Name to keep an eye on

[DavenportHawk8]

I think the point is a lot of us think Fran blew the season with his big minutes to his 3 non-scoring seniors. There very well was talent that could have played and ended up improved by end of season. CW, Wagner stick out as two guys that could have played more. Who knows about Moss---probably would have played at most schools. The two guys that Fran picked to be our guard backups, Ellingson and Flemming contributed zero.

This botched season is large on Fran for not recruiting/developing any guard talent. Uthoff and Jok stepped up big time and their outstanding seasons were dragged down by lack of legitimate 3rd scorer/no ability for dribble drive/3pt/FT shooting and from guard positions and fielding a defense that got torched man to man in dribble drive.

Fran has a lot of qualities. His deficiencies have shown through in 2014 and 2016 with inability to field a team that doesn't collapse when the big games of season are played. I think Fran needs to look in mirror.

While I agree with you, most coaches will play Seniors over Freshman. I realize that at some schools they don't even have seniors, they just re-load every year with new talent. Iowa isn't at the level, nor will I think we ever get there. I mean Iowa was returning 7 players off of last years team. There was a ton of experience returning. Fran probably thought that those 7 would be good enough to shoulder the load and put in a couple of the young guys for "experience" minutes. I am assuming Fran didn't think that Clemmons, Gessell, and Ellingson and Woody would struggle so much offensively. I also assume Fran didn't expect Baer to come on like he did. Those are the unknowns that coaches go into each season with.

Wagner I thought should of played more. He was getting his minutes later on in the year, but he should of been playing more early on. The kid is athletic and can run the floor. He made some "bonehead" mistakes at times, but he's a freshman. They will do that.

Flemming & Ellingson both seemed to be offensive minded players, but their defense is not good. If Fran would of put them out there more and more, the opposing teams would of taken advantage of them. I think Fran finally saw the light and started playing CW more. As a coach you hate to give-up on a player. Ellingson is Josh Olgesby 2.0 the kid must be able to stroke in practice, but can't get it to translate to game time. I feel for the kid, he looks like a shooter, but just can't get it to fall.

Moss & Hutton I think both needed time to adjust to Div 1 basketball. I think Moss more for an academic situation and Hutton more for offense. I realize they are both good athletes, but Moss was late to the party due to academics. I assume Fran probably wanted him to get his school situation figured out and concentrate on that (beings we had 7-8 guys who were returning). Get used to college life and put in a year in the weight room and studying. Hutton I think is a pure athlete like Wagner, just does not have the offensive game yet. I think he will be another clemmons. A defensive stopper, but if he gets hot could put up double digits here and there.

If you start to bench your experienced players for freshman there will be some "issues" that will arise and I am sure any coach can tell you. I mean Woody started a record 137 games at Iowa (most other schools he probably doesn't even start). So I think Fran was hamstrung by his "vaunted talented" recruiting class. I think he probably made some promises or what not to get them to Iowa City.

I look to next year, Fran will have 10 players be Freshman or Sophomores. There will no guaranteed starting roles or guaranteed playing time. I think you will see Fran have more competition for minutes and I think it will make Iowa better overall. I think you will see some young guys battle for position and I would not be all surprised to see the starting line-up change several times next year. That's fine with me, you have to be able to change it up from time to time.

 

[EpenesaEpenesa]

I think the point is a lot of us think Fran blew the season with his big minutes to his 3 non-scoring seniors.

Those 3 playing significant minutes had Iowa ranked in the top 5 in the nation a little over a month ago. Whats Fran gonna do? Bench them and play freshman significant minutes the last 3 weeks or let those seniors play it out and see if they can get back to the way they were a month ago? Its pretty tough to make wholesale lineup changes in the middle of February, especially seniors to freshman.

 

[luvmyhawks]

I think the point is a lot of us think Fran blew the season with his big minutes to his 3 non-scoring seniors. There very well was talent that could have played and ended up improved by end of season. CW, Wagner stick out as two guys that could have played more. Who knows about Moss---probably would have played at most schools. The two guys that Fran picked to be our guard backups, Ellingson and Flemming contributed zero.

This botched season is large on Fran for not recruiting/developing any guard talent. Uthoff and Jok stepped up big time and their outstanding seasons were dragged down by lack of legitimate 3rd scorer/no ability for dribble drive/3pt/FT shooting and from guard positions and fielding a defense that got torched man to man in dribble drive.

Fran has a lot of qualities. His deficiencies have shown through in 2014 and 2016 with inability to field a team that doesn't collapse when the big games of season are played. I think Fran needs to look in mirror.

This is a fair and decent post. No problem with this criticism. I will just point to epenesa and davenports post. Those 3 non scoring seniors got us to a pretty lofty ranking at one time. Yes, it went south, but you can hardly blame Fran for riding his seniors. At least I can't. And we did see more and more of Baer, Wagner and Williams as was needed.


