Midlands will be a good test
- Thread starter LaxHawk174
- Start date
Depends on the rankers' definitions of their rankings. In the case of Flo, CP has stated that his "rankings are not predictions".
Agreed. But that doesn't change the fact there are definitely rankings out their that are indeed predictions. Any ranking out their with Jimmy from Penn State (think Jake from State Farm) ranked #1 is definitely a "prediction".
lol quoting cp in rankings talk is the equivalent of going to Donald Trump for race relations advice.. does he still have Jesse Delgado ranked first?
Hard to figure out what this even means. Not the high-larious Jake from State Farm reference. That I get. "Jimmy from Penn State" starts with "J." "Jake from State Farm" starts with "J." Comedy gold!
But your rankings comment is gibberish. Gulibon was ranked high because he's a returning All American who had wins last year over six of the nine top ranked guys at 133, including the guy they have ranked second (Cory from Iowa), and because there was not a lot of top-end talent returning at 141 (Dean from Okie State and Kevin from NC State had great NCAA tournaments but still have a lot to prove.) Gulibon's high pre-season ranking proves exactly the opposite of what you're suggesting. It was based on past results and was not a prediction of future success.
Not getting your point.
The rankings in question/commented on/that started this little side bar in this thread are Flo's rankings which had JG #1 and has Sammy outside the top 10. The guy that does Flo's rankings said his rankings aren't predictions.
What does it matter (in this discussion anyway) that some rankings are predictions?
Since ASU will be there this year, will we see the Valencia brothers? If so, what weight? 74 and 97? Those two should make the Midlands very competitive for years to come
I like it better when you quote CP.
FWIW, quoting person A to give an explanation of person A's work is not the equivalent of going to person B for advice on anything. Feel free to play around and insert whoever you like as persons A/B and you will find it works the same each time.
Rankings are basically designed to credit those ranked for what they have recently done. Obviously preseason ranking are mostly based on how you did at the most important tournament at the end of the prior season. I don't think anyone here believes that Brooks is incapable of finishing top 4. However, how can you take the small sample size of this season, ignore last season's NCAA Tournament, as well as prior NCAA Tournament finishes and put Brooks ahead of guys that finished ahead of him last season? Especially when he hasn't beaten any of them this season or they haven't taken any "bad" losses to put him ahead of them?
The above will sort itself out considerably after Midlands. Brooks has the chance to put all the speculation to rest and get it done ON THE MAT. If all his opponents wrestle to seed until they hit him on the bracket, he has a chance to beat 3 guys ranked ahead of him. If he beats all 3 and wins the tournament, he will most likely move up to the Top 4 at his weight in ALL ranking systems. Hopefully he does so and puts this to rest. Go get 'em Sammy!
The above will sort itself out considerably after Midlands. Brooks has the chance to put all the speculation to rest and get it done ON THE MAT. If all his opponents wrestle to seed until they hit him on the bracket, he has a chance to beat 3 guys ranked ahead of him. If he beats all 3 and wins the tournament, he will most likely move up to the Top 4 at his weight in ALL ranking systems. Hopefully he does so and puts this to rest. Go get 'em Sammy!
Side bar from the rankings banter; Who would everyone be more interested in seeing Zahid face- Sammy or Nathan? And why please.
Throughout hs Zahid was never very offensive against top level competition and was darn near impossible to score on. Although I would be interested in the result of a Zahid vs Burak match I would want to watch Sammy and Anthony wrestle each other.
In my opinion, Brooks' ranking is a joke. That's the opinion I expressed. Your opinion obviously differs. Of course, you're entitled to your own. Mine isn't changing.
It matters because you specifically said rankings aren't predictions, had you specifically said so and so says his rankings aren't predictions, that's a different conversation. Nothing more, nothing less.
Based on what? What is your opinion based on? Because it's certainly not results.
Man, you won't let this go, will you?
My opinion is based on the knowledge of how good Sam Brooks is, along with the fact that he was hindered by injury late last season. He's not the 11th best 184-pounder in the nation, IMO. Evidently, you're convinced he is. More power to ya, pal.
