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Men's Freestyle Olympics Recap

IAChief32

IAChief32

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Apr 21, 2017
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57KG Spencer: Throughout this whole process, about as good a result as one could hope for except for getting the W against a tough opponent. No knee issues, no weight cut issues...just a chance to wrestle the best at the top of his game and he lost a close one. I mentioned earlier that this is just how he is wired. I also think that his body has betrayed him in one form or another since he was a junior in high school. I don't know that Spencer has had a year where he wasn't rehabbing something. As far as I know, this was it. And we could tell...he got bigger and looked great. But as far as he knows, this was his shot; it's a heckuva lot easier to be grateful when you've accomplished your goals or have a clear cut place in this sport for the next 4 years. To this fan, Spencer did great and I hope he finds peace with it.

57KG RBY: I think the cut hurt him but I also think his style does as well. He might of been the quickest (him or Higuchi) at the weight but needs to be able to apply it like Higuchi can. We've seen that he can be good at freestyle. I'd like to see him at his normal wt next year before making an informed decision

65KG Zain: There are reports today of a concussion in the first match? I do think cutting a crap ton of weight didn't help. Would have loved to see Zain go out with a medal. Injuries, weight issues etc has really made me appreciate John Smith's 6 year run.

65KG Rivera: Great run for Seabass. He gave the eventual winner (Japan) all he could handle before losing by 2 and then wrestling back for 3rd.

74KG Dake: Is this the last run for Kyle? If so, he has been one of our GOATS...just ask JB who said as much on the broadcast. I do think Dake somewhat forgot what got him here...his elite defense. He just didn't seem ready for Japan because his guy was ready for him. We got out coached here and didn't make adjustments in the second in relation to going for the chest wrap. Just an odd situation...he looked like the 20 year old Dake we all know and love in the match before that and suddenly looked his birth certificate age against Japan. IMO, that was perhaps the most shocking result of the men's tourney.

86KG Brooks: Aaron had a great tourney except for maybe a lapse in the last minute or two of his semis match. Rumor is he is going up to 92KG to eventually make 97 for LA. He will do well but it will be tough wrestling taller guys that are just as powerful or more than he is. He may end up being a tweener like Cox.

86KG Amine: I know he didn't medal but love this guy's fight.

97KG Snyder: I started writing a whole thing about KS dropping levels and is now the really tough "gate keeper" that finalists have to get through to win gold. But this is just an overreaction to the Iranian loss and not placing on my part because I remembered that this is his first senior tourney where he didn't medal since he started in 2015. He has earned a mulligan.

125KG Parris: He had about a good a draw as you could ask for but the Olympic lights shine pretty bright. MP looked totally gassed in the first period...almost like an adrenaline dump.

Overall, not our best year to say the least. We medaled at only 3 weights with no gold and this was without the Russian team (no lack of Russians tho). Japan and Iran looked great Japan's depth at 57KG and 65KG is crazy considering that they have world golds there. Iran hit a lull for a few years but it looks they are more complete.

Reffing sucked and I'm not just talking about American matches. It seems they were missing basic stuff. In Spencer's semis match, they gave Spencer 4 to end it. As quick as the sequence was, I was sitting at home thinking it wasn't his 4 even before the replay. Got texts from others saying the same. A few other guys got robbed. I wonder if there will be stats on how many times a challenge was won because it seemed like a lot. The one positive is that reviews were fairly quick.
 
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JEDN said:
Right on the mark, great summary and the only regular poster on this site that I trust.
Click to expand...

Maybe @jrod65 or @AFHawk86 can give us a run down on the women’s side. I watched them all but not near as informed as these guys imo. Maybe Otto’s Dad can give us a Greco rundown.

Thanks for the kind words but we have some good, knowledgeable folks on here. I think the political, religious and general negativity runs them off.
 
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The women kicked ass.

Is that the in depth breakdown you were looking for @IAChief32?


Unfortunately, I didn't get to see all the matches this week. And I fear that I may have been a curse for Miracle and Parrish as they were the two competitors that I didn't see.

I did catch the rest, though, and they really impressed.

50kg - Hildebrandt had an amazing run to bring home her gold. She is well known for her lethal leg lace, but it was her defense that really shined this time. She was at her absolute best this tourny.

