitting my failings and that we all have biases and indoctrinated feelings about things and people.”

This is so laughably untrue. If you really had done *any* of the work, you would know that calling a Black athlete talented but unmotivated is one of the quintessential examples of unconscious bias. Professor Kendi even refers to it specifically in How to be an Antiracist. If you really want to be the “poster child” you claim to be, you need to read it. Here’s a link.

Here let me add more…I think Taylor* edit….McCabe is only interested in shooting 3s and disinterested in improving the rest of her game or at least dedicated anyway. As a result it keeps her from playing extended minutes…shoot more racism😔

Oh wait, she’s white…I can say whatever.

Nope not playing that game. Sorry

 

[wondergrape]

Here let me add more…I think Tanner McCabe is only interested in shooting 3s and disinterested in improving the rest of her game or at least dedicated anyway. As a result it’s keeps her from playing extended minutes…shoot more racism😔

Oh wait, she’s white…I can say whatever.

Nope not playing that game. Sorry

Might be time for another break. You seem…elevated.

 

[cmhawks99]

Jada is really cute. I'm a very left leaning guy but so used to Jada that she's just another hawk who happens to be a cutie. I thought Hannah had a game that she lacked her normal close outs and defense. I'm guessing illness rather than laziness

Hannah is anything but lazy, and I’m very practical and middle of the road. I’m not being bullied by hard left stupidity anymore.

It is what it is…and I think it’s beginning to become obvious even to the media finally. If I have to look at the color or gender of who I’m talking to and change what I say (obviously there are exceptions) & vet what I say. That is the very definition of treating people “different”

I try to use good sound moral teaching, I/e: the Bible to discern my actions. Nothing I said about Jada is out of line.

 

[cmhawks99]

Might be time for another break. You seem…elevated.

😂 and accurate 🤷‍♂️dumb is dumb

 

[FranklinHawk]

Here let me add more…I think Tanner McCabe is only interested in shooting 3s and disinterested in improving the rest of her game or at least dedicated anyway. As a result it’s keeps her from playing extended minutes…shoot more racism😔

Oh wait, she’s white…I can say whatever.

Nope not playing that game. Sorry

Is that Taylor's brother?

 

[cmhawks99]

Is that Taylor's brother?

😂 good stuff & good catch

 

[cmhawks99]

What does being a "Black" player have to do with someone questioning work ethic? Plenty of people have called Riley Mulvey unmotivated and lazy but I don't see anyone jumping up and down protesting that. Stop seeing racism in everything or maybe that's just the way you want to view the world. It's easier that way to blame someone else for failure.

Keep in mind Ryans not black & doesn’t need protection 😜

 

[ChiPackHawk]

@chaneccooms it IS funny. You need to keep up your reading friend you made a leap to judgment about my intent, and that makes you a part of the system.

PS… sorry I can’t help myself. I do love being a sarcastic jackass, without any “real evidence”

PPS… I like Gymafi and I actually do think she has some athleticism and quickness. I’ve often wondered why she didn’t play more. You have the opinion she doesn’t, but from personal experience if I had a $10 bill for every Iowa fan that told me some player wasnt athletic that went on to run electric agility times I’d have a shit ton of money. I imagine you’re just more the same.

Go back to your hole


😂😂😂😂

You just said she has athleticism - how very racist of you!

 

[Rocket_Fran]

Without commenting on a single other aspect of a very complex, emotional and volatile iissue brought up here- one should be careful *how much* weight one puts into Xendi's book. Some people treat it as behavioral and social psychological gospel. It's isn't. He's a historian or anthropologist. It should be treated as thought-provoking and a good cause for self reflection into one's own actions, both realized and unrealized as it relates to race. I do not question the ethics or morals behind Xendi's stated mission or goals. I take those as given by the author himself.