All right.. Here ya go. Sam Brooks is, without question, a talented 184 lber. Intermat and other respectful ranking entities currently believe he's ranked anywhere from 9 to 12 roughly. Who fartin cares. By years end, we'll find out. I personally think, all bias aside, Sam Brooks is a top 5 guy. Not to add fuel to the fire but I'd tend to side with "WWDMHawkeye", but then again who cares. It's simply one's opinion and this leads to good conversation via the forum.
I agree that Brooks is underrated, but not by much according to the ranking criteria. I think he is absolutely a top 4 talent. While healthy, he beat Courts, Zilmer, Avery, Dudley and lost to Dechow 7-6 and Abounader in the dual i think. He then injured himself in his first match against Dean If i'm not mistaken, and was wrestling hurt ever since National Duals. While injured he beat Courts again, Abounader, and everyone else he faced except McCutcheon upset, then Dean and Stauffer at NCAAs. Theres a pretty good case for saying Brooks is a top 4 guy, but obviously he still has to earn that ranking this season, and he very well could at midlands.
Ug Ug guys
All this will be cleaned up soon on the mat. Whatever on the rankings right now
In Vak's world injuries don't matter. I'm really surprised he is taking your opinion on this so serious. I can assure you that the majority of Hawk fans agree with you.
The funny thing is, I think Vak believes Brooks is a top 5 guy AS WELL. He is simply saying he CURRENTLY doesn't deserve the ranking. There are 10 returning AA's at the weight class. Brooks didn't AA last season. Brooks hasn't beaten any of them this season. To rank him above them you would have to use subjective data(i.e. your opinion) vs. objective data(recent results).
With the above said, I believe Brooks will bolster your opinion when he wins Midlands! Still, opinions should have very little to do with rankings as well as seeding. Rankings are a progressive extension of seeding, at least that is how I try to view them..............
With the above said, I believe Brooks will bolster your opinion when he wins Midlands! Still, opinions should have very little to do with rankings as well as seeding. Rankings are a progressive extension of seeding, at least that is how I try to view them..............
It's amazing, isn't it? If you try to use logic, you're being a d!ck. On other boards they call me the world's biggest homer! Sammy could win the title this year, but that doesn't mean he deserves a ranking any higher than he has right now.
I don't think anyone disagrees that Brooks has top-4 talent. The exception is the characterization of the current rankings as a joke. There are valid and objective reasons for the rankings.
Of course, we all have valid reasons for believing he's better than the "current" rankings, but those rankings are completely defensible.
Fortunately he has plenty of opportunity this season to change those rankings and get a nice seed at Nationals.
Who's being the dick? The guy offering his opinion or the guy being critical of his opinion? Tough for me to tell, but in general when I'm being a dick on here, at least it is intentional.
I'm the one being accused, in not so many words, of being a dick. The guy offered his opinion, which criticized someone else's opinion (their rankings), so I criticized his opinion. Why is his opinion protected from criticism?
Of couse all opinions matter but that diminishes the importance/objective of the #HRopinionsmatter movement.
My opinion is rank me wherever you want and put the next guy in front of me because I am going to kick his ass and then it is on to the next chump until I am at the top! #Herkuleez5opinionmatters
No more machine gun smileys. Feds took'em all away because of all the Terrorism stuff.
Try one of these instead.
I'm liking the way Midlands shakes out for our guys. Hopefully Brody gets a good draw and can work into the tourney. Nice and tuff for 133. Plenty of chances for 157 and 285 to prove themselves and should get a decent seed with recent victories. I like Meyer not having to go at the top 5, as this may help him get into his offense with confidence. Brooks however has alot of tough competition, so that is great for him to prove himself.
125, 149 and 197 need to do their thing.
No more machine gun smileys. Feds took'em all away because of all the Terrorism stuff.
Try one of these instead.
Makes sense. There was probably a $5 Million government funded study on it.
