Mid term grades

[rorya]

...............1. PSU ........... 2.Okie St. .........3. OSU ............4. Iowa

125 .............. 3 .................12 .................. 9 ....................... 1

133 .............. 13...................5..................... 2 ...................... 1

141 ................12 ..................1......................xxx..................xxx

149..................1.....................3....................5......................... 2

157 .................1......................6...................xxxx.......................2

165 .................5 ......................7...................xxx...................xxxx

174 ................14......................5 ....................1.......................13
84................... 2 ......................5...................10....................... 6

197................11......................4......................5......................xxxx

HWT.................5......................9......................1..........................6

According to Intermat, as of last week...

Here is how the Hawks generally stand, with the mid point of the season upon us....

What jumps out ?

We are clearly the top team, for weights 1-5, which gives us a huge momentum lift in duals, but does nothing for us in tourney's.

We have a wrestler or two that may be ranked high at present Kemerer #4 ? Clark #2? Stoll #8? , but so do all the rest.

We have the greatest upward momentum of any team- with Clark's return ( and Gross can't say 'how do you like me now') , Stoll's return, the tremendous showing of Kemerer thus far and the great progress of Carton.

If , for argument's (and simplicity's) sake, you gave inverse points for ranking, ie a number 1 wrestler = 20 pts, a #2 = 19, etc...... that does nothing to convert to team score at nationals (disclaimer) but does reflect strength of team to relative to the other 3 teams who have a fighting chance to win Nationals.

those numbers (as of a couple of weeks ago) were:
PSU= 143
OKST= 152
OSU= 114
Iowa= 79 (MINUS Clark, Stoll, Kemerer lower,Carton?)

None of the other 3 have gains, but with Clark and Stoll back healthy, Kemerer up to 2nd and Carton likely to come in about 18th on Tuesday... we are an adjusted score of 119.

If Carton can move up from 18th to tenth, pull Marinelli's shirt and he can develop up to tenth, Meyer can focus on a fast start and moves up 6 slots and Stoll can move up 2... all reasonably possible... the number would be a score of 144 , or in the thick of the race for the national title... one upset of other teams star and we are in....a lot can happen...

I know someone is going to say that tenth doesn't even AA, but this is not meant to predict results at Nationals, only the comparative strength of talent.... RELATIVE to the other three teams with a serious chance to win nationals, going into the tournament.


I say pull Marinelli's shirt.. we have little chance next year in placing high with 4 AA's leaving... and he could redshirt then.....I also think Gunther may be injured after today's shoulder torqueing.....

Any thoughts, comments welcome...

 

[diggerpup]

Nice post. Verify your 197 ranking entry for Iowa.

 

[LaxHawk174]

At the midway point I feel a lot better than I did at the beginning of the season. Mainly, with 141. He has made great strides from last season. Carton looks like he could be a legitimate R12 / Low AA wrestler. With the emergence of Carton, the return of Clark, and the potential shoulder injury of Gunther, I think it's time to go all in and let the bull out of the pen.

I very well could be jumping the gun on Gunthers 'injury' but the fact he wouldn't even let the ref raise his bad arm that Hughes mercilessly cranked on, is very telling IMO.

 

[Stanley75]

Kemerer is a great example of why Marinelli needs to shirt.

 

[24 so far]

At the midway point I feel a lot better than I did at the beginning of the season. Mainly, with 141. He has made great strides from last season. Carton looks like he could be a legitimate R12 / Low AA wrestler. With the emergence of Carton, the return of Clark, and the potential shoulder injury of Gunther, I think it's time to go all in and let the bull out of the pen.

I very well could be jumping the gun on Gunthers 'injury' but the fact he wouldn't even let the ref raise his bad arm that Hughes mercilessly cranked on, is very telling IMO.

I'm skeptical Gunther is "injured". He wouldn't be the 1st to get a limb continually worked on during a match that he's fighting hard not to get turned, and end up with temporary soreness because of it. Until further notice I consider it "that's wrestling" (see our guy Kirk's - "that's Football").

 

[rorya]

Nice post. Verify your 197 ranking entry for Iowa.

Oops, that would fall under error or no excel, thanks for for catching it , we are a blank there...

 

[rorya]

Kemerer is a great example of why Marinelli needs to shirt.

If you say that Sorensen, for example, was red shirted and ranked 19th-ish, but had a meteoric rise to number two (great job) in his first year after , did that time to develop make him number two? no, but it likely helped him, sure. But his nemesis, Retherford, didn't shirt his first year and finished as national champion (corrected to fifth, my mistake, but 1st would have been more impressive) so does that mean Marinelli should not shirt? Of course not.... Intuitively, it makes sense that a year to develop helps a wrestler, but alternatively, many fifth year seniors seem to be going through the motions ... sleep walking the cycle of making weight, fighting injuries and missing their girl friend who went away to grad school, etc....I am not saying it is good or bad for Marinelli (he can still shirt next year of course) I actually think it is a wash.....make an impact to finish one ( or two) or take the weight of the world on his shoulders next year as the Hawks fall back in the pack.... I do think it makes less difference than many assume.... but I do know, it would be much better for the teams chances to do well this year... maybe land another star recruit or two, build some momentum in recruiting and break out of that State Penn funk....

