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Kimberly Potter should not have been charged with a crime at all

mstp1992 said:
I like you as a poster, but you’re simply wrong on this specific topic (i.e., Kim Potter).
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Well, I think it's pretty clear the judge ALSO thinks the jury got it wrong.

First, she sentenced Potter to ONE THIRD the expected sentence!

Second, the judge, during sentencing, stated that Kimberly Potter drew a weapon, and I quote, "to protect a fellow officer on the other side of the vehicle who could have been dragged and seriously injured if the car were to speed away."

Hmmm, why would she bring this up, I wonder. Well, we all should know why. And @Hawkman98 has explained why use of force was appropriate, but several of you refuse to listen.

Everyone can watch for themselves here:


video.startribune.com

Judge Regina Chu hands down sentence for Kimberly Potter

Hennepin County District Judge Regina Chu called the sentence she gave Kimberly Potter "a significant downward departure" from state sentencing guidelines, adding that it was "the saddest case in my 20 years on the bench."
video.startribune.com video.startribune.com
 
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@Hawkman98 did you say that even if Potter had purposely fired her gun it would have been the appropriate use of force for the situation? If you did I missed it. Can you explain why you do or do not feel that way?
 
gohawks50 said:
@Hawkman98 did you say that even if Potter had purposely fired her gun it would have been the appropriate use of force for the situation? If you did I missed it. Can you explain why you do or do not feel that way?
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Just getting home from shift and going to bed. I’ll get back with you later today.
 
There was a CNA in Minnesota a couple of years ago who was charged with manslaughter (I think) when his improper use of a mechanical patient lift resulted in the death of a 100 year old. I don’t recall any hand wringing over the heavy penalty for that particular low income immigrant.
 
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mstp1992 said:
You really DON’T understand how the jury system works. Whether you agree with the outcome or not you were not there for the entire trial, nor did you participate in the discussions among the jury. They came to a unanimous conclusion and I’m not about to question them since I wasn’t involved.
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You've never questioned a verdict that you werent involved in?

That's a rhetorical question. We all know the answer.
 
JMNSHO said:
There was a CNA in Minnesota a couple of years ago who was charged with manslaughter (I think) when his improper use of a mechanical patient lift resulted in the death of a 100 year old. I don’t recall any hand wringing over the heavy penalty for that particular low income immigrant.
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Link
 
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The Tradition said:
I agree that she should be liable for wrongful death in a civil suit (along with her police department), but I disagree that it should be a criminal matter.

I don't know why ANYONE would want to be a cop in this day and age.
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How can you, as an employment professional, have this opinion, Trad?
She violated some policy here, if nothing more than the continuum of force guidelines.
You may sympathize with her abs her circumstances but Trad, for you to take this position professionally is really disappointing.
 
The Tradition said:
There was a time when the cops were considered the "good guys"...

Today? Not so much.
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Yup. During that time Romney was the Republican candidate for the presidency. Today? Still the same person but now hated by the same idiots who propped him up less than a decade ago. Times change.
 
FAUlty Gator said:
Yup. During that time Romney was the Republican candidate for the presidency. Today? Still the same person but now hated by the same idiots who propped him up less than a decade ago. Times change.
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The majority of police are good guys. The reason we know about cops behaving badly is because of body cams and everyone on the street carrying a video camera in their pocket. The bad ones make the news just like all professions. If you thought all teachers were like the ones that make the news everyone would assume we all are having sex with our students. I want those teachers prosecuted and removed from the profession. I would bet most police officers don't want people who abuse their power or are negligent to be officers either.
 
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Franisdaman said:
She did not haphazardly blast someone. And she was far from incompetent; the judge made that very clear when she made her sentencing ruling.

Use of force was necessary when Daunte Wright put that police officer's life in jeopardy. That police officer was in the car, of course, trying to prevent Daunte from driving off. Potter intended on using her taser but used her handgun instead. Many testified that using either the handgun or the taser would have been acceptable in that situation.

Daunte Wright had a VIOLENT HISTORY of shooting people in the head and car jacking people; he was wanted on a weapons charge. There was a restraining order out on him. Daunte Wright was obviously a very dangerous threat. And he was a dangerous threat to that police officer that day. But Daunte Wright didn't give a crap about anyone's life, especially a LEO's life. And Kim Potter responded, some testified appropriately, and ended the threat to the LEO's life.
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It was an absolutely botched arrest, and she was hella negligent and culpable. The arrest should have taken place at rear of car. Driver door should have been closed. With two officers handling one suspect, one of them should have been between the the getaway vehicle, and the suspect. All of this is law enforcement 101. He was not putting them in harms way by trying to run away. In fact, he successfully ran away after she haphazardly blasted him.
 
noStemsnoSTICKS said:
He was not putting them in harms way by trying to run away.
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100% wrong.

Daunte's Wright's reckless actions of resisting arrest and attempting to flee put everything into motion. Daunte Wright put a police officer's life at risk. Kim Potter responded with force, and rightfully so. And the judge agrees with me.

