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Question about Heaven..

The system always seemed so flawed to me.

I used to work at a halfway house. We had one guy that has spent over 40 years in prison and was released early due to cancer. He had become a hardcore Christian. It's all he talked about was his personal relationship with Christ. To be fair, he wasn't the sharpest knife in the drawer. He told me once he killed a guy in prison because he didn't pay him over a football bet. But the guy loved Jesus.

On the flip side, I've met people in Asia that were the kindest, hardest working fathers and husbands that you'll ever meet. Great people that walk a straight line. No crime, faithful to family, solid member of the community, etc. However, they aren't Christian. They are born into a Buddhist culture.

Why is it the killer and thug who loved Jesus gets to go to Heaven while the Vietnamese father spends eternity in hell simply due to a geographical situation? It just doesn't make sense.
 
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Breastman said:
The system always seemed so flawed to me.

I used to work at a halfway house. We had one guy that has spent over 40 years in prison and was released early due to cancer. He had become a hardcore Christian. It's all he talked about was his personal relationship with Christ. To be fair, he wasn't the sharpest knife in the drawer. He told me once he killed a guy in prison because he didn't pay him over a football bet. But the guy loved Jesus.

On the flip side, I've met people in Asia that were the kindest, hardest working fathers and husbands that you'll ever meet. Great people that walk a straight line. No crime, faithful to family, solid member of the community, etc. However, they aren't Christian. They are born into a Buddhist culture.

Why is it the killer and thug who loved Jesus gets to go to Heaven while the Vietnamese father spends eternity in hell simply due to a geographical situation? It just doesn't make sense.
Click to expand...

As I understand it, people who haven't heard the "Good News" about Jesus don't go to hell. It's only the people who reject Jesus who go to hell.
 
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Breastman said:
The system always seemed so flawed to me.

I used to work at a halfway house. We had one guy that has spent over 40 years in prison and was released early due to cancer. He had become a hardcore Christian. It's all he talked about was his personal relationship with Christ. To be fair, he wasn't the sharpest knife in the drawer. He told me once he killed a guy in prison because he didn't pay him over a football bet. But the guy loved Jesus.

On the flip side, I've met people in Asia that were the kindest, hardest working fathers and husbands that you'll ever meet. Great people that walk a straight line. No crime, faithful to family, solid member of the community, etc. However, they aren't Christian. They are born into a Buddhist culture.

Why is it the killer and thug who loved Jesus gets to go to Heaven while the Vietnamese father spends eternity in hell simply due to a geographical situation? It just doesn't make sense.
Click to expand...

Who claimed that was the case?
 
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If Jesus is spotted floating down from the heavens tomorrow and I don't know about it until CNN live coverage, is that too late to be a believer?
 
NoleATL said:
Worship me or linger in hell for eternity. Sounds more narcissistic than loving.
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Precisely. This is not a loving god. Some denominations place more emphasis on good works which seems like a more reasonable theology.

I would also suggest that an eternal burning hell is unethical as well.
 
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ELCHawk said:
I grew up in a conservative Reformed church in NW Iowa. Growing up I was big in the church.

But one problem I always had was if God is a loving God why do good people who are not Christian burn in Hell for eternity?

Today at 48 I am an agnostic that doesn't go to church (for a few reasons including politics). I still question that.

If there is a loving God, how can good people of different religions or no religion not make it to Heaven?
Click to expand...
11 Lazarus, who lived in Bethany, the village where Mary and her sister Martha lived, was sick. 2 (Mary was the woman who poured perfume on the Lord and wiped his feet with her hair. Her brother Lazarus was the one who was sick.)

3 So the sisters sent a messenger to tell Jesus, “Lord, your close friend is sick.”

4 When Jesus heard the message, he said, “His sickness won’t result in death. Instead, this sickness will bring glory to God so that the Son of God will receive glory through it.”

5 Jesus loved Martha, her sister, and Lazarus. 6 Yet, when Jesus heard that Lazarus was sick, he stayed where he was for two more days.

