There are some funny videos of black people watching old videos of Bird. Their reactions are fantastic.
Larry Bird was a badass
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It's too bad because this group of young Celtics are pretty fun to watch coached by Brad Stevens.
2012 team which was considered the second best team ever assembled.
Are you a LeBron fan?
A lot of sources have comprised a Top 10 list of all-time greats. The player who is unanimously at the top is Jordan. Always. Usually Kareem and Wilt are 2 and 3. Occasionally, LeBron will crack the Top 3, but more times than not it's Wilt and Kareem. I've even seen Magic and Bill Russell in those slots a few times (not that I agree with that). In some Top 10 lists, LeBron isn't even in the Top 5.
Jordan is still the GOAT, and then there is everyone else. Wilt and Kareem show up in the Top 3 more than Lebron. So, tell me how a guy who is 3/9 in the Finals and is left out of the Top 3 more times than not in serious contention for the GOAT?
Most definitely. Tatum was on a tear before the season got suspended, becoming a superstar. Walker & Brown both put up 20ppg, & Brown can guard any position. Problem is the bench sucks and when Wanamaker plays...bad things happen.
I couldn't care less what you or anyone else thinks of my opinion or "basketball knowledge."
I'm also basing my opinion off a myriad of Top 10 lists. (See my response to Legend.) I think you can make a compelling argument for LeBron being Top 5. Bleacher Report had LeBron #6 all-time and Bird #5, which is where I personally would rank those two, but I know that opinion is not popular.
It'll be interesting to see where LeBron is ranked twenty or thirty years after retirement and how basketball historians view his abysmal Finals record and the era he played in. Bird retired after '92 or '93, and he still makes about everyone's Top 10 list, and is often near the middle. The funny thing is when Kobe was in his prime he was drawing all kinds of GOAT comparisons, but at the twilight of his career and after retirement that talk faded. I'm guessing that will be a similar story with LeBron, as the "Greek Freak" will muscle his way in to try to steal his thunder.
I probably just need to sit down and give the NBA another chance … I haven't even "tried" to watch a full game in years …
That's circular reasoning. And frankly, egregiously stupid.
The Eastern Conference wasn't trash when Bird played.
It's literally your argument. You're saying it's better to lose earlier in the playoffs. Both Bird and LeBron have three titles, LeBron has more Finals appearances. That's not a bad thing. Thank god Larry ran into the 76ers and Pistons and didn't lose another Finals matchup to the Lakers!
I don't know how you are extrapolating that from my argument.
LeBron went to the Finals eight years in a row because there was no serious competition in the Eastern Conference. That is just the truth of the matter. And it's brought up because LeBron fans bring it up, as they love to tout his Finals appearances as a testament to his greatness.
Couple that with the fact he had to ditch Cleveland to team up with Bosh and Wade, and still only went 2-2 in the Finals in Miami, it's not that impressive. To me, LeBron engineering the comeback from being down 3-1 to Golden State is a far greater testament to his greatness than having a cakewalk in the conference playoffs to get to the Finals.
Bleacher Report
#5 Bird
#2 James
www.bleacherreport.com/articles/2854727-bleacher-reports-all-time-player-rankings-nbas-top-50-revealed
No one is going to argue that beating a 73 win team isn't the highlight of an amazing career resume. But I also sure as hell don't think he should be penalized for getting to the Finals as a 22 year old and losing to a better Spurs team, or losing to probably the greatest team of all time the 2017 Warriors. The Dallas Finals loss is probably the biggest negative mark on his career, he's played great in every other Finals loss though.
The first paragraph is almost entirely wrong. Bird dunked easily because he was 6'9". Despite his height he blocked less than 1 shot a game throughout his career. And he played exactly when highlight dunks were a thing - MJ, Dominique, the dunk contest.... and all of this after Dr. J's exploits.
Bird was very skilled but below average (for the NBA) in athleticism.
Are you really going to count Bill Walton as being hall of fame caliber when he finished out his career in Boston? Please. Then Shaquille was another great player LeBron couldn't win with.
Would you take Dennis Johnson over Kyrie Irving? Robert Parish over Chris Bosh? McHale over D-Wade?
If you're really going with the argument Bird was surrounded by substantially greater players, that's an argument you aren't going to win.
Even Bill Simmons, the biggest Celtic homer of all-time, has LeBron ahead of Bird.
In the last 5 years I've never had a serious discussion with someone who tried to put Bird ahead of James on the All-Time list.
In the last 5 years I've never had a serious discussion with someone who tried to put Bird ahead of James on the All-Time list.
Are you really going to count Bill Walton as being hall of fame caliber when he finished out his career in Boston? Please. Then Shaquille was another great player LeBron couldn't win with.
Would you take Dennis Johnson over Kyrie Irving? Robert Parish over Chris Bosh? McHale over D-Wade?
If you're really going with the argument Bird was surrounded by substantially greater players, that's an argument you aren't going to win.
You are doing a great job of pointing out that the player's in LeBron's NBA days were MUCH better than the players in Bird's NBA days. You know that is not a point in Bird's favor, right?
