No I do care, this thread is about the Bible’s teachings of homosexuality. Not the sins of the president. Like a typical beta liberal, you can’t argue the original point so have to resort to moving the goalposts.
Methodists and Homosexuality...
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No I do care, this thread is about the Bible’s teachings of homosexuality. Not the sins of the president. Like a typical beta liberal, you can’t argue the original point so have to resort to moving the goalposts.
Thank you. Thank you. At least you acknowledge Donald Trump is going to burn in hell. Friends?
And for me. But if there’s a hell, this is way down the list of reasons why I’ll be there.
If I followed the Bible my slaves would have raked my leaves, I would have screwed my slave's wives and taken them for my own, sacrificed my eldest son to get the yard work done faster, and finally would have banged my sister to keep our blood line going given both God and I had to murder my own children. Then some hippy would have forgiven us both for whatever we did because he was so stoned out of his gourd that the thought he was the son of God.
The Preacher series (comic) or AE version has the best condemnation for God that I can think of. I'm sort of drunk. Generally I am a friendly atheist, but tonight all your believers are effing Morans.
The Preacher series (comic) or AE version has the best condemnation for God that I can think of. I'm sort of drunk. Generally I am a friendly atheist, but tonight all your believers are effing Morans.
I don't need the old testament to win this one dipshit. So Jesus gave love to a prostitute? Prostitutes are better than gays?
I'll gladly argue the original point. The Bible never ONCE addresses "homosexuality." Not once, not ever. The word “homosexuality” didn’t even show up in English translations of the Bible until 1946.
No serious biblical scholar thinks this is true.
Ahh a technicality. Ok, it may have not used that exact word, but it certainly described the behavior.
you didn't read the link. I don't blame you. It explains how it does not "forbid" the behavior any more than it forbids any other sexual behavior.
Jesus made it pretty clear that he represented the Father and everything that he outlined in the original book.
not really. the methodists are liberal as heck . the church my wife went to in mizzou was like a bunch of guitar playing hippies and such
Christ accepted everybody. And Methodists are a sect of the CHRISTian church. Therefore, Christian churches are dedicated to the teachings of Jesus Christ....not the Bible necessarily. Especially the Old Testament. Christ teaches us forgiveness and compassion as its basic tenants, right? Christ was all about love of fellow man and forgiveness of sins.
The Church should welcome and embrace all who seek its grace.
Does the Bible condemn stupidity? Bigotry? Stupid bigotry?
Just to be clear, I think the Methodist church doesn't explicitly exclude homosexuals from membership, just from leadership (but someone correct me if I'm wrong).
This issue is probably the biggest struggle I have as a Christian.
Facts are scientifically proven. What in the bible would you consider facts?
hawkeyetraveler
HR All-American
Technically the original writings were from people than Brawn would never allow into this country as they (and Jesus) would not have looked “white”. Of course since then society has done everything they can to make Christianity as white as possible in language transcription, symbols, etc.
hawkeyetraveler
HR All-American
Actually the problem is you are only looking at one point.
You preach that homosexuality is amoral per the Bible, but that you are OK with a bunch of other biblically amoral behaviors (of our president for instance) if it suits your purpose.
Since apparently HROT is in a preachy mood, maybe you should try this on for size:
Mathew 6:1 “Beware of practicing your righteousness before other people in order to be seen by them, for then you will have no reward from your Father who is in heaven.”
Enjoy the fire and brimstone you hypocrite.
This is false. There is only forgiveness through the death and resurrection of Christ. No effort on mans part can bring about righteousness.
Some of the books of the Bible were not added until hundreds of years after Christ, Revlations being one.
What's interesting is the membership who voted to maintain the "traditional" aspect of the UMC.
The church has a HUGE international membership, including huge factions in Africa (something like 30% of the overall membership), Russia, and other repressed areas. Those were the loudest voices of dissent against making the UMC what it should be. The vast majority of US and western European conferences were on the right side of the vote.
The church has a HUGE international membership, including huge factions in Africa (something like 30% of the overall membership), Russia, and other repressed areas. Those were the loudest voices of dissent against making the UMC what it should be. The vast majority of US and western European conferences were on the right side of the vote.