57kg - Maroulis became the 1st American woman to medal at 3 Olympics with her 2nd bronze. Looked great all tournament. Even battled champ Sakurai tough the 1st 1/2 of the semis. Had a quick fall for bronze.

68kg- Elor was everything that she was billed to be. The drop in weight didn't seem to affect her much. She controlled every opponent from the opening whistle. No match was really ever in doubt. She's going to be a force for a long time.

76- newest Hawkeye Blades showed some of that explosiveness that we all knew about. That suplex was nasty, nasty. What really stuck out to me, though, was her grittiness to make the finals. She showed a toughness to grind out some close wins that hadn't really been needed yet in her young career. Can't wait to see her join the Hawkeye squad.

I'm curious on the plans for Maroulis and Hildebrandt. Was this their last Olympics? Excited for the youngins Elor and Blades with their red hot starts of their sr level careers. Truly hope they don't end up fighting for the same spot...

Overall, this was the best team performance to date. Doubled the all time gold count, two finalists are just starting their journey, and more than a few talented youth ready to fight for their chance at a spot for '28.
 
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IAChief32 said:
Thanks for clarifying.
Click to expand...
Statement from USA Wrestling regarding Zain's withdrawal:

"...suffered a concussion while training in preparation for the Olympic games & had recovered prior to the competition.

During his bout against Amouzadkhali, his injury symptoms returned.

With support of his coaches and in consultation with medical stall, the decision was made...to withdraw from the tournament."


Sucks big time for Zain and any other wrestler who gets injured and can't compete at their best. No wonder he looked tired in the 2nd period. Not the way to end a stellar career. Feel bad for Yazdani as well.
 
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Pennstate1985 said:
Statement from USA Wrestling regarding Zain's withdrawal:

"...suffered a concussion while training in preparation for the Olympic games & had recovered prior to the competition.

During his bout against Amouzadkhali, his injury symptoms returned.

With support of his coaches and in consultation with medical stall, the decision was made...to withdraw from the tournament."


Sucks big time for Zain and any other wrestler who gets injured and can't compete at their best. No wonder he looked tired in the 2nd period. Not the way to end a stellar career. Feel bad for Yazdani as well.
Click to expand...

Yeah, too bad for Zain to get a concussion. Many on this board will recall Lincoln McIravy having to deal with coming back from a concussion. And before him, Ed Banach had suffered a number of concussions that led to long lasting headaches that made him hang up wrestling earlier than planned. Nasty things, and better to play it safe and step away.
 
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IAChief32 said:
Maybe @jrod65 or @AFHawk86 can give us a run down on the women’s side. I watched them all but not near as informed as these guys imo. Maybe Otto’s Dad can give us a Greco rundown.

Thanks for the kind words but we have some good, knowledgeable folks on here. I think the political, religious and general negativity runs them off.
Click to expand...
Not sure I can add much. Parrish was overmatched and Miracle lost a winnable match. I think our women will keep getting better since freestyle is wrestled in college. The men should let go of tradition and follow course. And one more thing…update the grounding rules!!
 
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jrod65 said:
The women kicked ass.

Is that the in depth breakdown you were looking for @IAChief32?


Unfortunately, I didn't get to see all the matches this week. And I fear that I may have been a curse for Miracle and Parrish as they were the two competitors that I didn't see.

I did catch the rest, though, and they really impressed.

50kg - Hildebrandt had an amazing run to bring home her gold. She is well known for her lethal leg lace, but it was her defense that really shined this time. She was at her absolute best this tourny.

57kg - Maroulis became the 1st American woman to medal at 3 Olympics with her 2nd bronze. Looked great all tournament. Even battled champ Sakurai tough the 1st 1/2 of the semis. Had a quick fall for bronze.

68kg- Elor was everything that she was billed to be. The drop in weight didn't seem to affect her much. She controlled every opponent from the opening whistle. No match was really ever in doubt. She's going to be a force for a long time.

76- newest Hawkeye Blades showed some of that explosiveness that we all knew about. That suplex was nasty, nasty. What really stuck out to me, though, was her grittiness to make the finals. She showed a toughness to grind out some close wins that hadn't really been needed yet in her young career. Can't wait to see her join the Hawkeye squad.

I'm curious on the plans for Maroulis and Hildebrandt. Was this their last Olympics? Excited for the youngins Elor and Blades with their red hot starts of their sr level careers. Truly hope they don't end up fighting for the same spot...