I just think it is an extremely fickle argument to complain about lack of pt for freshman when we had 3 that contributed and had the group of starters we had.

 

[DodgerHawki]

I don't understand Fran's strategy. We sit three 2 guards or combo guards all season despite dismal play from our back court. One can only conclude Fran does not think they can play. OK for 1 or 2, but all 3 are incapable of contributing? If that is the case, then he did not evaluate these guys properly and / or grossly over-estimated what he would get from guys who haven't shown it the prior 3 years.

My point here is why basically fill up those 3 spots with non-contributing players and have 0 spots for a graduate transfer, decommit, juco, etc. Now it's back to this wait and see game with no open scholarships. If someone is thinking about leaving, they aren't going to say anything (likely) until they find another school, which could be May / June. By then, the ship will have sailed for these other guys.

What's not to understand? Fran is trying to improve the roster, as he should be constantly. My guess is he probably has a good idea of whether or not anyone is leaving. Just because we have a glut of guys on the roster next year at similar positions (Jok, Fleming, Ellingson, Hutton, Moss) it doesn't mean you don't try to get better if you can. Out of that group, we have 1 sure thing (Jok) and a whole bunch of question marks. Fleming and Ellingson look like their top end is a guy off the bench who can make 3's (that's top end). Hutton and Moss have more upside, but will need time to develop.

It would not surprise me if there was more roster turnover this year and next than previously in Fran's tenure. Part of it is that Iowa missed on getting its top choices in some cases, and ended up with guys who may/may not make it at this level. It doesn't mean the world is ending. It's what happens. If someone is leaving, they are going to announce it sooner rather than later. If departing players wait until May or June to announce they are leaving, they will be without a place to land. If you are transferring, the best time to announce it is earlier rather than later. That way you can be officially released and have contact with coaches.

My first preference for next year would be a very good graduate transfer. Really at any position. The roster could be improved by a quality player anywhere. If not, a high school player who would be able to contribute next year would be welcome too.

 

[DodgerHawki]

I think the point is a lot of us think Fran blew the season with his big minutes to his 3 non-scoring seniors. There very well was talent that could have played and ended up improved by end of season. CW, Wagner stick out as two guys that could have played more. Who knows about Moss---probably would have played at most schools. The two guys that Fran picked to be our guard backups, Ellingson and Flemming contributed zero.

This botched season is large on Fran for not recruiting/developing any guard talent. Uthoff and Jok stepped up big time and their outstanding seasons were dragged down by lack of legitimate 3rd scorer/no ability for dribble drive/3pt/FT shooting and from guard positions and fielding a defense that got torched man to man in dribble drive.

Fran has a lot of qualities. His deficiencies have shown through in 2014 and 2016 with inability to field a team that doesn't collapse when the big games of season are played. I think Fran needs to look in mirror.

You are mixing in a couple of different things here. The issue of whether Fran has issues in coaching in close games or getting teams to play hard and play defense the whole year are legitimate. As far as his roster management this year goes, I don't fault him at all for how he managed what he had on hand. Hutton and Moss redshirted because they have far more upside than Fleming or Ellingson, due to their athletic ability. And neither Moss or Hutton were going to be better than what Iowa got out of Clemmons and Jok this year. Fran made the right call in redshirting them, especially if one/both of them end up turning into a really good player. Having that guy as a 5th year senior will be valued down the road. We saw how Uthoff performed in a 5th year.

I do agree that the overall recruiting in the 3 classes following up the Gesell/Clemmons/Woodbury class was an issue. We saw some of those fruits this year with the inconsistent bench and it will be even more pronounced next year. Wagner possibly could have played more minutes, but Fran got about what I thought out of him. He's a 6-6 to 6-7 post player, which means he's likely a role player for his college career. I'm very happy Williams came on as the season went along, but where exactly did he earn more playing time before the Indiana game? Fran let him have minutes against Rutgers and Williams spent the game hunting bad shots and not playing defense. Then he didn't see much time at all until the Indiana game, when he played much, much better. One could argue that Williams should have been force-fed minutes all along, but it's easy to say in hindsight. Early part of the conference season Clemmons/Gesell were rolling at the point, and even Ellingson was doing things like scoring 8 points against Purdue.

I don't agree that the season was "botched" overall. It could have been more, but a 12-6 conference record and NCAA win is never going to be a botched season for Iowa.

 

[herkI]

I think the point is a lot of us think Fran blew the season with his big minutes to his 3 non-scoring seniors. There very well was talent that could have played and ended up improved by end of season. CW, Wagner stick out as two guys that could have played more. Who knows about Moss---probably would have played at most schools. The two guys that Fran picked to be our guard backups, Ellingson and Flemming contributed zero.