The judge, during sentencing, stated that Kimberly Potter drew a weapon, and I quote, "to protect a fellow officer on the other side of the vehicle who could have been dragged and seriously injured if the car were to speed away."

Everyone can watch for themselves here:


video.startribune.com

Judge Regina Chu hands down sentence for Kimberly Potter

Hennepin County District Judge Regina Chu called the sentence she gave Kimberly Potter "a significant downward departure" from state sentencing guidelines, adding that it was "the saddest case in my 20 years on the bench."
video.startribune.com video.startribune.com
 
Franisdaman said:
100% wrong.

Daunte's Wright's reckless actions of resisting arrest and attempting to flee put everything into motion. Daunte Wright put a police officer's life at risk. Kim Potter responded with force, and rightfully so. And the judge agrees with me.

The judge, during sentencing, stated that Kimberly Potter drew a weapon, and I quote, "to protect a fellow officer on the other side of the vehicle who could have been dragged and seriously injured if the car were to speed away."

Everyone can watch for themselves here:


video.startribune.com

Judge Regina Chu hands down sentence for Kimberly Potter

Hennepin County District Judge Regina Chu called the sentence she gave Kimberly Potter "a significant downward departure" from state sentencing guidelines, adding that it was "the saddest case in my 20 years on the bench."
video.startribune.com video.startribune.com
Click to expand...
I've seen the replay where she pulls her side arm and blasts him while he's in the drivers seat of the car. Then he drove away and didn't hurt anyone. The judge in this case agrees that Potter was grossly negligent and committed a crime. And for that the judge sent her ass to prison.
 
gohawks50 said:
@Hawkman98 did you say that even if Potter had purposely fired her gun it would have been the appropriate use of force for the situation? If you did I missed it. Can you explain why you do or do not feel that way?
Click to expand...
I'm not exactly sure what I said in the previous thread, but the use of deadly force states if you feel like your life or someone elses is in jeopardy of serious injury or death, you are allowed to use deadly force. If Potter could articulate that she felt her partner was in jeopardy she would have been justified in using deadly force. However in this case it appears she just screwed up. Obviously she went to grab her taser and grabbed her gun by mistake. If you are in a situation where deadly force was justified she should be pulling her weapon, not her taser.
 
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Hawkman98 said:
I'm not exactly sure what I said in the previous thread, but the use of deadly force states if you feel like your life or someone elses is in jeopardy of serious injury or death, you are allowed to use deadly force. If Potter could articulate that she felt her partner was in jeopardy she would have been justified in using deadly force. However in this case it appears she just screwed up. Obviously she went to grab her taser and grabbed her gun by mistake. If you are in a situation where deadly force was justified she should be pulling her weapon, not her taser.
Click to expand...
That's what I thought you had said previously. So in other words would you say Potter didn't believe the situation required deadly force?
 
Hawkman98 said:
It's hard to say what she was thinking, but she definitely intended to pull her taser and I'm not sure why you would do that if you thought it was a deadly force situation.
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One more thing, did @Franisdaman misrepresent your position about deadly force in this situation? Thanks for your time.

Franisdaman said:
Well, I think it's pretty clear the judge ALSO thinks the jury got it wrong.

First, she sentenced Potter to ONE THIRD the expected sentence!

Second, the judge, during sentencing, stated that Kimberly Potter drew a weapon, and I quote, "to protect a fellow officer on the other side of the vehicle who could have been dragged and seriously injured if the car were to speed away."

Hmmm, why would she bring this up, I wonder. Well, we all should know why. And @Hawkman98 has explained why use of force was appropriate, but several of you refuse to listen.

Everyone can watch for themselves here:


video.startribune.com

Judge Regina Chu hands down sentence for Kimberly Potter

Hennepin County District Judge Regina Chu called the sentence she gave Kimberly Potter "a significant downward departure" from state sentencing guidelines, adding that it was "the saddest case in my 20 years on the bench."
video.startribune.com video.startribune.com
Click to expand...
 
gohawks50 said:
One more thing, did @Franisdaman misrepresent your position about deadly force in this situation? Thanks for your time.
Click to expand...
I'm not sure about that one. Fran usually does his homework and I don't remember what I said in the previous post that he is referring to. The quote Fran posted from the judge seems to make it sound like she thought it was justified. I don't have all the facts that the judge had, I'm making my opinion based off of the quick video I watched. If Potter intended to shoot the driver because she thought deadly force was justified then that's a different story, but she intended to grab her taser which tells me she was thinking something differently.
 
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joelbc1 said:
How can you, as an employment professional, have this opinion, Trad?
She violated some policy here, if nothing more than the continuum of force guidelines.
You may sympathize with her abs her circumstances but Trad, for you to take this position professionally is really disappointing.
Click to expand...


She clearly didn't have enough training, heat of the moment or not, if she mistook her service firearm for the taser.
 
