Make the call - Two or no?

[HawkFan1986]

Hell, the most controversial “non-calls” were at 134. Bravo spent 3/4 of the match running or grabbing and holding on to a foot. Miracle that only 1 stalling point was awarded.

You can’t rely on stalling calls. Ads is getting to the leg of Rby, now he needs to elevate. I don’t think he’s going to be able to finish on the ground against Rby. He has to find a way to work up once he gets to the leg. Much easier said than done but he can do it.

I maintain that RBY is gettable, but Austin can’t relent even for a second, he might be the only guy in college wrestling capable of doing that. He needs to make it obvious that he’s forcing the action. If he can finish just one of those single legs he forces Rby to come forward, and that makes him hand fight with both hands bringing Austin’s favorite tie back into play.

 

[Gobblin]

You can’t rely on stalling calls. Ads is getting to the leg of Rby, now he needs to elevate. I don’t think he’s going to be able to finish on the ground against Rby. He has to find a way to work up once he gets to the leg. Much easier said than done but he can do it.

I maintain that RBY is gettable, but Austin can’t relent even for a second, he might be the only guy in college wrestling capable of doing that. He needs to make it obvious that he’s forcing the action. If he can finish just one of those single legs he forces Rby to come forward, and that makes him hand fight with both hands bringing Austin’s favorite tie back into play.

I couldn’t believe Austin did just simply run his feet a couple times after he had cut across. Not saying he would’ve scored, but that’s 101 stuff. There was 2 perfect opportunities for it, but he just lifted and waited for the stalemate instead. At minimum just run him OOB.

 

[HawkFan1986]

I couldn’t believe Austin did just simply run his feet a couple times after he had cut across. Not saying he would’ve scored, but that’s 101 stuff. There was 2 perfect opportunities for it, but he just lifted and waited for the stalemate instead. At minimum just run him OOB.

Agreed, there were a few times I thought he had a decent chance to finish. Wrestling is all about feel and I don’t think Austin feels comfortable wrestling RBY.

Every time Austin gets to the leg you can see Rby immediately drape over him and look for that cradle, and if he can’t get to it he goes for the ankle hold to tie him up. Austin shuts down after that. If he keeps cutting the corner he will be vulnerable for a second but I think he could knock RBY to his hip for two. On the flip side, ADS has to create a better angle. A few times he went straight on. That looks good in terms of him pushing the action but he gets caught under RBY’s hips and that’s not a good spot to be.

Austin’s had two years to make these adjustments and I do think he’s gotten better, and let’s face it, Rby is pretty damn good. Austin’s gonna have to be uncomfortable to win. I think he can do it. Maybe I’m being optimistic?

 

[TarpHawk]

Somebody ask Yagla. I'll trust his opinion.

 

[enveng]

Okay - I did. Where is CStar’s leg trapped, as per the referee training video says it must be?

Watch the video again. This is folk style.

 

[MVPFAN]

You can’t rely on stalling calls. Ads is getting to the leg of Rby, now he needs to elevate. I don’t think he’s going to be able to finish on the ground against Rby. He has to find a way to work up once he gets to the leg. Much easier said than done but he can do it.

I maintain that RBY is gettable, but Austin can’t relent even for a second, he might be the only guy in college wrestling capable of doing that. He needs to make it obvious that he’s forcing the action. If he can finish just one of those single legs he forces Rby to come forward, and that makes him hand fight with both hands bringing Austin’s favorite tie back into play.

When guys were hiding the arm at NCAAS last year he got into the body, lifted and put them down hard. Needs to do that.

 

[enveng]

Okay - I did. Where is CStar’s leg trapped, as per the referee training video says it must be?

The video is saying that even thought the offensive wrestler’s leg is trapped it is a folk style takedown, but it would not be a freestyle takedown in that same position.

 

[PSU James]

Since the conversation went to RBY and DeSanto. Was wondering what people thought of DeSanto questioning the ref about RBY grabbing his foot and ankle right up in the ref’s Face?

