So, you're admitting that Trump still wouldn't have focused on better mitigation methods to possibly save American lives?
Journalist spikes “Toldja So Football” on Wuhan Lab deniers
- Thread starter FAUlty Gator
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I don’t think it was possible for us to do much to stop the spread in a country the size and composition of ours. It’s pretty clear now that states with drastic mitigation efforts didn’t fare any better than other states that were basically open.
But said another way, knowing the origin of the virus doesn’t necessarily change the mitigation approach but it damn sure matters for future prevention and policy.
I think if Trump was saying this was a deadly virus bio-engineered by the Chinese and escaped to wreak havoc on the world instead of saying it was a media hoax you would have seen more mitigation efforts across the spectrum in this country.
He was ridiculed for it because it was only a partial ban on China, put the focus solely on them, and did nothing to restrict travel from other countries. And also because he took what little time that travel ban potentially bought us and did nothing with it domestically to prepare the US for what was coming. I honestly think Trump thought the ban by itself was enough.
Maybe true but if you think he was ridiculed because it was only a partial ban on China and not a “complete ban” then imagine the hell that would have been raised for him doing that
I can’t speak for others but I ridiculed him for it because the travel ban, whether partial or broader, was never going to stop a pandemic, and because he did very little beyond that for weeks afterwards.
The problem is hindsight is always 20/20 and anything that trump did whether right or wrong even as we look at it with our knowledge today was ridiculed. Nothing he could have done would have made everyone happy and even today as we learn more and more about the start of this through Fauci’s emails. Was trump right about some things....he was, but still the hatred for him clouds responses to this day
I was saying this at the time, not hindsight. The point I’m trying to make is that outside of the travel ban, Trump did nothing else beyond repeatedly downplayed the pandemic and wasted what time that China ban bought us.
Fauci lied about masks. He told people there was no point in anyone wearing them. He later admitted that wasn't true and that he told people not to wear them because he feared a shortage of masks for healthcare workers. Having a good reason for lying doesn't magically make the lie true. There is no way of knowing how many sick people went without a mask and how many other people they infected.
He later admitted he "adjusted" what would be need for herd immunity based on what he thought the general public would be willing to accept, not on any actual date. Again, he might have had a perfectly valid reason for lying, but he still lied.
Those are just the lies he has admitted to.
Disagree 100%. Those who took it seriously without any confirmation of the origin would still have been the only ones to do so. The vast majority of those who didn't got their cues from Trump and would have continued to do that.
Seriously?,.. I suspect that if Trump had pushed hard with this line the media would have tagged him as a racist and our mitigation efforts wouldn't have changed in the least.
He was criticized as racist for having any travel ban directed at a region of China which was known to have the outbreak. Imagine how he would have been attacked if it was a total ban on Chinese travel. As for banning travel from other countries, we did that as early as anyone else. Trump is an asshat, but are you seriously criticizing him for not predicting the future and banning travel before other western nations did?
You’re not reading my posts. I’m criticizing him for not doing anything else besides the travel ban. That was at best a short-term fix, because by then there were already cases being reported outside China.
The travel ban itself wasn’t racist, it was how Trump portrayed it and the virus as the China virus, the Kung Flu, and how he sought to blame China for everything to deflect from his otherwise lack of action.
no one could have stopped the virus from spreading, but there are so many things he could have done differently to prepare for the outbreak at home, or get all states on the same page, etc. he did none of that.
Not wrong per se, but when you are in major need of any and all information regarding the outbreak, telling the Chinese PUBLICLY that they’re lying, they’re to blame for everything going on, etc., is probably not the best way to secure their cooperation. Which, like or not, is needed - both to get any and all data you can at the time to make better decisions at home regarding what measures you can take; and afterwards when we can do a thorough investigation into what happened, the origin of the virus, how the outbreak began, and so on. All of which was made more difficult by Trump publicly turning them into the bogeyman for the American public to blame.
And I’m not trying to sound like I’m defending China here. Obviously they were doing their utmost to deflect and obstruct what happened. To some extent, we’ll likely never know exactly what happened. But at a time when information was our most needed resource to fight a pandemic, by publicly backing China into a corner, he made it a lot harder for us to get what we needed.
I read your posts. You started with "He was ridiculed for it because it was only a partial ban on China, put the focus solely on them, and did nothing to restrict travel from other countries." That is the portion is was addressing.