7 Then, after the two days, Jesus said to his disciples, “Let’s go back to Judea.”

8 The disciples said to him, “Rabbi, not long ago the Jews wanted to stone you to death. Do you really want to go back there?”

9 Jesus answered, “Aren’t there twelve hours of daylight? Those who walk during the day don’t stumble, because they see the light of this world. 10 However, those who walk at night stumble because they have no light in themselves.”

11 After Jesus said this, he told his disciples, “Our friend Lazarus is sleeping, and I’m going to Bethany to wake him.”

12 His disciples said to him, “Lord, if he’s sleeping, he’ll get well.”

13 Jesus meant that Lazarus was dead, but the disciples thought Jesus meant that Lazarus was only sleeping. 14 Then Jesus told them plainly, “Lazarus has died, 15 but I’m glad that I wasn’t there so that you can grow in faith. Let’s go to Lazarus.”

16 Thomas, who was called Didymus, said to the rest of the disciples, “Let’s go so that we, too, can die with Jesus.”

17 When Jesus arrived, he found that Lazarus had been in the tomb for four days. 18 (Bethany was near Jerusalem, not quite two miles away.) 19 Many Jews had come to Martha and Mary to comfort them about their brother.

20 When Martha heard that Jesus was coming, she went to meet him. Mary stayed at home. 21 Martha told Jesus, “Lord, if you had been here, my brother would not have died. 22 But even now I know that God will give you whatever you ask him.”

23 Jesus told Martha, “Your brother will come back to life.”

24 Martha answered Jesus, “I know that he’ll come back to life on the last day, when everyone will come back to life.”

25 Jesus said to her, “I am the one who brings people back to life, and I am life itself. Those who believe in me will live even if they die. 26 Everyone who lives and believes in me will never die. Do you believe that?”

27 Martha said to him, “Yes, Lord, I believe that you are the Messiah, the Son of God, the one who was expected to come into the world.”

28 After Martha had said this, she went back home and whispered to her sister Mary, “The teacher is here, and he is calling for you.”

29 When Mary heard this, she got up quickly and went to Jesus. 30 (Jesus had not yet come into the village but was still where Martha had met him.) 31 The Jews who were comforting Mary in the house saw her get up quickly and leave. So they followed her. They thought that she was going to the tomb to cry. 32 When Mary arrived where Jesus was and saw him, she knelt at his feet and said, “Lord, if you had been here, my brother would not have died.”

33 When Jesus saw her crying, and the Jews who were crying with her, he was deeply moved and troubled.

34 So Jesus asked, “Where did you put Lazarus?”

They answered him, “Lord, come and see.”

35 Jesus cried. 36 The Jews said, “See how much Jesus loved him.” 37 But some of the Jews asked, “Couldn’t this man who gave a blind man sight keep Lazarus from dying?”

38 Deeply moved again, Jesus went to the tomb. It was a cave with a stone covering the entrance. 39 Jesus said, “Take the stone away.”

Martha, the dead man’s sister, told Jesus, “Lord, there must already be a stench. He’s been dead for four days.”

40 Jesus said to her, “Didn’t I tell you that if you believe, you would see God’s glory?” 41 So the stone was moved away from the entrance of the tomb.

Jesus looked up and said, “Father, I thank you for hearing me. 42 I’ve known that you always hear me. However, I’ve said this so that the crowd standing around me will believe that you sent me.” 43 After Jesus had said this, he shouted as loudly as he could, “Lazarus, come out!”

44 The dead man came out. Strips of cloth were wound around his feet and hands, and his face was wrapped with a handkerchief. Jesus told them, “Free Lazarus, and let him go.”

Jesus said we just go to sleep when we die. Those who didn't live in God's word will just remain in sleep. Those who did shall (IMO) walk in Eden again after the world is reset.
 