 

[HoundedHawk]

It appears that Starocci even recognized that the leg wasn't laced, and put his leg on top of Kem's, intentionally. High wrestling IQ.

Wasn't high enough. It wasn't the reason Rivera reversed the call. Shockingly, he said it was the time factor. And review shows he had it with 2 second to go.

 

[sstark46]

Since the conversation went to RBY and DeSanto. Was wondering what people thought of DeSanto questioning the ref about RBY grabbing his foot and ankle right up in the ref’s Face?

I didn't like it and yelled as much from the stands (as if Austin could ever hear me anyway). While I understood his frustration, those types of conversations with the ref should come from the coaches, and I felt Austin should've been focused more on the match and what he himself was doing.

 

[mcpat]

The video is saying that even thought the offensive wrestler’s leg is trapped it is a folk style takedown, but it would not be a freestyle takedown in that same position.

Yes. I was wrong; I had posted that I was. Sorry it took me so long to get it. I actually appreciate the education on this one. No one will believe that.

 

[Jimmy two times]

It appears that Starocci even recognized that the leg wasn't laced, and put his leg on top of Kem's, intentionally. High wrestling IQ.

Actually, leg does not need to be laced, just in the middle of two legs of other wrestler. But to your point, Starocci recognized this and place his toe inside Kemerer‘s right leg at the same time he let go of the leg. Doing this kept Kemerer‘s leg from meeting the control criteria. Ref was wrong because it wasn’t two to begin with, not because he called it late.

Great match by both wrestlers regardless. Not picking sides at all, just stating what I believe the correct call was.

 

[Petch]

Hell, the most controversial “non-calls” were at 134. Bravo spent 3/4 of the match running or grabbing and holding on to a foot. Miracle that only 1 stalling point was awarded.

Yeah…remind me when Assad took one step forward. You guys are ridiculous.

 

[pablow]

Hell, the most controversial “non-calls” were at 134. Bravo spent 3/4 of the match running or grabbing and holding on to a foot. Miracle that only 1 stalling point was awarded.

RBY likes to twist his opponent's feet. It's dirty and quite intentional. Somebody needs to warn him off of that.

 

[sunwarrior]

I was a bit more baffled by a 141 situation, even though I know it was the right call according the rulebook…

Now, I’m not advocating for a full on switch to freestyle (or maybe I am?) but despite what the rules say, I’m a little confused how that spot where JE threw Lee straight to his back and held him/stopped his momentum (although only for the slightest second) isn’t considered a TD yet if you get around behind a guy and get his hands to touch for 0.000001 seconds before he comes up & away, that IS a takedown.

The “no reaction time” rule only applies to a hand touch? Not planting a guy straight to his back? Just feels silly to me

 

[HoundedHawk]

I was a bit more baffled by a 141 situation, even though I know it was the right call according the rulebook…

Now, I’m not advocating for a full on switch to freestyle (or maybe I am?) but despite what the rules say, I’m a little confused how that spot where JE threw Lee straight to his back and held him/stopped his momentum (although only for the slightest second) isn’t considered a TD yet if you get around behind a guy and get his hands to touch for 0.000001 seconds before he comes up & away, that IS a takedown.

The “no reaction time” rule only applies to a hand touch? Not planting a guy straight to his back? Just feels silly to me

I agree.

There should be some reward for the ability from the standing position to throw your opponent to your back. I'm not talking mat wrestling, but from the neutral.

I thought that a couple years ago when Hall tossed Kem to his back. An amazing move, all for naught.

 

[sunwarrior]

Yeah…remind me when Assad took one step forward. You guys are ridiculous.

What does that have to do with anything? We can agree that Assad was stalling quite a bit & still note how terrible for the sport RBY’s strategy was.

Did you see someone here saying the way Assad wrestled is what we need to see to attract fans? What are you even talking about?

We obviously didn’t come here to trash our own guys, so I’m not sure what you expect, dork

 

[Petch]

What does that have to do with anything? We can agree that Assad was stalling quite a bit & still note how terrible for the sport RBY’s strategy was.