Overall, this was the best team performance to date. Doubled the all time gold count, two finalists are just starting their journey, and more than a few talented youth ready to fight for their chance at a spot for '28.
Click to expand...

Thanks man...I knew you'd come through.
 
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IAChief32 said:
57KG Spencer: Throughout this whole process, about as good a result as one could hope for except for getting the W against a tough opponent. No knee issues, no weight cut issues...just a chance to wrestle the best at the top of his game and he lost a close one. I mentioned earlier that this is just how he is wired. I also think that his body has betrayed him in one form or another since he was a junior in high school. I don't know that Spencer has had a year where he wasn't rehabbing something. As far as I know, this was it. And we could tell...he got bigger and looked great. But as far as he knows, this was his shot; it's a heckuva lot easier to be grateful when you've accomplished your goals or have a clear cut place in this sport for the next 4 years. To this fan, Spencer did great and I hope he finds peace with it.

57KG RBY: I think the cut hurt him but I also think his style does as well. He might of been the quickest (him or Higuchi) at the weight but needs to be able to apply it like Higuchi can. We've seen that he can be good at freestyle. I'd like to see him at his normal wt next year before making an informed decision

65KG Zain: There are reports today of a concussion in the first match? I do think cutting a crap ton of weight didn't help. Would have loved to see Zain go out with a medal. Injuries, weight issues etc has really made me appreciate John Smith's 6 year run.

65KG Rivera: Great run for Seabass. He gave the eventual winner (Japan) all he could handle before losing by 2 and then wrestling back for 3rd.

74KG Dake: Is this the last run for Kyle? If so, he has been one of our GOATS...just ask JB who said as much on the broadcast. I do think Dake somewhat forgot what got him here...his elite defense. He just didn't seem ready for Japan because his guy was ready for him. We got out coached here and didn't make adjustments in the second in relation to going for the chest wrap. Just an odd situation...he looked like the 20 year old Dake we all know and love in the match before that and suddenly looked his birth certificate age against Japan. IMO, that was perhaps the most shocking result of the men's tourney.

86KG Brooks: Aaron had a great tourney except for maybe a lapse in the last minute or two of his semis match. Rumor is he is going up to 92KG to eventually make 97 for LA. He will do well but it will be tough wrestling taller guys that are just as powerful or more than he is. He may end up being a tweener like Cox.

86KG Amine: I know he didn't medal but love this guy's fight.

97KG Snyder: I started writing a whole thing about KS dropping levels and is now the really tough "gate keeper" that finalists have to get through to win gold. But this is just an overreaction to the Iranian loss and not placing on my part because I remembered that this is his first senior tourney where he didn't medal since he started in 2015. He has earned a mulligan.

125KG Parris: He had about a good a draw as you could ask for but the Olympic lights shine pretty bright. MP looked totally gassed in the first period...almost like an adrenaline dump.

Overall, not our best year to say the least. We medaled at only 3 weights with no gold and this was without the Russian team (no lack of Russians tho). Japan and Iran looked great Japan's depth at 57KG and 65KG is crazy considering that they have world golds there. Iran hit a lull for a few years but it looks they are more complete.

Reffing sucked and I'm not just talking about American matches. It seems they were missing basic stuff. In Spencer's semis match, they gave Spencer 4 to end it. As quick as the sequence was, I was sitting at home thinking it wasn't his 4 even before the replay. Got texts from others saying the same. A few other guys got robbed. I wonder if there will be stats on how many times a challenge was won because it seemed like a lot. The one positive is that reviews were fairly quick.
Click to expand...
Very nice - thank you!
 
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Apologies for length. First, overall thoughts, then, weight by weight.

Overall - we can all be as disappointed as we all want, but its better than our depression. We had a historic quad that started with a historic Tokyo performance. We won 2 world titles this quad. Anybody acting like we need wholesale changes to our system is beyond nuts. We consistently finish top 4 in both the U17 and U20 championships. We also have depth with a bunch of half-time freestylers.

And no, there is very little the senior team can take from the Japanese wrestling federation. 3 hour practices, 2x a day, 6 days a week. NOT happening, nor should it. They focus on gymnastics at the senior level more than we do - something to the tune of at least 1 hour a day - very longs "WARMUPS" lol. And I'm not sure we were paying that much attention to Japan. As a program (MFS, WFS, GR) they had the most gold medals at: 2020(1) Olympics, 2023 Worlds, tied with US at 7 in 2022 Worlds and 3rd most golds at the 2021 Worlds when they sent the B team to the WFS portion.