However, elevating that book into something more than that is very unwise. I sympathize or flatly agree with many of his notions. Despite this, he flatly overreaches and overrsimplifies only when it's convenient which highlights a very dogmatic (a less kind interpretation could use a adjective like narcissitic or egocentric too commonly found in post-docs in the non-STEM/philosophy variety) framing of both historical and contemporary racial issues. His following defensiveness and dogmatism in resposne to good-faith rational critiques of his positions only highlights the counter-productive nature of those aspects of his book.

Would america be better if every single person read that book? Yes. Would America be worse if every single person who did read the book took it 100% on face value? Yes. To quote one of my favorite fictional philosophers, "that's all i have to say about that."

 

[cmhawks99]

Without commenting on a single other aspect of a very complex, emotional and volatile iissue brought up here- one should be careful *how much* weight one puts into Xendi's book. Some people treat it as behavioral and social psychological gospel. It's isn't. He's a historian or anthropologist. It should be treated as thought-provoking and a good cause for self reflection into one's own actions, both realized and unrealized as it relates to race. I do not question the ethics or morals behind Xendi's stated mission or goals. I take those as given by the author himself.

However, elevating that book into something more than that is very unwise. I sympathize or flatly agree with many of his notions. Despite this, he flatly overreaches and overrsimplifies only when it's convenient which highlights a very dogmatic (a less kind interpretation could use a adjective like narcissitic or egocentric too commonly found in post-docs in the non-STEM/philosophy variety) framing of both historical and contemporary racial issues. His following defensiveness and dogmatism in resposne to good-faith rational critiques of his positions only highlights the counter-productive nature of those aspects of his book.

Would america be better if every single person read that book? Yes. Would America be worse if every single person who did read the book took it 100% on face value? Yes. To quote one of my favorite fictional philosophers, "that's all i have to say about that."

Forest was a wise man & your rhetoric here was terrific. I don’t know Xendi but I’m not surprised nor upset about his premise. But the application of it broadly is at best disingenuous and at worse wildly misplaced, and deceitful at that. It suggests we operate out of “one place” all the time & human beings are much more complex than that.

To suggest otherwise would be absolutely asinine.

As was the suggestion by my friend

 

[chaneccooms]

Without commenting on a single other aspect of a very complex, emotional and volatile iissue brought up here- one should be careful *how much* weight one puts into Xendi's book. Some people treat it as behavioral and social psychological gospel. It's isn't. He's a historian or anthropologist. It should be treated as thought-provoking and a good cause for self reflection into one's own actions, both realized and unrealized as it relates to race. I do not question the ethics or morals behind Xendi's stated mission or goals. I take those as given by the author himself.

However, elevating that book into something more than that is very unwise. I sympathize or flatly agree with many of his notions. Despite this, he flatly overreaches and overrsimplifies only when it's convenient which highlights a very dogmatic (a less kind interpretation could use a adjective like narcissitic or egocentric too commonly found in post-docs in the non-STEM/philosophy variety) framing of both historical and contemporary racial issues. His following defensiveness and dogmatism in resposne to good-faith rational critiques of his positions only highlights the counter-productive nature of those aspects of his book.

Would america be better if every single person read that book? Yes. Would America be worse if every single person who did read the book took it 100% on face value? Yes. To quote one of my favorite fictional philosophers, "that's all i have to say about that."

Do you copy and paste this every time an author you don’t agree with comes up? I ask because you thinking his name is “Xendi” means you’re not actually familiar with him.

 

[chaneccooms]

I’m not being bullied by hard left stupidity anymore.

Bullied!? 🤣 🤣 🤣 🤣 🤣

Again I have to wonder: Why are you so fragile? I thought you were the “poster child” for questioning your preconceived notions. Anyone genuinely wanting to be honest with themself about their biases invites inquiry and critique from others.

The amount of time I spend with Black people vs time I spend with all other ethnic groups combined is about 20-to-1. The issues of stereotypes and bias come up all the time. I don’t get hyper-defensive and throw a hissy fit when it comes up, but instead hear people out and work to take seriously their input.

Becoming apoplectic and resorting to childish name-calling indicates a very insecure person who’s terrified of having to admit he might not be right.