 

[AFHawk86]

If you say that Sorensen, for example, was red shirted and ranked 19th-ish, but had a meteoric rise to number two (great job) in his first year after , did that time to develop make him number two? no, but it likely helped him, sure. But his nemesis, Retherford, didn't shirt his first year and finished as national champion, so does that mean Marinelli should not shirt? Of course not.... Intuitively, it makes sense that a year to develop helps a wrestler, but alternatively, many fifth year seniors seem to be going through the motions ... sleep walking the cycle of making weight, fighting injuries and missing their girl friend who went away to grad school, etc....I am not saying it is good or bad for Marinelli (he can still shirt next year of course) I actually think it is a wash.....make an impact to finish one ( or two) or take the weight of the world on his shoulders next year as the Hawks fall back in the pack.... I do think it makes less difference than many assume.... but I do know, it would be much better for the teams chances to do well this year... maybe land another star recruit or two, build some momentum in recruiting and break out of that State Penn funk....

Retherford was 5th as a true freshman at 141, then he redshirted, then he won 149 as a RS sophomore.

 

[rorya]

Retherford was 5th as a true freshman at 141, then he redshirted, then he won 149 as a RS sophomore.

 

[rorya]

I was referring to his Canadian ranking.....

Corrected, thanks.

Point is the same though, any wrestler's success or failure can not be generalized to another's...Retherford did so well , because he arrived as a stud.....

Guys make sacrifices for their team all the time.... see Holloway or Wilke....

 

[Stanley75]

Retherford was 5th as a true freshman at 141, then he redshirted, then he won 149 as a RS sophomore.

He was robbed out of being a 4 time NC. I think he is better than Logan Stieber just not as a true freshman.

 

[Stanley75]

If you say that Sorensen, for example, was red shirted and ranked 19th-ish, but had a meteoric rise to number two (great job) in his first year after , did that time to develop make him number two? no, but it likely helped him, sure. But his nemesis, Retherford, didn't shirt his first year and finished as national champion (corrected to fifth, my mistake, but 1st would have been more impressive) so does that mean Marinelli should not shirt? Of course not.... Intuitively, it makes sense that a year to develop helps a wrestler, but alternatively, many fifth year seniors seem to be going through the motions ... sleep walking the cycle of making weight, fighting injuries and missing their girl friend who went away to grad school, etc....I am not saying it is good or bad for Marinelli (he can still shirt next year of course) I actually think it is a wash.....make an impact to finish one ( or two) or take the weight of the world on his shoulders next year as the Hawks fall back in the pack.... I do think it makes less difference than many assume.... but I do know, it would be much better for the teams chances to do well this year... maybe land another star recruit or two, build some momentum in recruiting and break out of that State Penn funk....

If we pull the shirt and he fails to AA how does that help recruiting? We already know he can't win it all. How far can he go? That is what we don't know. I think TnT understand managing the studs we have. That is why he will more than likely shirt this year. For example; Kemerer last year is no way undefeated like he is this year. We are not in the position to waste a year of one of our top recruits. 5 years from now we may be though.

 

[andegre]

I'm still confused as to why it's perceived as "wasting his shirt" if he wrestles this year. Odds are, IMO, that if he wrestles this year, then he would redshirt next season. Or is everyone assuming that if he wrestles this year, then he'll never redshirt.

 

[Czech Hawk]

He was robbed out of being a 4 time NC. I think he is better than Logan Stieber just not as a true freshman.

Really? Didnt Sibbler just win a World Championship? I think Sibbler would have taken care of business on his redshirt year too. And that takes nothing away from the guy I would be most shocked to see lose this year.... well other than PD3 the eventual Hodge Winner.

 

[Lsanders20]

By March Marinelli would be college ready. Maybe enough to make a difference. If Hall pulls the shirt don't bother though.

 

[UndercoverHawk]

By March Marinelli would be college ready. Maybe enough to make a difference. If Hall pulls the shirt don't bother though.

When do you have to decide on the guy for big tens? Is there any way we could juke Cael into pulling halls shirt without pulling the bulls?