^^^^^^This is what is tearing the church apart. Many feel it is the churches roll to accept and not to judge. Let god be the judge. The Methodists have a mess. As already stated the vote was global and it was a heavy vote in other parts of the world (namely Africa) to condemn homosexuality. With it being an all or nothing vote everyone is to accept how the majority feels. That's not working.
Even non homosexuals are leaving the church for a more accepting atmosphere. Some individuals who aren't leaving are withholding financial support. Some churches with a majority of unhappy parishioners are withholding their financial support from conference. There was one confirmation class (either in western Iowa or eastern Nebraska) which decided as a group they did not want to be confirmed and the pastor supported their desire.
Real shitstorm going on for those folks at a time when religion is already starting to take a backseat for an increasing number of people.
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Why does this one “sin”, out of hundreds mentioned in the Bible, mean so much to you?
What about the crazy parts that appear in the OT and NT? If you don’t condone these acts are you really a Christian?
Works both ways.
Lol, so Jesus or God is in heaven watching man on man porn making decisions about the afterlife?
hawkeyetraveler
HR All-American
In Brawn’s world apparently it is better to be a murderer once than to sleep with another guy twice..since the murderer didn’t do it again.
So apparently he really believes the answer to your question is yes. Yes a God of mercy is really looking down on us and denying people love and passion they feel naturally, but is ok with hate and evil as long as it was only that one time, or as long as it served the purpose of white evangelical dogma.
Sister raping is cool, though.
And when she had presented him the meat, he took hold of her, and said: Come lie with me, my sister. She answered him: Do not so, my brother, do not force me: for no such thing must be done in Israel. Do not thou this folly. [II Kings 13:8-12] But he would not hearken to her prayers, but being stronger overpowered her and lay with her. [II Kings 13:14]
And when she had presented him the meat, he took hold of her, and said: Come lie with me, my sister. She answered him: Do not so, my brother, do not force me: for no such thing must be done in Israel. Do not thou this folly. [II Kings 13:8-12] But he would not hearken to her prayers, but being stronger overpowered her and lay with her. [II Kings 13:14]
About 15 years ago in the small town of Winfield the Methodist preacher was woman. She had a woman that lived with her. During a woman’s group one night the topic of homosexuality came up and the old ladies in the group said that they condemned it and gays should be allowed in the church. The preacher informed the group that the woman was her partner. For some reason no none had a clue. The preacher didn’t attend another Sunday worship because she was removed from the church. The old ladies went crazy.
It says that people shouldn't engage in homosexual acts. It says nothing about people having attractions.
The Bible is pretty clear on lots of sins, such as adultery and divorce, but the Gospels really point at the treatment of the poor, to which our fundamentalist Christians don't seem to pay attention.
Except that's actually not true at all. The Bible isn't nearly as "clear" as you think it is.
Just one man’s opinion but a lot of good intentions in this thread but both sides are missing the point.
Non-Christians/Methodists - Lots of pointing to the Old Testament for examples of crude/immoral behavior of which there are lots. None of it however was allowed by God. Basically lots of straw-man arguments being made here.
Christian/Methodists - Focus on sections of the Bible of which do clearly state homosexuality is a sin (both Old & New Testaments). Additionally, lots of focus on Christianity and the Golden Rule/forgiveness.
All good talking points above on both sides but still misses THE point.
The discussion is about one sect of the Church deciding not to allow leadership who is openly committing sin to not lead.
Let's be clear - God hates sin! He abhors it! He cannot be in the presence of sin. That is why he sent His Son to die for us, to pay that ransom we do not deserve. We have all been judged as sinners from birth. None of us could prove our worthiness!
Many stories documented in the Old Testament where the Jews repeatedly, over & over again strayed from the first mission of surrendering all to God. They wrote their own laws and thought they had the inside-track. If you want to know why the Old Testament is so long it is because there are countless stories of the Jews straying from God's path and time and time again, God shows compassion to try to get them back on track. Time and time and time again the Jews strayed but God was forever faithful. Like a good parent though, God had to use some pretty forceful tactics to get their attention!