I personally think Trump is an asshat. I just also think he gets blamed for stuff that he shouldn't be blamed for, and doesn't get credit for stuff that he deserves some credit for. The opposites of those two are also true (takes credit when not deserved, and ducks blame when it is deserved). I don't think he deserves credit for the development timeline of the vaccines, just as I don't think Biden deserves credit for ramping up vaccinations.
I don't personally think that any other person as President would have had a big impact on how many in the U.S. got sick or died. As has been seen, the virus is going to do what the virus does. Americans are what they are...stubbornly resistant to being told what to do...and fat. Our nation is fat and unhealthy. Could we have done better? Of course, but not drastically better, and at a bigger economic cost. I personally believe that many people want to blame Trump as if he somehow caused the virus or most of the deaths in this country, but they really have convinced themselves of that because they hate him, not because it is true. It is undeniable that his messaging on the pandemic could have been much much better. He says stupid shit, and in stupid ways. It is also undeniable that many in the media and those who hate him because of politics sought to label his every move as racist, moronic, etc., when they really weren't. His statements have always been intentionally twisted, taken out of context, or intentionally misquoted. It is what it is.
China won’t help regardless of what anyone says or does.
I think you are forgetting that Trump blamed China when China started using their propaganda machine to publicly blame the U.S. for the pandemic. They had government officials alleging that the virus originated in the U.S. and was brought to Wuhan by a female American service member. That is when Trump started labeling it the China virus. Should he have handled it more maturely and with a more nuanced approach? Absolutely, but we are talking about Trump.
to some extent I agree, but I don’t think it can be understated how much it hurt to have virtually every state pulling in different directions, bidding against each other for supplies, having some states get publicly undermined by Trump and others got praised. I do disagree that a different president couldn’t have done better. Trump did the absolute minimum, and often enough did so after intense pressure…and then undermined it anyways.
Again, not defending the Chinese response here. But a better politician would have kept his public comments innocuous and worked on China behind the scenes. It’s even bet who hates being embarrassed more, Trump or the Chinese.
I didn't say a different president couldn't have done better (messaging, logistics, etc.). I said I don't personally think that any other person as President would have had a big impact on how many in the U.S. got sick or died. We could have reduced deaths quite a bit by better protecting the elderly and keeping the virus out of long term care facilities as much as possible. I don't believe that was a federal issue, but instead a states issue. I'm not aware of a lot of death happening because of a lack of medical equipment or supplies. That was the worry, but I don't think that really materialized. If it did, it was very early in the pandemic in New York, and that isn't on the President IMO.
There absolutely was a shortage of some supplies, like the N95 mask, that could have helped mitigation efforts. Fauci initially said masks weren’t needed because he wanted what was available to first responders, not general public. That’s one of the “lies” cons like to bash him over.
We’ll obviously never know now, but I have a hard time believing a more coordinated effort could not have reduced the death toll, instead of leaving it up to the states and cities; what we got was really the worst possible way to react to a pandemic.
In a Feb. 5, 2020, email to a Team Obama health official, the virus guru wrote that masks were for infected people, and that “the typical mask you buy in a drug store is not really effective in keeping out the virus, which is small enough to pass through the material.”
I'm not sure what to do with these feelings.
- Duh! Of course this came from a Chinese lab and of course we should have been calling it the Chinese Virus
- Fauci is a lying little twat
- Trump is still an incompetent lying twat (but he was right in calling a spade a spade)
- Duh! Of course this came from a Chinese lab and of course we should have been calling it the Chinese Virus
- Fauci is a lying little twat
- Trump is still an incompetent lying twat (but he was right in calling a spade a spade)
Are there people who thought we should be wearing a mask to protect ourselves? From about week #2 of the mask mandate I thought folks could be walking around asymptomatic, therefore able to spread the disease. If everyone wore a mask, then it would help keep the potentially infected from passing the virus unknowingly to others. (while we waited for a vaccine)
Is someone saying (I haven't read through the emails) that we were told to wear a mask to protect US not THEM?
I'm still not sure what happened but it's clear that it needs to be investigated. I'll admit, I didn't believe the first reports. But that's simply because it was coming from unsubstantiated rumors from many of the same people that still believe Democrats are eating babies as a post dinner snack. Pretty sure if I bet against whatever they are saying I'll come out ahead in the long run. It's still irrelevant to the early US response and unless anyone is going to step up and do anything about it, it's still irrelevant now. I'm not holding my breath on anyone holding China accountable.
Curious. Where did that quote come from? The first sentence says it's not from an unbiased source.
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