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Sharky1203 said:
11 Lazarus, who lived in Bethany, the village where Mary and her sister Martha lived, was sick. 2 (Mary was the woman who poured perfume on the Lord and wiped his feet with her hair. Her brother Lazarus was the one who was sick.)

3 So the sisters sent a messenger to tell Jesus, “Lord, your close friend is sick.”

4 When Jesus heard the message, he said, “His sickness won’t result in death. Instead, this sickness will bring glory to God so that the Son of God will receive glory through it.”

5 Jesus loved Martha, her sister, and Lazarus. 6 Yet, when Jesus heard that Lazarus was sick, he stayed where he was for two more days.

7 Then, after the two days, Jesus said to his disciples, “Let’s go back to Judea.”

8 The disciples said to him, “Rabbi, not long ago the Jews wanted to stone you to death. Do you really want to go back there?”

9 Jesus answered, “Aren’t there twelve hours of daylight? Those who walk during the day don’t stumble, because they see the light of this world. 10 However, those who walk at night stumble because they have no light in themselves.”

11 After Jesus said this, he told his disciples, “Our friend Lazarus is sleeping, and I’m going to Bethany to wake him.”

12 His disciples said to him, “Lord, if he’s sleeping, he’ll get well.”

13 Jesus meant that Lazarus was dead, but the disciples thought Jesus meant that Lazarus was only sleeping. 14 Then Jesus told them plainly, “Lazarus has died, 15 but I’m glad that I wasn’t there so that you can grow in faith. Let’s go to Lazarus.”

16 Thomas, who was called Didymus, said to the rest of the disciples, “Let’s go so that we, too, can die with Jesus.”

17 When Jesus arrived, he found that Lazarus had been in the tomb for four days. 18 (Bethany was near Jerusalem, not quite two miles away.) 19 Many Jews had come to Martha and Mary to comfort them about their brother.

20 When Martha heard that Jesus was coming, she went to meet him. Mary stayed at home. 21 Martha told Jesus, “Lord, if you had been here, my brother would not have died. 22 But even now I know that God will give you whatever you ask him.”

23 Jesus told Martha, “Your brother will come back to life.”

24 Martha answered Jesus, “I know that he’ll come back to life on the last day, when everyone will come back to life.”

25 Jesus said to her, “I am the one who brings people back to life, and I am life itself. Those who believe in me will live even if they die. 26 Everyone who lives and believes in me will never die. Do you believe that?”

27 Martha said to him, “Yes, Lord, I believe that you are the Messiah, the Son of God, the one who was expected to come into the world.”

28 After Martha had said this, she went back home and whispered to her sister Mary, “The teacher is here, and he is calling for you.”

29 When Mary heard this, she got up quickly and went to Jesus. 30 (Jesus had not yet come into the village but was still where Martha had met him.) 31 The Jews who were comforting Mary in the house saw her get up quickly and leave. So they followed her. They thought that she was going to the tomb to cry. 32 When Mary arrived where Jesus was and saw him, she knelt at his feet and said, “Lord, if you had been here, my brother would not have died.”

33 When Jesus saw her crying, and the Jews who were crying with her, he was deeply moved and troubled.

34 So Jesus asked, “Where did you put Lazarus?”

They answered him, “Lord, come and see.”

35 Jesus cried. 36 The Jews said, “See how much Jesus loved him.” 37 But some of the Jews asked, “Couldn’t this man who gave a blind man sight keep Lazarus from dying?”

38 Deeply moved again, Jesus went to the tomb. It was a cave with a stone covering the entrance. 39 Jesus said, “Take the stone away.”

Martha, the dead man’s sister, told Jesus, “Lord, there must already be a stench. He’s been dead for four days.”

40 Jesus said to her, “Didn’t I tell you that if you believe, you would see God’s glory?” 41 So the stone was moved away from the entrance of the tomb.

Jesus looked up and said, “Father, I thank you for hearing me. 42 I’ve known that you always hear me. However, I’ve said this so that the crowd standing around me will believe that you sent me.” 43 After Jesus had said this, he shouted as loudly as he could, “Lazarus, come out!”

