Those guys didn't believe that the Earth rotated around the Sun.
The first guy died 1100 years ago, and the second guy died about 2000 years ago. Their understanding of reality was SO different from ours.
Meanwhile Franklin Graham with some pitiful thoughts
- Thread starter Chishawk1425
- Start date
The first guy died 1100 years ago, and the second guy died about 2000 years ago. Their understanding of reality was SO different from ours.
Jesus was comparing Hell to Gehenna. He taught in metaphors.
Jesus talked about hell dozens of times as a literal place of torment. So does Scripture.
No, he literally said Gehenna. It was later translated hell. The point was to fear God who can destroy your soul. That does not mean put you in a literal place of conscious torment for all of eternity.
Yes, I'm acutely aware of what most modern Christian denominations believe. That doesn't mean they're right or that the Church didn't alter texts and invent dogma. Christian and non-Christian scholars, who've actually studied the original Greek and Hebrew, know "hell" was not in the original texts or part of Jewish Orthodox beliefs.
It cannot be overstated how much a "Jewish Filter" is required to help interpret the Old and New Testaments. The entire Bible was written by Hebrews!
That's not even beginning to cover the various orthodoxies and derivations that happened very early on, and throughout the entire existence of what s referred to as "Christianity."
I'm pretty fortunate that the Catholics I know personally have a much more sophisticated understanding. Of course, they're definitely going to "Hell", so big deal.
That dude is scary. I've seen a few of his videos. He's not playing around.
Both great scholars.
Doesn't mean they were right. Lol. It was called the Dark Ages for a reason. You know, when people believed the Earth is flat and the sun revolves around it.
Right. The original authors were not literalists. Lol.
You can literally read the New Testament in the original Greek. It's not difficult to translate.
As I stated, the two most brilliant theologians on history disagree with your assessment.
Jesus taught in metaphors. That's why He used "Gehenna" to describe Hell.
He also said it was the outer darkness where people weep and gnash their teeth.
Neither are good. Jesus was warning about a place after death that is really bad.
It's not my assessment. It's the assessment of critical scholars who actually know what they're talking about.
Some scholars; many believe in the original meaning.
Joseph Ratzinger is one.
Yes, when fake Christians (not saying you) are left out of the wedding banquet and the coming kingdom of God, they will be very distraught.
In the end, those who aren't "saved" will be cast into a lake of fire where they will be destroyed permanently.
He's locked-in. He's made his choice. He's basically frozen-in-time.
I don't really care about it. I just find it sad that people base their entire existence and adherence to a belief system because they are AFRAID of something. It's a waste. I mean, even in some Bible translations, they teach you, specifically, to "FEAR the Lord Thy God!" It's cruel to characterize God in such a way, in my opinion.
Disagree with your last sentence..
The word "eternal" is used by Christ to describe Hell. That's means forever.
When do you think you'll be ready to do that? You haven't shown ANY signs of it, so far.
In Greek, the "Lake of Fire" is actually "Lake of Spirits." Lake of Spirits sounds like it might even be fun, to me. A Lake of Fire is preposterous. A lake is where they keep water to extinguish the fires!
Lol. You obviously don't know the original meaning. In all likelihood, no one does considering Jesus and his disciples spoke Aramaic and those who wrote the gospels were highly educated and literate in Greek.
Regardless, the original dogma was not a literal place of conscious torment for all of eternity. Again, that was a pagan belief that originated with the Greeks that was later adopted as more and more Gentiles converted to Christianity.
Yes, the punishment is eternal. They are forever gone. That doesn't mean eternal consciousness of torment. There is no life or consciousness outside of God.
The original meaning is clear. Jesus was plain spoken so humans could understand it.
You're the one trying to dispute it. No offense. 😁
It's always amazed me "Christians" will go through endless mental gymnastics to rationalize slavery, genocide, etc. in the Old Testament but when it comes to mainstream beliefs about "hell" in the New Testament they have no qualms with it.
So, killing a whole village of men, women, and children is bad and there's clearly a greater context of the Lord working in mysterious ways that we're missing. But when it comes to billions of people burning in a place of eternal suffering and torment that seems to be perfectly okay.