 

[Tcalumet]

...............1. PSU ........... 2.Okie St. .........3. OSU ............4. Iowa

125 .............. 3 .................12 .................. 9 ....................... 1

133 .............. 13...................5..................... 2 ...................... 1

141 ................12 ..................1......................xxx..................xxx

149..................1.....................3....................5......................... 2

157 .................1......................6...................xxxx.......................2

165 .................5 ......................7...................xxx...................xxxx

174 ................14......................5 ....................1.......................13
84................... 2 ......................5...................10....................... 6

197................11......................4......................5......................xxxx

HWT.................5......................9......................1..........................6

According to Intermat, as of last week...

Here is how the Hawks generally stand, with the mid point of the season upon us....

What jumps out ?

We are clearly the top team, for weights 1-5, which gives us a huge momentum lift in duals, but does nothing for us in tourney's.

We have a wrestler or two that may be ranked high at present Kemerer #4 ? Clark #2? Stoll #8? , but so do all the rest.

We have the greatest upward momentum of any team- with Clark's return ( and Gross can't say 'how do you like me now') , Stoll's return, the tremendous showing of Kemerer thus far and the great progress of Carton.

If , for argument's (and simplicity's) sake, you gave inverse points for ranking, ie a number 1 wrestler = 20 pts, a #2 = 19, etc...... that does nothing to convert to team score at nationals (disclaimer) but does reflect strength of team to relative to the other 3 teams who have a fighting chance to win Nationals.

those numbers (as of a couple of weeks ago) were:
PSU= 143
OKST= 152
OSU= 114
Iowa= 79 (MINUS Clark, Stoll, Kemerer lower,Carton?)

None of the other 3 have gains, but with Clark and Stoll back healthy, Kemerer up to 2nd and Carton likely to come in about 18th on Tuesday... we are an adjusted score of 119.

If Carton can move up from 18th to tenth, pull Marinelli's shirt and he can develop up to tenth, Meyer can focus on a fast start and moves up 6 slots and Stoll can move up 2... all reasonably possible... the number would be a score of 144 , or in the thick of the race for the national title... one upset of other teams star and we are in....a lot can happen...

I know someone is going to say that tenth doesn't even AA, but this is not meant to predict results at Nationals, only the comparative strength of talent.... RELATIVE to the other three teams with a serious chance to win nationals, going into the tournament.


I say pull Marinelli's shirt.. we have little chance next year in placing high with 4 AA's leaving... and he could redshirt then.....I also think Gunther may be injured after today's shoulder torqueing.....

Any thoughts, comments welcome...

I think Iowa is definitely putting something together from a development standpoint carton is doing great. Wrestling to his full potential and has shown up in great shape!!

 

[rossel 33]

I'm still confused as to why it's perceived as "wasting his shirt" if he wrestles this year. Odds are, IMO, that if he wrestles this year, then he would redshirt next season. Or is everyone assuming that if he wrestles this year, then he'll never redshirt.

Agree.

I can see the logic of RS this year, in terms of trying to make maximize Marinelli's ncaa placements and help his confidence.

But ultimately, the goal is to win a NC. Most would agree, Iowa has a better shot this year with #1 ranked guys at 125 and 133, and both are gone next year. If Clark is healthy, and coaches think Marinelli would give us points in March, it would seem to make more sense to go with Marinelli this year, and RS him next.

 

[rorya]

If we pull the shirt and he fails to AA how does that help recruiting? We already know he can't win it all. How far can he go? That is what we don't know. I think TnT understand managing the studs we have. That is why he will more than likely shirt this year. For example; Kemerer last year is no way undefeated like he is this year. We are not in the position to waste a year of one of our top recruits. 5 years from now we may be though.

 

[rorya]

No offense, but I doubt you know their coaching decisions or reasoning any more than I do...You are welcome to your opinion, but I would say their propensity to shirt most every player, in their freshman year , is not necessarily gospel with other teams... We can agree to disagree on the 'wasting a year' view... he could just as easily redshirt next year when the team will be rebuilding...

 

[24 so far]

No offense, but I doubt you know their coaching decisions or reasoning any more than I do...You are welcome to your opinion, but I would say their propensity to shirt most every player, in their freshman year , is not necessarily gospel with other teams... We can agree to disagree on the 'wasting a year' view... he could just as easily redshirt next year when the team will be rebuilding...

No offense, but we don't say "player", ever.

 

[rorya]

No offense, but we don't say "player", ever.

oops, etiquette or slip..... yeah, but do you put your elbows on the table without permission, is the real question?

 

[bphawkeye_Rivals]

No offense, but we don't say "player", ever.

that is correct. Also no pregame warm ups, or post game interviews.

 

[championhawk]

No offense, but I doubt you know their coaching decisions or reasoning any more than I do...You are welcome to your opinion, but I would say their propensity to shirt most every player, in their freshman year , is not necessarily gospel with other teams... We can agree to disagree on the 'wasting a year' view... he could just as easily redshirt next year when the team will be rebuilding...