44 The dead man came out. Strips of cloth were wound around his feet and hands, and his face was wrapped with a handkerchief. Jesus told them, “Free Lazarus, and let him go.”

Jesus said we just go to sleep when we die. Those who didn't live in God's word will just remain in sleep. Those who did shall (IMO) walk in Eden again after the world is reset.
Click to expand...
Pretty convenient logic don’t ya think?
 
Sharky1203 said:
11 Lazarus, who lived in Bethany, the village where Mary and her sister Martha lived, was sick. 2 (Mary was the woman who poured perfume on the Lord and wiped his feet with her hair. Her brother Lazarus was the one who was sick.)

3 So the sisters sent a messenger to tell Jesus, “Lord, your close friend is sick.”

4 When Jesus heard the message, he said, “His sickness won’t result in death. Instead, this sickness will bring glory to God so that the Son of God will receive glory through it.”

5 Jesus loved Martha, her sister, and Lazarus. 6 Yet, when Jesus heard that Lazarus was sick, he stayed where he was for two more days.

7 Then, after the two days, Jesus said to his disciples, “Let’s go back to Judea.”

8 The disciples said to him, “Rabbi, not long ago the Jews wanted to stone you to death. Do you really want to go back there?”

9 Jesus answered, “Aren’t there twelve hours of daylight? Those who walk during the day don’t stumble, because they see the light of this world. 10 However, those who walk at night stumble because they have no light in themselves.”

11 After Jesus said this, he told his disciples, “Our friend Lazarus is sleeping, and I’m going to Bethany to wake him.”

12 His disciples said to him, “Lord, if he’s sleeping, he’ll get well.”

13 Jesus meant that Lazarus was dead, but the disciples thought Jesus meant that Lazarus was only sleeping. 14 Then Jesus told them plainly, “Lazarus has died, 15 but I’m glad that I wasn’t there so that you can grow in faith. Let’s go to Lazarus.”

16 Thomas, who was called Didymus, said to the rest of the disciples, “Let’s go so that we, too, can die with Jesus.”

17 When Jesus arrived, he found that Lazarus had been in the tomb for four days. 18 (Bethany was near Jerusalem, not quite two miles away.) 19 Many Jews had come to Martha and Mary to comfort them about their brother.

20 When Martha heard that Jesus was coming, she went to meet him. Mary stayed at home. 21 Martha told Jesus, “Lord, if you had been here, my brother would not have died. 22 But even now I know that God will give you whatever you ask him.”

23 Jesus told Martha, “Your brother will come back to life.”

24 Martha answered Jesus, “I know that he’ll come back to life on the last day, when everyone will come back to life.”

25 Jesus said to her, “I am the one who brings people back to life, and I am life itself. Those who believe in me will live even if they die. 26 Everyone who lives and believes in me will never die. Do you believe that?”

27 Martha said to him, “Yes, Lord, I believe that you are the Messiah, the Son of God, the one who was expected to come into the world.”

28 After Martha had said this, she went back home and whispered to her sister Mary, “The teacher is here, and he is calling for you.”

29 When Mary heard this, she got up quickly and went to Jesus. 30 (Jesus had not yet come into the village but was still where Martha had met him.) 31 The Jews who were comforting Mary in the house saw her get up quickly and leave. So they followed her. They thought that she was going to the tomb to cry. 32 When Mary arrived where Jesus was and saw him, she knelt at his feet and said, “Lord, if you had been here, my brother would not have died.”

33 When Jesus saw her crying, and the Jews who were crying with her, he was deeply moved and troubled.

34 So Jesus asked, “Where did you put Lazarus?”

They answered him, “Lord, come and see.”

35 Jesus cried. 36 The Jews said, “See how much Jesus loved him.” 37 But some of the Jews asked, “Couldn’t this man who gave a blind man sight keep Lazarus from dying?”