🤔
That's not what countless mystic saints have said.
Padre Pio, Saint Teresa of Avila and Saint Faustina are a few.
The best thing to do is stick with Jesus and His teachings, IMO. He is the fulfillment of the Old Testament.
Jesus never advocated for slavery and genocide.
How about Crazy Horse, or Genghis Khan?
What do you think Jesus had to say about the Sioux, or the Shintos? Probably not very much because he had no idea they even existed.
The next time I find two people who have identical interpretations or understandings of "Jesus and His teachings" will be the first time in recorded history that it has ever happened.
Your simplistic approach is not for everyone. Saint SeeFer Yourself will tell you that.
I have an ongoing relationship with Jesus that is honest and transparent. I am very open and my belief system fluid. That doesn't mean I will adopt any belief that doesn't seem to align with the facts or the evidence. I think God welcomes that as opposed to those (again, not saying you) who honor God with their lips but their hearts are far from him.
The entire Bible was not written by Jews.
The Gospel of Luke and the Book of Acts were
written by Luke, a Gentile. The other 64 books
were written by Jews.
The Gospel of Luke and the Book of Acts were
written by Luke, a Gentile. The other 64 books
were written by Jews.
Well, that's good. Don't forget to pray as much as you can.
"Pray, hope and don't worry." 🙂
- Saint Padre Pio
Curious: how do you know Jesus's words were mistranslated or no one knows the original meaning?
Just curious.
Luke is a not a "real person." Luke is an amalgam of PEOPLE! And, whoever "Luke" was supposed to be, I assure you, he was circumcised!
Are you asking in general or as it relates to the passage on Gehenna you had referenced?
I have a close friend who subscribes to some kind of belief that... the brand escapes me... but, it's a newer belief that insists it is based on old, literal, OT translations. Anyway, these people are ADAMANTLY fearful of Catholics. I had no idea how bad until I made the mistake of asking "Why do you have a menorah on your table?" one day.
These people are strict adherents of the "Torah" and... somehow they pick and choose from the New Testament. But, "Yeshuah" is of utmost importance. But, Catholics are, in their opinion, Satanic. I had to break it to him one day that: "Dude, without the Catholic Church, the Bible as you know it and read it, would not exist." He refused to accept it right away, but finally realized it was true. I felt bad, in a way. It's amazing the kinds of pillars people build their beliefs.
As to the passage of "Gehenna", it seems clear that Jesus was warning people about a bad place after death.
Do you agree with that?
The passage on Gehenna from New Testament scholars with PhDs in textual criticism.
In general, that's a crapshoot and difficult for scholars to ascertain. The challenge is in knowing what Jesus said in Aramaic and how it was translated in Greek. It also becomes a question of authorship. Who actually wrote the gospel accounts and where did they get their information? It is odd the gospels were written after Paul's epistles.
If it helps, I believe Jesus was likely divine, suffered a Roman crucifixion, and probably in fact resurrected which inspired the Christian movement. I also believe the reason we have no record of Jesus ever writing anything down was because most people in antiquity were illiterate and he entrusted his church, the Catholic Church, to carry on his ministry. That doesn't mean I believe the Catholic Church is infallible or doesn't get plenty wrong. It simply means the Catholic Church is the best and most authentic representation of Christ.
When you look at the person who inspired this thread, and the many like him, it's pretty easy for me to arrive at that conclusion.
The teachings on Hell are all in the Catechism. I figured you were protestant since you have your own interpretation of the Gospel. 🙂
I wasn't trying to make an indictment on Catholics. The Catholics I know personally are amazing, enlightened souls who actually seem more like agnostic themselves, except they're highly-educated and they, like me, have studied many, many forms of religious mythologies and accept them all as being legitimate. But, they accept, also, that restricting "God" to the mythology of an ancient Palestinian father figure that floats in the clouds is kind of a travesty to the vastness of consciousness and understanding. I mean... it's OKAY of that is all you need, I suppose. But, to me, it's sorta like forcing yourself to only eat rice for your entire life. "There's only one 'RIGHT' sustenance."
Similar threads