The Tradition said:
She clearly didn't have enough training, heat of the moment or not, if she mistook her service firearm for the taser.
Click to expand...
Not 100% true. When you're in the heat of the moment your brain makes you do some weird shit. Your mind can't keep up with what is going on and you end up making mistakes.
 
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Hawkman98 said:
I'm not sure about that one. Fran usually does his homework and I don't remember what I said in the previous post that he is referring to. The quote Fran posted from the judge seems to make it sound like she thought it was justified. I don't have all the facts that the judge had, I'm making my opinion based off of the quick video I watched. If Potter intended to shoot the driver because she thought deadly force was justified then that's a different story, but she intended to grab her taser which tells me she was thinking something differently.
Click to expand...
That's what I think as well. If Potter would have intended to use her gun she could argue that deadly force was necessary, but since she made it clear her intent to use her taser I don't believe she thought lives were in danger. The judge is sympathetic which I understand, but I don’t think the judge was contending that the jury came to the wrong verdict.
 
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Hawkman98 said:
Not 100% true. When you're in the heat of the moment your brain makes you do some weird shit. Your mind can't keep up with what is going on and you end up making mistakes.
Click to expand...

And that's why training is essential.

Do it over and over again. Under challenging circumstances. So it's like a reflex.
 
The Tradition said:
And that's why training is essential.

Do it over and over again. Under challenging circumstances. So it's like a reflex.
Click to expand...
You can train all day every day and when you get into a shit storm your brain doesn't function right. Adrenaline takes over and you just do things you normally wouldn't do. Just think she probably takes her gun and taser out of their holsters every day at the beginning and end of her shift. She knows where those items are on her belt and still made the mistake. It's hard to explain unless you experience it yourself.
 
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Hawkman98 said:
I'm not exactly sure what I said in the previous thread, but the use of deadly force states if you feel like your life or someone elses is in jeopardy of serious injury or death, you are allowed to use deadly force. If Potter could articulate that she felt her partner was in jeopardy she would have been justified in using deadly force. However in this case it appears she just screwed up. Obviously she went to grab her taser and grabbed her gun by mistake. If you are in a situation where deadly force was justified she should be pulling her weapon, not her taser.
Click to expand...

Thank you.

And, as I have stated numerous time, the judge clearly felt that Potter's partner was in jeopardy.

That judge, during sentencing, stated that Kimberly Potter drew a weapon, and I quote, "to protect a fellow officer on the other side of the vehicle who could have been dragged and seriously injured if the car were to speed away."

Everyone can watch for themselves here:


video.startribune.com

Judge Regina Chu hands down sentence for Kimberly Potter

Hennepin County District Judge Regina Chu called the sentence she gave Kimberly Potter "a significant downward departure" from state sentencing guidelines, adding that it was "the saddest case in my 20 years on the bench."
video.startribune.com video.startribune.com
 
  • Haha
Reactions: RileyHawk
Hawkman98 said:
Not 100% true. When you're in the heat of the moment your brain makes you do some weird shit. Your mind can't keep up with what is going on and you end up making mistakes.
Click to expand...

thank you again for all your input.

and as you stated, several experts testified under oath that in the heat of the moment, an officer can do what they normally/instinctively would do (grab their service weapon) even though they are shouting that they are grabbing something else (grabbing their taser)
 
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Franisdaman said:
You 2 REALLY don't understand how the jury system works.

I, on the other hand, fully understand "how the jury system works" and I fully understand the concept of "beyond reasonable doubt." And as a result of "how the jury system works," there are a lot of people, especially of color, who were wrongly convicted.

And again, gohawks50 bringing Chauvin into the discussion, trying to make comparisons, is beyond ridiculous. No LEO, especially Kimberly Potter, should ever be mentioned in the same sentence/paragraph as that monster.
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You're an idiot. That is all.
 
InsaneHawkJJP said:
And most of that is due to poor police performance, corruption and an inability to change. It’s on them!
Click to expand...

You are close but it is deeper than this. As a profession, they are entirely unwilling to acknowledge or address the myriad of issues in the industry starting with removing the many bad and/or incompetent officers among the ranks. I feel for the good officers who have to deal with both the bad officers and the animosity from the public as a result of the bad officers but as a whole a lot of this is on them. They say nothing and provide no leadership on cleaning up the ranks,
 
What confuses me about this debate, whether deadly force was justified or not; is that Potter admitted she meant to draw her taser but screwed up and pulled her gun, right? All other things aside, this is why I think it was manslaughter but also why I’m okay with a lighter sentence.
 
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I imagine Potter will receive street justice some day.

Not saying it's right, but fully expect it.
 
Moral of this story is, do everything in your power to cover it up, and for the love of god, dont tell the truth.
 
Franisdaman said:
thank you again for all your input.

and as you stated, several experts testified under oath that in the heat of the moment, an officer can do what they normally/instinctively would do (grab their service weapon) even though they are shouting that they are grabbing something else (grabbing their taser)
Click to expand...
Lol. You don't understand the contradiction.
 
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