This was the one I saw.
LeBron is ranked #6. Bird is ranked #5.
As I've already conceded, LeBron will be in more Top 5s than Bird. I'm not claiming my opinion is popular. Or, for that matter, better than anyone else's.
That Bleacher Report ranking was from 2013. SMH
From a quick Google search on the first page of results:
LeBron #2, Bird #9
https://www.foxsports.com/nba/gallery/ranking-the-25-greatest-players-in-nba-history-100716
LeBron #1, Bird #7
https://www.britannica.com/list/the-10-greatest-basketball-players-of-all-time
LeBron #3, Bird #6
https://www.thetoptens.com/basketball-players/
LeBron #2, Bird #8
https://www.sportskeeda.com/basketball/top-10-greatest-nba-players-of-all-time-sstl
LeBron #1, Bird #8
https://www.lineups.com/articles/top-50-nba-players-all-time/
LeBron #2, Bird #8
https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/...ayers-of-all-time-where-do-lebron-curry-rank/
The discussion was on who had better teammates.
I personally think it's difficult to compare different eras. But let's just compare the 1992 Dream Team vs. Team USA in 2012. From top to bottom, which team consists of the better players?
Walton was the 6th man for the Celtics. I would take all 3 of the HoFer's over those other good players - especially getting to play with them at the same time.
Are you really going to count Bill Walton as being hall of fame caliber when he finished out his career in Boston? Please. Then Shaquille was another great player LeBron couldn't win with.
Would you take Dennis Johnson over Kyrie Irving? Robert Parish over Chris Bosh? McHale over D-Wade?
If you're really going with the argument Bird was surrounded by substantially greater players, that's an argument you aren't going to win.
Your argument is unraveling and the suggestion that LeBron played with better players only makes that happen faster.
I already conceded LeBron makes more lists than Bird. As I pointed out in another response, Bird has been retired for almost thirty years.
LeBron will be high on everyone's list right now because he is still active and his athleticism is off the charts. It'll be interesting to see what happens when LeBron is in the twilight of his career and the Greek Freak becomes the face of the NBA.
Lol - a short time ago you were saying this:
"I'm also basing my opinion off a myriad of Top 10 lists."
Link them or you're simply full of shit.
So, one argument is Bird had substantially better teammates. That argument is proven bunk. Then suggesting LeBron played with better teammates unravels the argument? Okay.
Let me be clear: I think LeBron is one of the greatest of all-time. I concede my opinion Larry Bird was a slightly better all-around player is not only unpopular but that a compelling case could be made LeBron is better.
Wow. Some of you guys take LeBron talk to heart.
I said the lists I have seen over the years have Michael Jordan almost unanimously at the top. Kareem and Wilt have often been in the Top 3, with LeBron occasionally cracking the Top 3. Obviously, that has changed. I'm guessing a lot has to do with LeBron being the face of the NBA now and no longer the villain.
At no point did I say Bird would be ahead of LeBron on most lists, only mine and maybe one or two others.
Your whole argument is unraveling and your claim that LeBron played with better players only exacerbates it.
Your comment about Walton might have some merit if Shaq had been the 6th man with LeBron and 3 other HoF players, but that didn't happen. Your comparison of Chris Bosh to Robert Parish is laughable. Denis Johnson over Irving - all day long as Irving never played defense. McHale vs. D Wade? C'mon there is no comparison there even considering they play vastly different positions.
And LeBron didn't play with all these players at the same time.
You're embarrassing yourself with this one.
You were dumb enough to state James was "a glorified Dominique Wilkins playing in a lame era of NBA basketball" which is amazingly stupid.
Bad Ass still walked into that locker room, said that, and then went and won the competition.
https://www.thescore.com/nba/news/1176914
LeBron's career is not going to diminish after he retires. If anything it will be the opposite, there are a lot of LeBron haters out there, it will take a lot of people some time to fully appreciate his greatness. LeBron followed MJ in fairly quick succession, it's very possible we go decades without anyone coming close to these guys, that's the time when people will fully appreciate LeBron's career, his durability, his consistency, the Finals performances he put up against the Warriors.
The first paragraph of that post was obvious trolling, but I thought the 2nd paragraph had some merit. It would be interesting to see what Bird would do in today's environment, which is basically "no-touch" in comparison to when Bird played.
Jesus Christ dude, this is one of the most absolute shit takes I have read on HROT.
You're in good company here. Lol.
As I've stated from the beginning, I don't expect my opinion to be too popular.
I've been looking up a lot of random 80's and 90's players on basketball reference the last month or so, Schremf had some real solid seasons, 19/9.5/6 for the Pacers in '93, I didn't remember him being that good of passer. The Bulls almost signed him in place of Harper which would have changed the dynamic of those teams a lot. He's one of those guys who was ahead of his time, he comes into the league today, 6'10, can rebound, can shoot the 3, good passer, he's playing 4 and small ball 5, stretching the floor, perfect offensive game for today's NBA, back then he saw a lot of time at the 3.
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