38 Deeply moved again, Jesus went to the tomb. It was a cave with a stone covering the entrance. 39 Jesus said, “Take the stone away.”

Martha, the dead man’s sister, told Jesus, “Lord, there must already be a stench. He’s been dead for four days.”

40 Jesus said to her, “Didn’t I tell you that if you believe, you would see God’s glory?” 41 So the stone was moved away from the entrance of the tomb.

Jesus looked up and said, “Father, I thank you for hearing me. 42 I’ve known that you always hear me. However, I’ve said this so that the crowd standing around me will believe that you sent me.” 43 After Jesus had said this, he shouted as loudly as he could, “Lazarus, come out!”

44 The dead man came out. Strips of cloth were wound around his feet and hands, and his face was wrapped with a handkerchief. Jesus told them, “Free Lazarus, and let him go.”

Jesus said we just go to sleep when we die. Those who didn't live in God's word will just remain in sleep. Those who did shall (IMO) walk in Eden again after the world is reset.
Click to expand...
Mark 12:34-At this Jesus, discerning that he had answered intelligently, said to him: “You are not far from the Kingdom of God.” But no one had the courage to question him anymore.

Actually those who didn’t know about God didn’t have a chance to learn about Him would be the “unrighteous “ that Jesus said would also be resurrected at John 5:28,29. They would be resurrected and given a chance to learn about God and His purpose .
 
ELCHawk said:
I grew up in a conservative Reformed church in NW Iowa. Growing up I was big in the church.

But one problem I always had was if God is a loving God why do good people who are not Christian burn in Hell for eternity?

Today at 48 I am an agnostic that doesn't go to church (for a few reasons including politics). I still question that.

If there is a loving God, how can good people of different religions or no religion not make it to Heaven?
Click to expand...
Furthermore, bad people can get into heaven...

Biblically, you only need to believe in Jesus to get into heaven. There's more to it, but without that you're not getting in.

Being a good person is totally independent from spirituality, faith, god, Jesus, Allah, Buddha, etc. being a good person is just sort of something society demands in order for our world to even exist. Most people have to be good people. Doing good things for others is just to be expected, still has no connection to religion.

Meanwhile, Larry the insufferable asshole can murder 20 people, discover Jesus in prison and become a believer, and make it to heaven.

I'm no theologian, but IMO this is what makes it hard for us as humans. We view life as our 75-85 years on earth. In comparison to eternity, our 75-85 year life is like a sneeze back when you were 5, over in an instant and completely unmemorable.

God wants belief/reliance on him, and to him the goings on in our world are rather... insignificant.
 
Breastman said:
The system always seemed so flawed to me.

I used to work at a halfway house. We had one guy that has spent over 40 years in prison and was released early due to cancer. He had become a hardcore Christian. It's all he talked about was his personal relationship with Christ. To be fair, he wasn't the sharpest knife in the drawer. He told me once he killed a guy in prison because he didn't pay him over a football bet. But the guy loved Jesus.

On the flip side, I've met people in Asia that were the kindest, hardest working fathers and husbands that you'll ever meet. Great people that walk a straight line. No crime, faithful to family, solid member of the community, etc. However, they aren't Christian. They are born into a Buddhist culture.

Why is it the killer and thug who loved Jesus gets to go to Heaven while the Vietnamese father spends eternity in hell simply due to a geographical situation? It just doesn't make sense.
Click to expand...
I caught on to all of this inconsistency by middle school age and shortly thereafter began to question everything within my religion, the Bible, etc., vexing my poor pastor to the point where he didn't even want to engage in conversations with me anymore.

I'm best described as a Possibilist. There's absolutely no proof any of our religion and practices are true and reliable, but I also realize humans are at best glorified apes, we're all animals, and animals are limited in their knowledge and insight into the observable world and that which is unseen.

I like to believe that the stories of God, Jesus, eternal life are possibilities, but hard evidence to prove they are indeed truthful and reliable will always be lacking I'm afraid.
 