Now, in this particular case, we are talking about the sin of homosexuality. Had the pastor used fowl language, used the church's finances inappropriately, or got too close with a minor then the church would be right to remove them from leadership as well. The Bible clearly states that those who lead the church will be held to a higher standard. The right to remove is Biblically just.
Should the Methodist church forgive and provide compassion? Sure, they do not have to kick them out of the family and can provide counsel to them to get them back on the right path.
Christians (Methodists included) first purpose is not to forgive and provide compassion. The Golden Rule is a nice cornerstone for a daily framework to live a God-inspired life. But it is not our first mission.
Where many folks get confused by what being a Christian means, is that to be a Christian means to SURRENDER to Jesus Christ, your personal Lord and Savior. That is our first mission!
This means you should surrender your time, your finances, your heart, and all of your desires and put them at the feet of God. If you accept this, then you also accept that Jesus is truth, Biblical truth, and you should speak it and act on it. As the Methodist leadership did when they decided to not give in to modern-day human-inspired pressures but to adhere to the truth that all sin is judged bad and you cannot lead the flock.
Bottom line - the Methodists made the right decision, albeit unpopular by today's standards but being a good Christian is not about being popular - it's about surrendering to God's truth.
Non-Christians/Methodists - Lots of pointing to the Old Testament for examples of crude/immoral behavior of which there are lots. None of it however was allowed by God. Basically lots of straw-man arguments being made here.
Christian/Methodists - Focus on sections of the Bible of which do clearly state homosexuality is a sin (both Old & New Testaments). Additionally, lots of focus on Christianity and the Golden Rule/forgiveness.
All good talking points above on both sides but still misses THE point.
The discussion is about one sect of the Church deciding not to allow leadership who is openly committing sin to not lead.
Let's be clear - God hates sin! He abhors it! He cannot be in the presence of sin. That is why he sent His Son to die for us, to pay that ransom we do not deserve. We have all been judged as sinners from birth. None of us could prove our worthiness!
Many stories documented in the Old Testament where the Jews repeatedly, over & over again strayed from the first mission of surrendering all to God. They wrote their own laws and thought they had the inside-track. If you want to know why the Old Testament is so long it is because there are countless stories of the Jews straying from God's path and time and time again, God shows compassion to try to get them back on track. Time and time and time again the Jews strayed but God was forever faithful. Like a good parent though, God had to use some pretty forceful tactics to get their attention!
Now, in this particular case, we are talking about the sin of homosexuality. Had the pastor used fowl language, used the church's finances inappropriately, or got too close with a minor then the church would be right to remove them from leadership as well. The Bible clearly states that those who lead the church will be held to a higher standard. The right to remove is Biblically just.
Should the Methodist church forgive and provide compassion? Sure, they do not have to kick them out of the family and can provide counsel to them to get them back on the right path.
Christians (Methodists included) first purpose is not to forgive and provide compassion. The Golden Rule is a nice cornerstone for a daily framework to live a God-inspired life. But it is not our first mission.
Where many folks get confused by what being a Christian means, is that to be a Christian means to SURRENDER to Jesus Christ, your personal Lord and Savior. That is our first mission!
This means you should surrender your time, your finances, your heart, and all of your desires and put them at the feet of God. If you accept this, then you also accept that Jesus is truth, Biblical truth, and you should speak it and act on it. As the Methodist leadership did when they decided to not give in to modern-day human-inspired pressures but to adhere to the truth that all sin is judged bad and you cannot lead the flock.
Bottom line - the Methodists made the right decision, albeit unpopular by today's standards but being a good Christian is not about being popular - it's about surrendering to God's truth.
The United Methodist church I went to as a kid and served as an altar boy has had an open lesbian as pastor for several years now.
(Edit Apparently she’s not open enough. I saw an article that says some other woman is the first openly lesbian pastor but no one thinks it’s a secret about ours).
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yeah the ones I know of thru family had all kinds of hippy 60's love child stuff going on, flower children. they also started or have something to do with salvation army. go to one of their stores and talk to the people working there. or really the management. the higher ups. at least in Austin, it's strange.
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