 

[cmhawks99]

Bullied!? 🤣 🤣 🤣 🤣 🤣

Again I have to wonder: Why are you so fragile? I thought you were the “poster child” for questioning your preconceived notions. Anyone genuinely wanting to be honest with themself about their biases invites inquiry and critique from others.

The amount of time I spend with Black people vs time I spend with all other ethnic groups combined is about 20-to-1. The issues of stereotypes and bias come up all the time. I don’t get hyper-defensive and throw a hissy fit when it comes up, but instead hear people out and work to take seriously their input.

Becoming apoplectic and resorting to childish name-calling indicates a very insecure person who’s terrified of having to admit he might not be right.

Ok…swung and missed here unfortunately

 

[wondergrape]

Ok…swung and missed here unfortunately

Childish

 

[cmhawks99]

Childish

Sigh…ok

 

[LarryMullenJr.]

This is moronic and the book Cooms referenced is a laughable piece of fire starter. A total joke on paper.

 

[cmhawks99]

Bullied!? 🤣 🤣 🤣 🤣 🤣

Again I have to wonder: Why are you so fragile? I thought you were the “poster child” for questioning your preconceived notions. Anyone genuinely wanting to be honest with themself about their biases invites inquiry and critique from others.

The amount of time I spend with Black people vs time I spend with all other ethnic groups combined is about 20-to-1. The issues of stereotypes and bias come up all the time. I don’t get hyper-defensive and throw a hissy fit when it comes up, but instead hear people out and work to take seriously their input.

Becoming apoplectic and resorting to childish name-calling indicates a very insecure person who’s terrified of having to admit he might not be right.

You know…when I want to be an ass, I just choose to be an ass. It’s not my natural state, but when I’m being a child, I literally don’t care if I’m called that. That’s my intent 🤷‍♂️

But I’m sitting here chilling, and I’m not gonna go into a lengthy diatribe about who I am, who I really wanna be and how seriously I take loving people up.

I’ll just say this. What you’re trying to say is not lost on me. It’s accurate, it does of course happen. Sometimes maliciously, sometimes unconsciously. I’m not too dumb to comprehend unconscious bias. It affected your assessment of me 🤷‍♂️

I’m just not going to allow people at this point in my life to arbitrarily lump me in with “their” bias.

I don’t care what you think, nor do I think poorly of Jada. There are literally 1000s maybe millions of people capable of being great at things, but they have to be passionate about it. Color has nothing to do with it. That’s why you pick things to do that you are passionate about! She’s not lazy. Lazy people don’t keep going to hard ass practices, half ass it and stay on a team.

I think the same thing about McCabe. She just happens to shoot well, and has the ability to do more…I really don’t know why she doesn’t.

As for Hannah, I don’t know what was said, but I’d be more inclined to think they are stupid, than unconsciously biased. Lots of those in here…

If you like to “listen” and understand. I’d have put more effort into gauging intent…

I’m done here now…you believe what you want.

I’m am sorry for calling you an idiot 😔

 

[MitchLL]

This thread, or what it's become, is wrestling forum cesspool worthy.

 

[chaneccooms]

I appreciate your apology, @cmhawks99. Thank you.

I was more caustic in my critique than was appropriate. I recently found out that a Black girl whose happiness is very important to me was being mistreated by one of her white teachers in school because that teacher just assumed she just didn't care about doing well academically. Black girls and women have to deal with disrespectful garbage like this every day of their life. It bothers me tremendously.

I don't think you had any malicious intent. I do think it's healthy for all us - myself included - to consider why we ask the questions or make the statements we do. However, it was wrong for me to turn it into an attack of you. I apologize for that.

 

[cmhawks99]

I appreciate your apology, @cmhawks99. Thank you.

I was more caustic in my critique than was appropriate. I recently found out that a Black girl whose happiness is very important to me was being mistreated by one of her white teachers in school because that teacher just assumed she just didn't care about doing well academically. Black girls and women have to deal with disrespectful garbage like this every day of their life. It bothers me tremendously.