It absolutely sucks that there are 6 weights. If we have 8 or 10? We'd all be a lot happier. Adding Vito to 61, Dake/JB/Starocci/Nolf to 79, and Zain to 70? Man. There's probably 2 yellow medals in there.

All that to say? We got arrogant. Both as a fans and as a team. We're spoiled as fans due to our recent success. But,the world is not afraid of Americans. Even without the official Russian team there, the rest of the world does not see us as the big bad bullies. One (kinda) funny reason for that is we won't purchase favor. We're not going to the play the politic games with the executive board or with the officials. We're not going to the grease the wheels. You can see that with the fact that we very rarely host any World Championships. It costs too much, and there are hidden "fees" that come with hosting. (Beyond the initial hosting fee, which i believe is close to or more than $1 million)

Due to a combination of age, personal circumstance and just hubris - we really didn't do enough. I'll try to break that down athlete by athlete.

57kg - Spencer lost to the better wrestler. As we've previously noted - Japan came to win. We probably didn't have the respect we should have had for Higuchi due to him losing to a juiced/heavy Micic. Its crazy to imagine that there is someone that can match Spencer toe to toe, but he can and more. Really hope that Spencer's second response to silver is his actual true feelings. (Not the silver sucks part). If training has truly changed for him - and its not just such a grind - I firmly believe he'll win every chip through the next quad. You saw him get better as the tournament went on. His savvy and athleticism were on full display. He definitely needed to change up his gameplan after seeing that Higuchi was much better in edge situations.

65kg - not much to write about here. Apparently injured just prior to competing. Earned the right to step out there. Definitely looked like a shell of himself. Not sure that he would have beaten Amouzad even healthy, but definitely would have competed for bronze.

74kg - Dake spend the entire quad not worrying about his head hands Defense. This is a case where arrogance bit us in the azz. It was awesome to see him shoot more. And he probably batted .800 when he shot. But he was just too willing to be in that chest wrap situation. He should have taken note after the Sidakov loss, but clearly had no fear of anyone in that situation. His bronze match should be shown to all youth wrestlers everywhere all the time. Calls are not going to go your way sometimes. So how do you handle it? With good old fashioned focus anger. Getting a 5 in that situation was just Dake's character shining through. Fierce competitor and, if he keeps shooting and adds a downblock EVERY NOW AND THEN - will continue to win medals through 2028.

86kg - Got better as the tournament went on, and, no, it wasn't a folkstyle mistake. He was just GASSED. Too much american pride after defending that Bow and Arrow - he should have take a full lunger. He wasn't ready to defend and respond to the onslaught. There is a bit of hubris and bad circumstance for Aaron here as well. He should have gone to the ranking series. But I think the weight cut was just too much, and, he clearly wasn't "worried" about getting some international competition prior to the Olympics. It would have helped him a lot. He would have realized where his tank would be and the adjustments he would have need to make. His bronze match showed exactly who he's going to be at 92kg. He's going to blast everyone away. That 97kg Olympic Trial final between him and Snyder is going to be epic.

97kg - Snyder hasn't regressed. The rest of the world has gotten better at conditioning. He's in the right room, but when he competes he's going to have to rely more on his wrestling than his conditioning. that was the gameplan against Taz and it just didn't work. Same with Azarpira. Snyder spent too much time "working" to score instead of just attacking. Snyder losing the right to score with his toe-step single has really affected the rest of his offense. But with that said, he still has it all. Low single, Ankle pick, Swing single, underhooks and hi-c's. I do think Snyder would do well to make an Iranian adjustment to his Hi-C (square chest to the leg, see below) - because he's still the most powerful guy in the weight.



125 - Nerves. A complete nervous wreck who tried to do too much and got completely gassed. Legitimately feel bad for him, because he was trying hard to score and win the match, but it was just bad strategy and thought pattern. His performance did not show how much improvement he's made in the past 2 years.
 
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I am kind of confused the extent of Yazdani's injury.

Dake not only was caught flat footed, he just looked not his usual self at all. And I noticed that NBC YouTube didn't upload that match.
 
Hawky42 said:
I am kind of confused the extent of Yazdani's injury.