Obviously Oblivious said:
I caught on to all of this inconsistency by middle school age and shortly thereafter began to question everything within my religion, the Bible, etc., vexing my poor pastor to the point where he didn't even want to engage in conversations with me anymore.

I'm best described as a Possibilist. There's absolutely no proof any of our religion and practices are true and reliable, but I also realize humans are at best glorified apes, we're all animals, and animals are limited in their knowledge and insight into the observable world and that which is unseen.

I like to believe that the stories of God, Jesus, eternal life are possibilities, but hard evidence to prove they are indeed truthful and reliable will always be lacking I'm afraid.
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Adam and Eve had the prospect of living forever. Only after they willfully chose to disobey Gods clear command did they lose that possibility for themselves and all of their descendants.
Jesus sacrifice opened the way for faithful mankind to have that possibility again.
Gods original purpose was to have perfect humans living on a paradise earth. That hasn’t changed . (Isaiah 55:10,11)
This is part of his “will “ that we pray about in the Lords Prayer.
 
Whiskeydeltadeltatango said:
Titty bars are though!
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will-ferrell-can-i-get-an-amen.gif
 
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the24fan said:
Mark 12:34-At this Jesus, discerning that he had answered intelligently, said to him: “You are not far from the Kingdom of God.” But no one had the courage to question him anymore.

Actually those who didn’t know about God didn’t have a chance to learn about Him would be the “unrighteous “ that Jesus said would also be resurrected at John 5:28,29. They would be resurrected and given a chance to learn about God and His purpose .
Click to expand...
This why I was debating even putting a post. Roman Catholics invented the heaven and hell thing. It was the way they gained control and started wars. It struck fear into common peasants in order to collect tax on the people. There has been a lot of blood shed over the very notion of heaven and hell.

In many points of the Bible there are references to death as going to sleep. Jesus makes many cases in reference to the Kingdom of God. When you go to sleep tonight for (let's say 8 hr as an example) you will wake up in a new day. 8 hrs of sleeping doesn't feel like anything (in relation to time). Kingdom of God is all around you. God created all and his Kingdom is all around you.

To think that one of his beloved creations was so bad that they would be sent to someplace to be tortured forever doesn't even make sense with a God of love. In Revelations John even mentions that Lucifer is sitting at the Left hand of God and Jesus on the Right. So, if he is with God, how can he be in hell burning peoples' souls.
 
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I know its hot in hell, but is it humid?

I saw this study on tik tok where it's a group of scientists or something that broke down what they think the afterlife is all about and it sounded amazing. You're greeted by loved ones and are able to view your life either from above or actually re-enter your body and experience it all over again. You're able to relive everything. You can then decide if you would like to be reborn. At the time I saw it I was busy and forgot the name of the group to look it up later but it was fascinating.
 
Sharky1203 said:
This why I was debating even putting a post. Roman Catholics invented the heaven and hell thing. It was the way they gained control and started wars. It struck fear into common peasants in order to collect tax on the people. There has been a lot of blood shed over the very notion of heaven and hell.

In many points of the Bible there are references to death as going to sleep. Jesus makes many cases in reference to the Kingdom of God. When you go to sleep tonight for (let's say 8 hr as an example) you will wake up in a new day. 8 hrs of sleeping doesn't feel like anything (in relation to time). Kingdom of God is all around you. God created all and his Kingdom is all around you.

