Michigan faces a fourth and three on the Michigan State 47 yard line with 10 seconds on the clock. Michigan State has no timeouts. This one is not on the punter. A deep snap to the punter is a risky play, and I say the odds of Michigan gaining a first down on a run play, or more likely, the odds of Michigan State getting into field goal range and executing in the five seconds that would have been left on the clock, trumps the decision to punt. A stupid decision by the coaching staff.
Michigan coaches screwed up.
- Thread starter Aethelstan
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Punter needed to just sit on the ball after he picked it back up. Panic set in I'm sure, but it definitely wasn't the right move.
I've seen NFL teams run plays where the back just works behind the line and runs east-west while holding onto the football to eat a few extra seconds. With the 40 second play clock now, there's no reason not to execute this. Jim should have been able to do the math on first down and run some plays that keep the ball live longer. At the very least, it would have drained an extra 5-6 seconds where the 4th down play could have been Rudock heaving it in the air was far as he could or running around in the backfield to eat the rest of the clock. With 10 seconds there was too much time for that
Should have gone with this professional play.
Funny. But in reality, it would have probably worked out better for Michigan than the actual play they ran.
Nothing wrong with punting there.
At what point would a coach need to tell a player not to latterall the ball into space?
It's just like Parkers throw back in bounds move in the whatever bowl we played in last year.
It's a complete panick move by the player.
At what point would a coach need to tell a player not to latterall the ball into space?
It's just like Parkers throw back in bounds move in the whatever bowl we played in last year.
It's a complete panick move by the player.
So true, but these are professionals. College players may have made a direct snap to the defense by mistake.
This. Tell the kid to fall on it if there's a bad snap, worst case MSU is stuck with a Hail Mary.
That sounds against the rules (snapping the ball forward). I expect it would be a dead-ball penalty, but if allowed, that probably also would have ended up with a result better than the actual play.
I have wondered if we will see other teams handling the last minute and a half of games differently. JH was calling runs right up the gut that didn't take long, thus starting the play clock right back up. If they would have run east/west more in 3 plays they may have eaten the whole clock up or at least only had a few seconds left for a 4th down play of the same would have drained it completely. Hindsight is always 20/20, but they could have drained that clock without ever being in a position to punt.
Had the punter caught it cleanly, it would have been blocked by 4 different guys. Equally as bad as the punter was the protection.
Sure there is - bad snap, blocked punt, shanked punt, punt return. Running the ball would have given them one play outside FG range
Harbaugh is to blame on this. When you see no return man and all defenders on the line overloading your blockers, call a time out and re-align. Michigan had two wide outs for gunners against no return guy. You basically have 4 unblocked rushers on the punter.
http://btn.com/2015/10/17/video-michigan-state-returns-fumbled-punt-for-game-winning-td/
http://btn.com/2015/10/17/video-michigan-state-returns-fumbled-punt-for-game-winning-td/
MSU had 11 guys rushing to block, and UM had 8 guys blocking. As redghost linked above, why does the UM punt team not even bring the gunners in when the opponent is in "all block" mode?
Before the play even started, my wife and I were both saying "don't punt". Go for it, throw a hail mary (to burn clock), etc.
Oh well.
Before the play even started, my wife and I were both saying "don't punt". Go for it, throw a hail mary (to burn clock), etc.
Oh well.
I was barely in front of a TV at all Saturday. All I saw was the replay. Immediately couldn't figure out why they didn't bring in the gunners to block. If you just get away any kick at all, 10 seconds runs off the clock before the ball rolls dead. Also, this is TOTALLY on the coaching. That kid HAS to be told multiple times right before he goes onto the field to just fall on the ball if there is any doubt at all about getting the kick away. The TV I did see was highlights and recaps in the evening, and I was greatly disappointed that no one seemed to go after this "genius" coach everyone loves for allowing the gunners to stay wide (not at least calling a timeout) and for not making sure the punter knew what to do on the bad snap.
Harbuagh was supposed to be a God at coaching and he made a massive, massive blunder...
First of all, I counted like 4-5 UM players running down to field a punt we had NOBODY back returning...lol...on top of having both gunners not brought in for max protect..lol.
In typical Michigan Man fashion, post game, Harbaugh blames the punter and refs.
First of all, I counted like 4-5 UM players running down to field a punt we had NOBODY back returning...lol...on top of having both gunners not brought in for max protect..lol.
In typical Michigan Man fashion, post game, Harbaugh blames the punter and refs.
UM was out of TOs, but the gunner at the top of the screen without absolutely no one to block is equally to blame as the punter. Which of course, in turn, puts the blame 100% on the coaches.
I don't really understand why they used the roll out punt on that play. All you are looking to do is get it off.
No doubt that the punter could have been coached up better, and Michigan staff could brainstormed some ways to have ran a few more seconds off the clock. However, if the punter can't catch a snap then he is certainly as much to blame as any one in the situation. CATCH THE BALL!