Dake not only was caught flat footed, he just looked not his usual self at all. And I noticed that NBC YouTube didn't upload that match.
Click to expand...
He wasn't "caught flat footed"

Listen to his interview. He was completely comfortable there and thought the scoring would go his way.
 
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A lot of questions for team USA after Paris.

Dake and Zain are likely done. Snyder may go for 1 more cycle but if chatter is true about Brooks, I don't see Snyder making the team.

Who is next in line to replace;
Zain (Yanni, Mendez, Alirez, one of the young studs
Dake (Nolf, Mess, Levi)
Brooks, if he moves up (Zahid, Ringer, Star)
Can anyone unseat Paris (Kerk, Keuter?)

Unfortunately we only have 1 guy who looks like he has a realistic shot at the team, and that's if his body can survive 4 more years. Who would potentially be a contender to challenge Lee in 4 years (Lilledahl? Others?)

Question, why is SeaBass wrestling for PR and not for team USA? I suppose similar questions could be asked about Micic. Is it opportunity, coaching or other reasons?
 
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dtripp26 said:
A lot of questions for team USA after Paris.

Dake and Zain are likely done. Snyder may go for 1 more cycle but if chatter is true about Brooks, I don't see Snyder making the team.

Who is next in line to replace;
Zain (Yanni, Mendez, Alirez, one of the young students
Dake (Nolf, Mess, Levi)
Brooks, if he moves up (Zahid, Ringer, Star)
Can anyone unseat Paris (Kerk, Keuter?)

Unfortunately we only have 1 guy who looks like he has a realistic shot at the team, and that's if his body can survive 4 more years. Who would potentially be a contender to challenge Lee in 4 years (Lilledahl? Others?)

Question, why is SeaBass wrestling for PR and not for team USA? I suppose similar questions could be asked about Micic. Is it opportunity, coaching or other reasons?
Click to expand...
Certainly you know the answer to this. Take a guaranteed spot or run a gauntlet at USA team trials.
 
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dtripp26 said:
A lot of questions for team USA after Paris.

Dake and Zain are likely done. Snyder may go for 1 more cycle but if chatter is true about Brooks, I don't see Snyder making the team.

Who is next in line to replace;
Zain (Yanni, Mendez, Alirez, one of the young students
Dake (Nolf, Mess, Levi)
Brooks, if he moves up (Zahid, Ringer, Star)
Can anyone unseat Paris (Kerk, Keuter?)

Unfortunately we only have 1 guy who looks like he has a realistic shot at the team, and that's if his body can survive 4 more years. Who would potentially be a contender to challenge Lee in 4 years (Lilledahl? Others?)

Question, why is SeaBass wrestling for PR and not for team USA? I suppose similar questions could be asked about Micic. Is it opportunity, coaching or other reasons?
Click to expand...
KOT might factor in there somewhere.
 
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dtripp26 said:
A lot of questions for team USA after Paris.

Who is next in line to replace;
Zain (Yanni, Mendez, Alirez, one of the young students
Dake (Nolf, Mess, Levi)
Brooks, if he moves up (Zahid, Ringer, Star)
Can anyone unseat Paris (Kerk, Keuter?)

Unfortunately we only have 1 guy who looks like he has a realistic shot at the team, and that's if his body can survive 4 more years. Who would potentially be a contender to challenge Lee in 4 years (Lilledahl? Others?)

Question, why is SeaBass wrestling for PR and not for team USA? I suppose similar questions could be asked about Micic. Is it opportunity, coaching or other reasons?
Click to expand...

Vito will be moving up to 65 KG. Book it.
 
24timenattychamps said:
Guys like SBass, RBY, and Amine took the easy way out. Sorry not sorry. Don’t get why Americans would get behind them at all.
Click to expand...
Because it opens doors for all Americans. It helps senior level wrestling and college as well having them still compete. If they couldn’t many would likely move on to other careers or mma. I’d rather see them wrestling wherever it might be.
 
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24timenattychamps said:
Guys like SBass, RBY, and Amine took the easy way out. Sorry not sorry. Don’t get why Americans would get behind them at all.
Click to expand...
Serious question, wonder if the Russians feel this way about their guys who jumped to other countries.
When these guys compete outside their home countries it makes for tougher brackets and better matches.
It’s a double edged sword. ⚔️
 
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