To think that one of his beloved creations was so bad that they would be sent to someplace to be tortured forever doesn't even make sense with a God of love. In Revelations John even mentions that Lucifer is sitting at the Left hand of God and Jesus on the Right. So, if he is with God, how can he be in hell burning peoples' souls.
Click to expand...
It’s actually simple. There’s no place of fiery torment . As you said it goes contrary to a God of love .
God stated to Adam his punishment for disobedience was death. Not suffering in a hell fire .
Sending Adam to suffer in hell would make God a liar, and we know that’s not possible.
The Hell is the Bible is the common grave of mankind and the” Dead do not know anything at all”
(Ecclesiastes 9:5)
 
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the24fan said:
It’s actually simple. There’s no place of fiery torment . As you said it goes contrary to a God of love .
God stated to Adam his punishment for disobedience was death. Not suffering in a hell fire .
Sending Adam to suffer in hell would make God a liar, and we know that’s not possible.
The Hell is the Bible is the common grave of mankind and the” Dead do not know anything at all”
(Ecclesiastes 9:5)
Click to expand...
But God lied to Adam in this very story. God tells him he will die that very day. It is the serpent that is telling the truth. He says that they won't die and that they will become like one of the gods. And God confirms this saying they have become like one of us meaning the gods.

I would agree with you that the way Christians think about hell didn't come until much later.
 
bdcolt45er said:
But God lied to Adam in this very story. God tells him he will die that very day. It is the serpent that is telling the truth. He says that they won't die and that they will become like one of the gods. And God confirms this saying they have become like one of us meaning the gods.

I would agree with you that the way Christians think about hell didn't come until much later.
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OMG, are you serious. Learn scripture before quoting something stupid. God told Adam he will die that very day. Adam and Eve were immortal, and by committing sin then God took immortality away and gave them pain and all the other wonderful things we are now. Lucifer was the liar because he tricked them into believing that God couldn't be trusted to tell the truth.

The problem with Atheist is they don't know or understand scripture and then don't live the life of love. They fear death more than anything else on earth because deep down inside they question they're very beliefs. Jesus taught us that death isn't the end but only the beginning. I don't want to die nor anyone else to, but I sure don't fear it in a way that many do.
 
bdcolt45er said:
But God lied to Adam in this very story. God tells him he will die that very day. It is the serpent that is telling the truth. He says that they won't die and that they will become like one of the gods. And God confirms this saying they have become like one of us meaning the gods.

I would agree with you that the way Christians think about hell didn't come until much late
Click to expand...
from God’s standpoint, Adam and Eve died on the day they sinned. It wasn’t a literal “day” of 24 hours. But they started to die or age that very moment they disobeyed .
Titus says it’s impossible for God to lie.
And the comment that Adam had become like one of the Gods was sarcastic . Not confirming what the devil had claimed would happen .
 
Sharky1203 said:
OMG, are you serious. Learn scripture before quoting something stupid. God told Adam he will die that very day. Adam and Eve were immortal, and by committing sin then God took immortality away and gave them pain and all the other wonderful things we are now. Lucifer was the liar because he tricked them into believing that God couldn't be trusted to tell the truth.

The problem with Atheist is they don't know or understand scripture and then don't live the life of love. They fear death more than anything else on earth because deep down inside they question they're very beliefs. Jesus taught that death isn't the end but only the beginning. I don't want to die nor anyone else to, but I sure don't fear it in a way that many do.
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It seems we agree on what the text says. God said one thing it didn't happen. The serpent said another thing and it did happen. The author chose the term for" that very day" for a specific reason. Adam and Eve live for 900 years. You want to dismiss what the author says and make it fit your concept of God. The ancient authors didn't have the same concept of God as you do. The Omni god concept was a development of Greek philosophy. Adonai seems to be a transition from polytheist to a monotheistic dirty. But the idea of all knowing, all powerful, and particularly morally good God develops in the new testament.


the24fan said:
from God’s standpoint, Adam and Eve died on the day they sinned. It wasn’t a literal “day” of 24 hours. But they started to die or age that very moment they disobeyed .
Titus says it’s impossible for God to lie.
And the comment that Adam had become like one of the Gods was sarcastic . Not confirming what the devil had claimed would happen .
Click to expand...
You are renegotiating with the text to fit your world view. The Bible isn't uni-vocal. What the author of Titus thinks about God isn't the same as what the author of Genesis thinks about God.