I don't think you had any malicious intent. I do think it's healthy for all us - myself included - to consider why we ask the questions or make the statements we do. However, it was wrong for me to turn it into an attack of you. I apologize for that.

I concur….I do have bias. And I could have approached you with more care. I generally do. I have been away from here for sometime and I only dropped in honestly because I like the WBB forum and I AM irritated by our football teams average season and I decided I’d jack with the continual naysayers while here. Ironically because I know how hard we all struggle. And fans have become quite boorish.

You got caught up in my pettiness & again I’m sorry, for that. I shouldn’t do it at all, but you didn’t deserve it.

Interestingly, enough because of my appreciation for the struggle we all have, but especially women and other ethnicities. I am generally over the top (sometimes embarrassingly so ) in trying to be kind and appreciative of black people. I wish I wouldn’t. It comes from a good place but it irks me.

As a youngster in the 80s the movie Mississippi Burning had a profound effect on me. I hate abuse of all kinds, but that kind bothers me a great deal.

However as I’ve aged and because I fancy myself fair (that’s an every day, crucify the flesh & pick up your Cross burden, right? ) I can sometimes get haughty when I know my intent. I also have gotten weary of the over use of racism & the continual parsing of rhetoric & intent.

However I try to remind myself that life hasnt been fair, for minorities in many instances and I need to be bigger than that. After all even though I’ve struggled, I’m still not a woman & I'm also not black

That didn’t happen here. My point remains, but I could have done better.

Now to anyone else ready to swoop in and call me out about my attitude toward the people constantly complaining about a damn sporting event. It is indeed useless and wasteful for me to antagonize you.

But as my most favorite actor of all time said in one of my most favorite movies “The Equalizer” I’ve made a special exception for you.

Whining and crying about a coach who has done nothing but win a shit ton of football games is one of the most wasteful, out of place & ridiculous things we do as human beings. And your not going to like the next coach any better. It’s who you are 🤷‍♂️

Sorry for this soliloquy and I’m also exceptionally Sorry to find out about the young lady you referenced. People are stupid.

I actually struggle with some internal things myself and sometimes motivation is an intensely personal thing. I get the struggle to be “on” everyday.

 

[FrankBurns00]

Listening to one the podcasts that she did, she was talking about her work in the summer. Jada mentioned that she was limited with what she could do because of "the way my knees are."

I took that to mean that she has tendinitis in both knees which would rob her of the quickness she displayed when I saw her in high school. The bad thing about tendinitis is that the more you do, the worse it gets. Surgery can be an option, but is no guarantee to fix it.

 

[cmhawks99]

Listening to one the podcasts that she did, she was talking about her work in the summer. Jada mentioned that she was limited with what she could do because of "the way my knees are."

I took that to mean that she has tendinitis in both knees which would rob her of the quickness she displayed when I saw her in high school. The bad thing about tendinitis is that the more you do, the worse it gets. Surgery can be an option, but is no guarantee to fix it.

Hmmmm, that’s a new twist. Once again I’m reminded, we really don’t know what is going on in the lives of others.

A good lesson for me this morning @chaneccooms

 

[kceasthawk]

Without commenting on a single other aspect of a very complex, emotional and volatile iissue brought up here- one should be careful *how much* weight one puts into Xendi's book. Some people treat it as behavioral and social psychological gospel. It's isn't. He's a historian or anthropologist. It should be treated as thought-provoking and a good cause for self reflection into one's own actions, both realized and unrealized as it relates to race. I do not question the ethics or morals behind Xendi's stated mission or goals. I take those as given by the author himself.

However, elevating that book into something more than that is very unwise. I sympathize or flatly agree with many of his notions. Despite this, he flatly overreaches and overrsimplifies only when it's convenient which highlights a very dogmatic (a less kind interpretation could use a adjective like narcissitic or egocentric too commonly found in post-docs in the non-STEM/philosophy variety) framing of both historical and contemporary racial issues. His following defensiveness and dogmatism in resposne to good-faith rational critiques of his positions only highlights the counter-productive nature of those aspects of his book.