The wasting a year is due to 165 not being his ideal weight . Redshirting and getting stronger is better for Alex. I don't think anyone has ever argued that it isn't better for the team to have him go this year.

 

[Czech Hawk]

that is correct. Also no pregame warm ups, or post game interviews.

Only exception is a broadcasting major on Big 10 Plus, then those are must phrases!

 

[rorya]

No offense, but we don't say "player", ever.

#7 IOWA 35, #22 Rider 6
125 -- Justin Stickley (I) pinned Jonathan Tropea (R), 4:36; 6-0
133 -- Phillip Laux (I) dec. Anthony Cefolo (R), 5-1; 9-0
141 -- #17 Tyson Dippery (R) dec. Vince Turk (I), 8-4; 9-3
149 -- #2 Brandon Sorensen (I) major dec. Gary Dinmore (R), 14-4; 13-3
157 -- #3 Michael Kemerer (I) major dec. #7 B.J. Clagon (R), 18-5; 17-3
165 -- #4 Chad Walsh (R) dec. #16 Kaleb Young (I), 5-4; 17-6
174 -- Joey Gunther (I) major dec. Wayne Stinson (R), 12-3; 21-6
184 -- Mitch Bowman (I) major dec. #20 Michael Fagg-Daves (R), 15-3; 25-6
197 -- #10 Cash Wilcke (I) major dec. Ethan Laird (R), 16-3; 29-6
285 -- #7 Sam Stoll (I) pinned Mauro Correnti (R), 1:27; 35-6




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Players Mentioned

You should tell that to the U of Iowa site, they didn't get your permission to write 'player'....

 

[CP84]

WTF, you bumped a year old post for this?

 

[IAChief32]

WTF, you bumped a year old post for this?

He has been biding his time waiting to strike back with a witty retort.

 

[CumberlandHawk]

When I read the first post I thought I was getting dementia.

 

[24 so far]

#7 IOWA 35, #22 Rider 6
125 -- Justin Stickley (I) pinned Jonathan Tropea (R), 4:36; 6-0
133 -- Phillip Laux (I) dec. Anthony Cefolo (R), 5-1; 9-0
141 -- #17 Tyson Dippery (R) dec. Vince Turk (I), 8-4; 9-3
149 -- #2 Brandon Sorensen (I) major dec. Gary Dinmore (R), 14-4; 13-3
157 -- #3 Michael Kemerer (I) major dec. #7 B.J. Clagon (R), 18-5; 17-3
165 -- #4 Chad Walsh (R) dec. #16 Kaleb Young (I), 5-4; 17-6
174 -- Joey Gunther (I) major dec. Wayne Stinson (R), 12-3; 21-6
184 -- Mitch Bowman (I) major dec. #20 Michael Fagg-Daves (R), 15-3; 25-6
197 -- #10 Cash Wilcke (I) major dec. Ethan Laird (R), 16-3; 29-6
285 -- #7 Sam Stoll (I) pinned Mauro Correnti (R), 1:27; 35-6




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Players Mentioned

You should tell that to the U of Iowa site, they didn't get your permission to write 'player'....

They aren't "players" I don't give a shit what "they" wrote on a website. They're wrong just like you were. Deal with it.

 

[Kwoodhawk]

When I read the first post I thought I was getting dementia.

No one said you aren't.........

 

[artradley]

#7 IOWA 35, #22 Rider 6
125 -- Justin Stickley (I) pinned Jonathan Tropea (R), 4:36; 6-0
133 -- Phillip Laux (I) dec. Anthony Cefolo (R), 5-1; 9-0
141 -- #17 Tyson Dippery (R) dec. Vince Turk (I), 8-4; 9-3
149 -- #2 Brandon Sorensen (I) major dec. Gary Dinmore (R), 14-4; 13-3
157 -- #3 Michael Kemerer (I) major dec. #7 B.J. Clagon (R), 18-5; 17-3
165 -- #4 Chad Walsh (R) dec. #16 Kaleb Young (I), 5-4; 17-6
174 -- Joey Gunther (I) major dec. Wayne Stinson (R), 12-3; 21-6
184 -- Mitch Bowman (I) major dec. #20 Michael Fagg-Daves (R), 15-3; 25-6
197 -- #10 Cash Wilcke (I) major dec. Ethan Laird (R), 16-3; 29-6
285 -- #7 Sam Stoll (I) pinned Mauro Correnti (R), 1:27; 35-6




Print Friendly Version
Players Mentioned

You should tell that to the U of Iowa site, they didn't get your permission to write 'player'....

They aren't "players" I don't give a shit what "they" wrote on a website. They're wrong just like you were. Deal with it.

State or states?

 

[butchinmi]

When I read the first post I thought I was getting dementia.

When I read the thread title I thought is was a PD3 update