Also this story is clearly allegorical. I am interested in what the authors intended from a historical viewpoint. In my opinion when you try a reconcile the Bible to make it work as a whole you undermine the authors intent.

You are of course entitled to interpret it your own way.
 
ELCHawk said:
I grew up in a conservative Reformed church in NW Iowa. Growing up I was big in the church.

But one problem I always had was if God is a loving God why do good people who are not Christian burn in Hell for eternity?

Today at 48 I am an agnostic that doesn't go to church (for a few reasons including politics). I still question that.

If there is a loving God, how can good people of different religions or no religion not make it to Heaven?
Click to expand...
Maybe they aren’t actually good people if they don’t believe in him and are worshiping false gods??
 
Sharky1203 said:
This why I was debating even putting a post. Roman Catholics invented the heaven and hell thing. It was the way they gained control and started wars. It struck fear into common peasants in order to collect tax on the people. There has been a lot of blood shed over the very notion of heaven and hell.

In many points of the Bible there are references to death as going to sleep. Jesus makes many cases in reference to the Kingdom of God. When you go to sleep tonight for (let's say 8 hr as an example) you will wake up in a new day. 8 hrs of sleeping doesn't feel like anything (in relation to time). Kingdom of God is all around you. God created all and his Kingdom is all around you.

To think that one of his beloved creations was so bad that they would be sent to someplace to be tortured forever doesn't even make sense with a God of love. In Revelations John even mentions that Lucifer is sitting at the Left hand of God and Jesus on the Right. So, if he is with God, how can he be in hell burning peoples' souls.
Click to expand...


Jesus said Hell was a burning furnace among other things.


Jesus also refers to hell as a “fiery furnace” where law-breakers will be thrown at the end of the age when he returns. “The Son of Man will send his angels, and they will gather out of his kingdom all causes of sin and all law-breakers, and throw them into the fiery furnace. In that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth” (Matt. 13:41–42). He calls it “the hell of fire” (Matt. 5:22), “eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels” (Matt. 25:41), “unquenchable fire” (Mark 9:43), “eternal punishment” (Matt. 25:46).

@the24fan


www.crossway.org

Jesus Said More about Hell Than Anyone in the Bible

The word wrath is important for understanding what Jesus meant by hell. Hell is not simply the natural consequence of rejecting God.
www.crossway.org www.crossway.org
 
bdcolt45er said:
It seems we agree on what the text says. God said one thing it didn't happen. The serpent said another thing and it did happen. The author chose the term for" that very day" for a specific reason. Adam and Eve live for 900 years. You want to dismiss what the author says and make it fit your concept of God. The ancient authors didn't have the same concept of God as you do. The Omni god concept was a development of Greek philosophy. Adonai seems to be a transition from polytheist to a monotheistic dirty. But the idea of all knowing, all powerful, and particularly morally good God develops in the new testament.



You are renegotiating with the text to fit your world view. The Bible isn't uni-vocal. What the author of Titus thinks about God isn't the same as what the author of Genesis thinks about God.

Also this story is clearly allegorical. I am interested in what the authors intended from a historical viewpoint. In my opinion when you try a reconcile the Bible to make it work as a whole you undermine the authors intent.

You are of course entitled to interpret it your own way.
Click to expand...
The author was Moses BTW.
 
SF HAWKEYE said:
I know its hot in hell, but is it humid?

I saw this study on tik tok where it's a group of scientists or something that broke down what they think the afterlife is all about and it sounded amazing. You're greeted by loved ones and are able to view your life either from above or actually re-enter your body and experience it all over again. You're able to relive everything. You can then decide if you would like to be reborn. At the time I saw it I was busy and forgot the name of the group to look it up later but it was fascinating.
Click to expand...
Similar stories and narratives time and again from people who were clinically dead for a period of time and later revived after their near death experience. A lot of consistencies in their stories from people from all over the world, different religions and backgrounds, ages and ethnicities. There may be something to it.
 
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