Would america be better if every single person read that book? Yes. Would America be worse if every single person who did read the book took it 100% on face value? Yes. To quote one of my favorite fictional philosophers, "that's all i have to say about that."

And may I say, "Thank you" Forest Gump.....

 

[kceasthawk]

You wrote:

“I’m the poster child for admitting my failings and that we all have biases and indoctrinated feelings about things and people.”

This is so laughably untrue. If you really had done *any* of the work, you would know that calling a Black athlete talented but unmotivated is one of the quintessential examples of unconscious bias. Professor Kendi even refers to it specifically in How to be an Antiracist. If you really want to be the “poster child” you claim to be, you need to read it. Here’s a link.

I'm in no way getting in the middle of this, but I'd say that in this case, your statement that "calling a black athlete talented but unmotivated is one of the quintessential examples of unconscious bias" is off base, and a harmful addition to the conversation. I don't remember him saying that black girl is unmotivated. Its quite possible that he never thought of Jada as "a black player" until you brought that into the conversation. I don't remember anyone else mentioning her skin tone before that either. I understand what "unconscious bias " means but don't think it needed to be brought up. If we were making the same post with the same comments about AJ Edinger would this need to be an issue?

 

[Hans81]

Come on girls, get along!!

Exactly…all this back & forth race talk gets tiresome.

 

[ZachJump]

I'm not trying to be rude, but saying her being Black never entered your mind is just not accurate. Google "I don't see color" to learn more about the mounds of research that have been done in this area. We all see color and we all form opinions based on it in one way or another, whether we want to admit it or not.

While it may not have been your intent, you perpetuated a stereotype that Black players have superior talent and if they aren't successful on the court, it must be because of a lack of effort. How to be an Antiracist by Ibram X. Kendi is a great book on how our society perpetuates stereotypes if you'd like to learn more.

LOL at "Not sure if you're black nor do I care..." Obviously you care, or you wouldn't have mentioned it. While you're ask yourself why you questioned the work effort of a Black player without any evidence for doing so, ask yourself why it matters if I'm Black or not.

The point isn't about whether being overrated is being better than not having desire. Being antiracist isn't about automatically holding BIPOC people in high regard. It's about working to be honest about people in a way that seeks to strip away the implicit biases we all hold.

Gyamfi just isn't that good. In her time at Iowa, when has she made a play on the court that made you think, "Wow, she's really talented" or "Gosh, she sure is athletic." There are players all the time whose abilities just don't translate at the next level. Look at all the busts there are in the NBA draft, despite millions and millions being put into scouting. Gyamfi is a player who just doesn't have the athletic ability or talent to earn a lot of minutes at the Big Ten level. It's just that simple.

You got issues…I mean damn I learned in first grade that black is not a color.

 

[cmhawks99]

I'm in no way getting in the middle of this, but I'd say that in this case, your statement that "calling a black athlete talented but unmotivated is one of the quintessential examples of unconscious bias" is off base, and a harmful addition to the conversation. I don't remember him saying that black girl is unmotivated. Its quite possible that he never thought of Jada as "a black player" until you brought that into the conversation. I don't remember anyone else mentioning her skin tone before that either. I understand what "unconscious bias " means but don't think it needed to be brought up. If we were making the same post with the same comments about AJ Edinger would this need to be an issue?

Thanks for your support. With that said we did clear the air 😊

 

[kceasthawk]

Thanks for your support. With that said we did clear the air 😊

With respect to you both, I really wasn't trying to take either side other to say that we'd all be better off if people would just stop trying to interject race into every conversation.

 

[wondergrape]

With respect to you both, I really wasn't trying to take either side other to say that we'd all be better off if people would just stop trying to interject race into every conversation.

This is the fundamental struggle of our times and culture. Many people think it is imperative to talk about race. Many people never want to talk about race. Society has reached a worrisome impasse.