The media has been awful quick to jump on the Michigan bandwagon, much like they were initially with Rodriguez and Hoke. Anyone read more about this story?
http://www.detroitnews.com/story/sp...ulls-offer-from-recruit-matt-falcon/74221774/
http://www.detroitnews.com/story/sp...ulls-offer-from-recruit-matt-falcon/74221774/
BirdistheWord
HB Legend
1. Even if the punter downed after fumbling snap, still could have had a FG (though very long, similar to ours vs Pitt)
2. If UM could have managed to tackle the returner inside the 5, the clock may have expired (there also could have been :01 left as well, massive difference for the latter)
3. I assume the thinking is that if you can get a punt off, there is almost no way to even execute a hail mary that long VS execute a running play on 4th down, if short of first down, then hail mary with a few seconds left from mid field is very executable.
4. Would be interesting to evaluate UM's clock management prior to punt. If they would have been able to get to about :05 or less, then you could run out the clock.
2. If UM could have managed to tackle the returner inside the 5, the clock may have expired (there also could have been :01 left as well, massive difference for the latter)
3. I assume the thinking is that if you can get a punt off, there is almost no way to even execute a hail mary that long VS execute a running play on 4th down, if short of first down, then hail mary with a few seconds left from mid field is very executable.
4. Would be interesting to evaluate UM's clock management prior to punt. If they would have been able to get to about :05 or less, then you could run out the clock.
The punter fluffed and then panicked...yes...but I agree with the sentiment that the coaches were the real culprits here. They didn't maximize the clock run off in the preceding plays, and had they, they may not have had to do anything on 4th down with 10 seconds left. Another safer last play would have been to have taken a shotgun snap and then just launch a pass as far down the field as possible...that may have burned all 10 seconds, or if it didn't then MSU has one hail mary chance.
I would rather defend one hail mary than not get a punt blocked when the other team is rushing 11 and I am blocking with 8!
I would rather defend one hail mary than not get a punt blocked when the other team is rushing 11 and I am blocking with 8!
I honestly also questioned if perhaps an American born kid who's played football all his life has some better instincts to just eat the ball once the fumble occurred. Not that a bad play like that has never happened to an American kid, but in THAT situation, if he just falls on it, it's still a MONSTER Field Goal, and more likely a Hail Mary situation. I think this kid being from Australia was definitely a factor. How much? No idea.
What Michigan should've done was run their OWN Hail Mary, with Rudock in shogtun. He drops back quite a few steps, wasting time, then heaves the ball way up in the air. Would've taken up the whole ten seconds, and there's still a chance your guy comes down with the ball anyway. Or just heave it way up in the air out of bounds. I think this play will change how teams approach this situation the same way the Giants-Eagles debacle in the late 70's changed it.
Iowa had this issue a few years back - when your gunner is not covered, why not audible to a pass play? Especially when you only need 3 yards. Pitch and catch, go 3 yards, 1st down, game over.
I doubt anyone's punter is the next Aaron Rodgers, but you could practice that play for this very scenario. Simple pitch and catch to win the game.
I doubt anyone's punter is the next Aaron Rodgers, but you could practice that play for this very scenario. Simple pitch and catch to win the game.
The gunner was eligible to motion back to the TE position, right? Or was he "set" and thus stuck out there?
Someone please help me out. I remember wondering why Harbuagh called the timeout with a plenty of time left on the play clock. If you are calling timeout at that point of the game, why not let the play clock run down to :01?
Did he call that timeout after third down? If you watch the clip of the last play, I believe there is a stopped play clock at :17.
Did he call that timeout after third down? If you watch the clip of the last play, I believe there is a stopped play clock at :17.
The BTN people have breaking this play down a LOT.....and placing most of the blame on Harbaugh. The formation is just poor, and at least 2 MSU were literally unblocked. Even if the punter hadn't have muffed the snap, it would have likely been blocked. DiNardo showed replays of 3 previous punts that had been problematic, including 2 bad snaps. I got the distinct impression that against the backdrop of the social media firestorm against the punter that BTN wants to change the narrative. They didn't pull any punches IMO.Harbuagh was supposed to be a God at coaching and he made a massive, massive blunder...
First of all, I counted like 4-5 UM players running down to field a punt we had NOBODY back returning...lol...on top of having both gunners not brought in for max protect..lol.
In typical Michigan Man fashion, post game, Harbaugh blames the punter and refs.
I don't know why more coaches don't 'take' motion penalties in this situation. MSU was out of timeouts, line up to run a play on third down with the clock rolling and oops, the left guard jumped. Clock starts on the ready for play for motion penalties (See Tate to Holloway). Burn another 25 seconds off the clock. I think Bert did that for Arkansas, or had it done to him a couple of years ago.
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