Right, and I was just asking if that’s a bad thing. It was thoroughly investigated and they were found to do no wrong (criminally anyway). From a few on here that has to hurt that the police were not found to be in the wrong.
Milwaukee PDs finest
- Thread starter BlIIlken2
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And according to an investigation and review by five agencies, deadly force was justified in the Colorado case. That as opposed to your opinion following your own admission that you "didn't read all the facts about the Colorado incident".
Now you are being obtuse. The article regarding this in post 31 states clearly he had a gun in his hand to which I referred to numerous times. Now will you answer my question regarding a perp running away from a cop with a gun in his hand is or is not a threat to the cop, to the perp and to whoever they encounter? And to your answer about the perp in your back yard? Your attempt at humor there pretty much sums up your answer. And by the way, why would your security team shoot him dead instead of confronting him?
I have stated and not wavered from that statement that an armed suspect running away from the police is not posing an immediate threat. That has been asked and answered. If the officer feels the need to pursue the suspect he accepts the consequences, including up to getting shot. If he chooses not to pursue he also accepts the consequences, up to people getting shot. Additionally, the officer can just shoot the guy in the back and accept the consequences of the shooting. Those are just some of the reasons why it is a stressful shit job in many aspects.
My point is I do not believe a trained officer should take someone's life because of a "what if", you seem to be of that belief, and that is where we disagree.
As to being obtuse, perhaps our understanding of "brandish" differ. possibly because Wisconsin has no such law. Brandishing a weapon in Georgia you have to point or aim the weapon and that is not mentioned anywhere in the articles I read, so I would not consider carrying brandishing maybe that is why you feel I am being obtuse.
I can agree to disagree. Maybe brandishing isn’t the proper term. I also feel just letting him get away isn’t an option. Chasing him is an option but there are many risks involved. Also, don’t forget the multiple warnings to drop it was giving the guy a chance and HE chose not to.
And I admitted on my original opinion that based off the video it didn't look good. I know Iowa law, not Colorado, but they made multiple tactical errors that could have avoided the outcome, not to mention the blatant failure to render aid.
I saw that video and it was inconclusive in my opinion whether the guy was grabbing for the cops gun, but yeah I was shocked they didn’t try to help the guy after the fact.
agree to disagree, always enjoy a good conversation
Good grief….if you just ran a red light and crashed into another vehicle only to get out of car and run away with a gun in your hand isn’t a threat to society I don’t know what is then. Simple as that.
We are specifically trained on tactics to retain our weapons at all cost. Does it happen where the person gets the gun away from the officer absolutely. However, just because they are grabbing at your gun doesn't mean you shoot the guy. The officer obviously had the gun in his own hand when he decided to fire 3 times into his chest. If the officer had control of the gun he could have immediately created space and held him at gun point. Totally different situation if the officer was there by himself and thought he was going to lose control of his weapon.
Does carrying a weapon factor in to what you read? Serious question as you didn’t mention it.
You should really run and go inform all those who did investigations on this about what you have read. They may not be as up to speed on those policies, procedures, and laws like you are.
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Wisconsin is open carry so I assume that merely having a gun can't justify lethal force.
But back to my post, my reading is that the officer would have had to known that the suspect had injured or killed someone prior to fleeing to justify lethal force.
Or you can sit this discussion out if you're not interested in a constructive conversation.
It does say he crashed his car into another one but doesn’t say if anyone was injured.
Huey…just pointing this out to you as maybe you didn’t start at the beginning of this thread. He ran a red light and crashed into another car proceeded to run away with a gun in his hand. Not sure about you but do you think that is a threat or no?
Exactly…then he’s a threat!!!
That is a question they will have to answer.
For me, personally, I'm willing to accept that the shooting was justified if someone was injured. But what kills me is the response after. No reasonable officer would shoot several rounds in a suspect, see them instantly go down, see them completely lifeless on the ground, and then decide to drag them around by the ankle like a ragdoll instead of attempting to administer aid.
I'm well aware of this. My understanding of the standard is that he had to have injured or killed someone prior to this to justify shooting him fleeing.
As bad as that part looks, if they are trying to separate him from his weapon before anything else, I don’t have a problem with that.
So are you saying running away with a gun in his hand isn’t a threat after running into a car? I’m just trying to figure out your thinking.
He was no longer holding his weapon. He was lifeless on the ground. Moreover, I don't believe that a reasonable officer would attempt to disarm a suspect by grabbing their ankle and dragging them through a fence like this.
That makes it sound like they should wait until after he shoots someone to take him out. Repeatedly telling him to drop the gun should also factor in.
I admit that has a bad look but it’s not like Mogadishu. They felt the need to move him for some reason none of us know for sure. Giving the officers the benefit of the doubt I would like to think the gun was by his lifeless hand and they pulled the body away instead of kicking the gun. Pure speculation.
Now look at violent crime rates by each…
Blacks, which here means non-Hispanic blacks, were 12.5% of the U.S. population, and non-Hispanic whites were 60.4%. It thus appears from this data that the black per capita violent crime rate is roughly 2.3 to 2.8 times the rate for the country as a whole, while the white per capita violent crime rate is roughly 0.7 to 0.9 times the rate for the country as a whole.
Race and Violent Crime
An article by a criminal law professor Thursday in the Columbus Dispatch included this assertion: The reality is that Black-on-Black crime is a myth, andreason.com
And what are some of the reasons behind that?
Main two are socioeconomic factors and a distance second of systemic racism within the judicial system....if you really start looking for crimes you will find them, even in rich, white, affluent suburbs
Maybe I don’t watch the news much but are there many drive-bys in those rich, white affluent suburbs?
I'm not saying it accounts for everything,,,,but I'd wager a hugely significant amount.
Relevance? You can complain about those factors all you want, but black people are being shot by police at a disproportionate amount compared to other races when only looking at race and nothing else, which is completely elementary and stupid. But when looking at the rate in which they are being shot by police compared to those committing violent crimes, they are not being disproportionately singled out.
I am surprised
OH MY GOD!!!!! This is horrific!!! Those two cops need to be put away for life! Again, I know there are bad cops out there and these two are clearly the worst of the worst. I just refuse to put ALL law enforcement in the same basket. We all need to recognize that there are both BAD cops out there AND Good Cops out there.
So are you saying running away with a gun in his hand isn’t a threat after running into a car? I’m just trying to figure out your thinking.
Still waiting for an answer as I see you have replied to others but not this question.
The earlier action of the encounter described in the following article with a ridiculous headline:
www.yahoo.com
Police video:
How many actions did the eventual dead guy do wrong?
Milwaukee police release footage in the fatal shooting of Herman Lucas, but it remains unclear if he pointed his gun at officers
The edited Milwaukee Police Department video shows Herman Lucas fleeing officers with a gun and was turning to face him before the officer fired.
Police video:
How many actions did the eventual dead guy do wrong?
