No I actually work in the field and don't want to over promise people and see them get sick or die due to scientific greed or a rush.
mRNA Vaccines That Code For the Spike Protein--Both Moderna and Pfizer
- Thread starter GOHOX69
- Start date
And you should be aware that there are exactly 0 read 0 mRNA vaccines that have been used for _any_ human disease. Zero.
Doesn't bode much for efficacy does it?
Sounds plausible. I hope we get clear explanations and risk assessments (for those who want them).
Interesting timing considering he would have had to full out a filing in advance if the sale. T&P's that the science is sound and its not just a $ play.
Pfizer's CEO cashed out 60% of his stock on the same day the company unveiled the results of its COVID-19 vaccine trial | Markets Insider
markets.businessinsider.com
Pfizer's CEO cashed out 60% of his stock on the same day the company unveiled the results of its COVID-19 vaccine trial | Markets Insider
Pfizer's CEO cashed out 60% of his stock on the same day the company unveiled the results of its COVID-19 vaccine trial
The 52-week high for Pfizer stock is $41.99, which means CEO Albert Bourla sold his shares at close to their highest level this year.
markets.businessinsider.com
Got any idea if this might be the underlying cause of the...ahem...less than optimal outcomes seen in the animal models they used to test the SARs mRNA vaccine? I don't remember if there were similar difficulties with the work on MERs..
The problem with mers and other candidates for Sars cov 1 was that they are still poorly immunogenic despite being complex viruses. Both cell mediated, meaning t cell, and antibody mediated, meaning b cells immunity seems fleeting. The mrna approach is fairly new mainly because mrna can now be synthesized artificially in large amounts. It does have some benefits. No animals are involved. No complex manufacturing steps such as as inactivation etc are required and copies of each vaccine dose are faithful. Problems are multi fold. Besides the fact that the mrna might be coding for a toxic protein, no one really knows whether the mRNA stays in place in an intramuscular injection. The optimal theory is the muscle cells incorporate the mrna transiently, the s protein is made, the immune system makes t cells and antibodies to the s protein. There is no guarentee that the mrna won't get into other cells, the general vasculature, neural cells or other privileged compartments. Anyways let's see.
Its my understanding that the antigen(s-Protein) produced and attached to its host cell will cease when the cell dies. Interesting stuff BTW
This is why the 40k+ patients from the study need to be tracked for the 2-3 months or whatever for adverse events. We've seen the "headliner" that the vaccine appears to confer immunity. From what I know the full data have NOT been released, and the application to FDA will not be sent until late November. Then, we have a week or more for independent review of those results.
I'm simply appalled at the news pundits and WH claiming "we'd have a vaccine" by Election Day (or close to it) because we are still WEEKS away from that IF nothing goes wrong. And Emergency Use, in light of the concerns here, may not be a good plan, because you'll lose the ability to TRACK for adverse events and problems if you bypass the systems set up for that.
Everyone gets pissypants when they get told we are heading into cold/flu season w/o any vaccine or miracle medicines for this stuff - we MUST rely on masks and distancing to limit severity and spread.
No one wants to hear that. They want the "magic pill".
Probably related to how many $$ Americans waste on weight loss "formulas" and gadgets, and are still some of the fattest people in the world. They can burn $100-200 every 6-12 months on some kind of "magic crap", but cannot invest the time and energy into actually exercising and eating healthy.
I think we all should have hope but as @Joes Place said better than I, as a scientist, I think people need to be better educated and realize the risks and hopefully rewards. Covid-19 is not a disease to be trifled with but people everyday say there are vaccines but the released data is very very limited. Time will tell.
I fear we will learn it is a much more lethal disease when people spend more time indoors and are exposed to higher viral inoculum than what we've seen so far.
Yeah that is my concern. Obviously my knowledge of the science is trivial but from what I have read, the severity of the disease is tied to the viral load in terms of amount/intensity. The cold weather is just getting started driving 1/2 the country indoors for the next few months where we all will be breathing on each other a whole lot more.
This is what I've been trying to say. 30 kilobase viruses just don't happen willy nilly and bring a lot to the party. HIV-1 is only 9.6 kb. Admittedly different classes but we know how that vaccine effort turned out and continues to turn out.
Do you still feel the same way? If not can you give me a Cliff's Notes version of why you changed your mind?
:: bangs gavel ::
Are you now, or have you ever been, on the Joe Rogan Disinformation Experience?
Ahh those. I think that the vaccines have been quite effective but not bullet proof. Given the time horizon that these folks had, I'll just say I was pleasantly surprised by their efficacy and lack of immunological side effects. That being said, medicine has a long time horizon and I still don't believe that a monovalent vaccine will end this pandemic. The virus is too complex and mutationally aggressive and new variants will keep popping off regardless of vaccination status. The one good thing is that the mRNA vaccines have far outperformed traditional vaccines which have used adenoviruses as their vector. So yes I am surprised and happy that they have stemmed the global tide of endless death but I think more needs to be done and that is also in the hopper.
Weren't you touting the vaccines before? Also, aren't you a lawyer?
Yes and last I checked still yes. You have a patent or trademark or contract or licensing agreement for me?
I could have sworn at one point you were saying you were in the immunology field. I am old, so that could be it.
No. It's a large and immunogenic protein and it's abundantly expressed on the viral surface. It's the right thing to go after.
I have nearly 35 years experience in many labs. Some have included immunology yes.I could have sworn at one point you were saying you were in the immunology field. I am old, so that could be it.
A better question would be: why do you think it is? It would be quite revealing.
I've got the father of mRNA technology, along with countless internationally renowned immunologists and virologists, saying it's a toxin with potential long term deleterious effects.
The entire spike protein is toxic. The vaccines don't code for the full spike protein, just a tiny portion thereof. That being said spike protein toxicity is overrated since most people who get covid recover and don't have long term sequale; this includes non vaccinated individuals.