Did you see someone here saying the way Assad wrestled is what we need to see to attract fans? What are you even talking about?

We obviously didn’t come here to trash our own guys, so I’m not sure what you expect, dork

You guys were/are obsessed with stalling. I think Austin diving in on a leg and turtling up was stalling. So there…DORK!

 

[Titanhawk2]

Kem has the Merkle and frees the leg with 2 seconds remaining. Nothing changes. Ref calls 2 TD after time expires. Ref reviews and overturns based on his call being late, and not when takedown criteria was met. It honestly boggles the mind 🤯.

But it obviously happened before the ref physically put his hand up, right?

 

[HawkeyeMass]

RBY likes to twist his opponent's feet. It's dirty and quite intentional. Somebody needs to warn him off of that.

It’s illegal. It’s far to common to see officials calling illegal holds as PD. Intentionally taking the toes to the outside is illegal. The bent leg Turk that Dean hit was illegal. You have to go 45°. I thought he stayed parallel to the spine. The irony behind these is that they are both literally illustrated in the rules manuals. It is what it is. For Warner, don’t sit on a lead and you don’t have to worry about it.

 

[Hawk fan in Minn]

Yeah…remind me when Assad took one step forward. You guys are ridiculous.

So leave dude

 

[sunwarrior]

You guys were/are obsessed with stalling. I think Austin diving in on a leg and turtling up was stalling. So there…DORK!

Yeah, how silly of wrestling fans to want to see WRESTLING

Turtling up? I’m not sure that we were watching the same match

 

[The cow catcher]

 

[jrod65]

View embedded media

Well shit. I was thinking it was a td(but am no rules expert), but may have to rethink that after seeing Askren saying that it was.....

 

[WildTurk]

You guys were/are obsessed with stalling. I think Austin diving in on a leg and turtling up was stalling. So there…DORK!

You think what Austin was doing that match was stalling? Foolish comment

 

[PSU Mike]

View embedded media

Because Ben said. And I’m sure nobody does anything different in the last 3 matches if the 174 result had been reversed.

If I had an extra 5 seconds last night I would have watched one of his MMA efforts.

 

[GoHawks1996]

Well, on one hand, Asschin is an idiot, but on the other hand he absolutely despises Iowa, so if he's gonna say it was a clear 2 in our favor that leads me to believe it was a pretty damn clear cut takedown.

 

[Chuck C]

Well, on one hand, Asschin is an idiot, but on the other hand he absolutely despises Iowa, so if he's gonna say it was a clear 2 in our favor that leads me to believe it was a pretty damn clear cut takedown.

Yeah. Askren may be a lot of things, but an Iowa fan he definitely is not.

 

[Trapper85]

Since the conversation went to RBY and DeSanto. Was wondering what people thought of DeSanto questioning the ref about RBY grabbing his foot and ankle right up in the ref’s Face?

No problem with him questioning it with the ref, but I recall he put his hands on the ref and that was not wise. But I don't think he did so in with any intentionally aggressive intent. While the ref scolded Austin a bit, I thought he handled it responsibly.

 

[24 so far]

Agreed, there were a few times I thought he had a decent chance to finish. Wrestling is all about feel and I don’t think Austin feels comfortable wrestling RBY.

Every time Austin gets to the leg you can see Rby immediately drape over him and look for that cradle, and if he can’t get to it he goes for the ankle hold to tie him up. Austin shuts down after that. If he keeps cutting the corner he will be vulnerable for a second but I think he could knock RBY to his hip for two. On the flip side, ADS has to create a better angle. A few times he went straight on. That looks good in terms of him pushing the action but he gets caught under RBY’s hips and that’s not a good spot to be.

Austin’s had two years to make these adjustments and I do think he’s gotten better, and let’s face it, Rby is pretty damn good. Austin’s gonna have to be uncomfortable to win. I think he can do it. Maybe I’m being optimistic?

DeSanto ain't beating RBY again in this lifetime. It's over Johnny.

 

[rcamp67]

DeSanto ain't beating RBY again in this lifetime. It's over Johnny.

Would you care to give me 10/1 odds and make a wager then? 10/1 seems reasonable if there is zero chance Austin beats him again.

 

[Gobblin]

DeSanto ain't beating RBY again in this lifetime. It's over Johnny.

While you may be right, I’m not as confident in that as you. Austin certainly has the ability, just needs a flurry or sequence to go his way.

 

[24 so far]

While you may be right, I’m not as confident in that as you. Austin certainly has the ability, just needs a flurry or sequence to go his way.

Well my man, I said it before this meet too, and nothing that happened changed my mind. Sorry, you can't shoot and sit there and that's what DeSanto did, even if you do it a bunch. I applaud him for his effort, but I see no reason to think he's gonna win this matchup ever again, no matter how many times it happens.

 

[Gobblin]

Well my man, I said it before this meet too, and nothing that happened changed my mind. Sorry, you can't shoot and sit there and that's what DeSanto did, even if you do it a bunch. I applaud him for his effort, but I see no reason to think he's gonna win this matchup ever again, no matter how many times it happens.

What if he doesn’t just sit there next time? Or what if RBY slips on a wet spot? Or what if Austin doesn’t give up a slide by next time?

Not arguing at all, but you’re speaking in some absolutes when there’s plenty of variables.

Hope your wrong, twice.

 

[pablow]

Well my man, I said it before this meet too, and nothing that happened changed my mind. Sorry, you can't shoot and sit there and that's what DeSanto did, even if you do it a bunch. I applaud him for his effort, but I see no reason to think he's gonna win this matchup ever again, no matter how many times it happens.

Mark Perry was 0-6 against Johnny Hendricks until . . .

 

[24 so far]

Mark Perry was 0-6 against Johnny Hendricks until . . .

I never said Mark Perry couldn't beat Johnny Hendricks though...............

I'm not so sure RBY wasn't sleepwalking. He didn't seem too interested or concerned at any time. It's up to DeSanto to make him concerned and I'm not seeing that. Sorry.

 

[HawkFan1986]

I never said Mark Perry couldn't beat Johnny Hendricks though...............

I'm not so sure RBY wasn't sleepwalking. He didn't seem too interested or concerned at any time. It's up to DeSanto to make him concerned and I'm not seeing that. Sorry.

He’s got two more chances to prove you wrong. I’m sure you won’t be disappointed if he does.

 

[24 so far]

What if he doesn’t just sit there next time? Or what if RBY slips on a wet spot? Or what if Austin doesn’t give up a slide by next time?

Not arguing at all, but you’re speaking in some absolutes when there’s plenty of variables.

Hope your wrong, twice.

What if RBY decided he wants to actually try to take DeSanto down more than once? I just think he's better and I don't think he puts all that much effort into it TBH. Maybe he thinks he'll gas? No idea.

You fella's do understand I hope I'm wrong too right? Right? I'll believe it when I see it, and I'll be elated if it came to pass I assure you. But that doesn't change my opinion.

I thought Austin wrestled well, not down on him at all. Love the kid. A bit pissed about Warner, but that's a match we can win in a rematch.

 

[Sett1997]

I couldn’t believe Austin did just simply run his feet a couple times after he had cut across. Not saying he would’ve scored, but that’s 101 stuff. There was 2 perfect opportunities for it, but he just lifted and waited for the stalemate instead. At minimum just run him OOB.

Agree 100%, I was like run it!! He just seemed content with the stalemate.

 

[Gobblin]

What if RBY decided he wants to actually try to take DeSanto down more than once? I just think he's better and I don't think he puts all that much effort into it TBH. Maybe he thinks he'll gas? No idea.

You fella's do understand I hope I'm wrong too right? Right? I'll believe it when I see it, and I'll be elated if it came to pass I assure you. But that doesn't change my opinion.

I thought Austin wrestled well, not down on him at all. Love the kid. A bit pissed about Warner, but that's a match we can win in a rematch.

Precisely. Lots of “what if’s” in sports. I got you buddy. We’re always on the same page.