This botched season is large on Fran for not recruiting/developing any guard talent. Uthoff and Jok stepped up big time and their outstanding seasons were dragged down by lack of legitimate 3rd scorer/no ability for dribble drive/3pt/FT shooting and from guard positions and fielding a defense that got torched man to man in dribble drive.

Fran has a lot of qualities. His deficiencies have shown through in 2014 and 2016 with inability to field a team that doesn't collapse when the big games of season are played. I think Fran needs to look in mirror.

Remember, Fran thought he had Tyler U to run the show and that fell through on the last day. If it hadn't we'd still be playing.

 

[Drew003]

I think the point is a lot of us think Fran blew the season with his big minutes to his 3 non-scoring seniors. There very well was talent that could have played and ended up improved by end of season. CW, Wagner stick out as two guys that could have played more. Who knows about Moss---probably would have played at most schools. The two guys that Fran picked to be our guard backups, Ellingson and Flemming contributed zero.

This botched season is large on Fran for not recruiting/developing any guard talent. Uthoff and Jok stepped up big time and their outstanding seasons were dragged down by lack of legitimate 3rd scorer/no ability for dribble drive/3pt/FT shooting and from guard positions and fielding a defense that got torched man to man in dribble drive.

Fran has a lot of qualities. His deficiencies have shown through in 2014 and 2016 with inability to field a team that doesn't collapse when the big games of season are played. I think Fran needs to look in mirror.

"Blew the season" might be strong. But I do wonder whether he made an error in his handling of Williams in particular. Williams has isolation potential, but he didn't get much run (probably because he also does stupid stuff on the court). But I think it was probably worth tolerating some mistakes earlier in the reason to have him farther along at the end. To be fair, we were also 10-1 in Big Ten at one point, and its hard to tolerate mistakes for long-term gain when you are winning at the clip.

 

[wbrhawkeye]

"Blew the season" might be strong. But I do wonder whether he made an error in his handling of Williams in particular. Williams has isolation potential, but he didn't get much run (probably because he also does stupid stuff on the court). But I think it was probably worth tolerating some mistakes earlier in the reason to have him farther along at the end. To be fair, we were also 10-1 in Big Ten at one point, and its hard to tolerate mistakes for long-term gain when you are winning at the clip.

I think Fran wanted Williams to learn 3 positions instead of just point guard so it took him longer. He should have just focused on how to play point guard in Fran's system this year. Then during the off season he could have learned the other two positions. I think that was the mistake.

 

[Ihawkhoops]

What's not to understand? Fran is trying to improve the roster, as he should be constantly. My guess is he probably has a good idea of whether or not anyone is leaving. Just because we have a glut of guys on the roster next year at similar positions (Jok, Fleming, Ellingson, Hutton, Moss) it doesn't mean you don't try to get better if you can. Out of that group, we have 1 sure thing (Jok) and a whole bunch of question marks. Fleming and Ellingson look like their top end is a guy off the bench who can make 3's (that's top end). Hutton and Moss have more upside, but will need time to develop.

It would not surprise me if there was more roster turnover this year and next than previously in Fran's tenure. Part of it is that Iowa missed on getting its top choices in some cases, and ended up with guys who may/may not make it at this level. It doesn't mean the world is ending. It's what happens. If someone is leaving, they are going to announce it sooner rather than later. If departing players wait until May or June to announce they are leaving, they will be without a place to land. If you are transferring, the best time to announce it is earlier rather than later. That way you can be officially released and have contact with coaches.

My first preference for next year would be a very good graduate transfer. Really at any position. The roster could be improved by a quality player anywhere. If not, a high school player who would be able to contribute next year would be welcome too.

Valid points and I don't disagree with any of your thread. My underlying concern, issue, gripe, etc., is that at this point, Fran can't be gambling on someone being athletic enough to play at this level. How a kid develops, matures, etc., is up to the kid, coaches, and maybe luck to an extent. Williams is clearly athletic enough to play at this level and as we saw in limited action, he was able to contribute. Ellingson and Fleming not the case IMO, or 1 or both would have played.

So why tie those spots up? Best case for either guy is likely a lower ceiling than what Fran could get from a juco, grad transfer, or a kid who is available late with fewer options. We are basically doing down the Pat Ingram / Kyle Meyer path again with guys who don't play despite glaring needs at their positions yet are on scholarship. Case in point: Khalil Iverson for Wisconsin. I don't think Bo or Gard taught him quickness or a 44" vertical.

 

[DavenportHawk8]

Does Fran hold an end of the year presser like KF does for Football??

Also someone mentioned in a podcast that Fran will be meeting w/the players during this week, so they thought we should hear of anyone transferring by the end of next week? Anyone know anything about that?

 

[Ihawkhoops]

"Blew the season" might be strong. But I do wonder whether he made an error in his handling of Williams in particular. Williams has isolation potential, but he didn't get much run (probably because he also does stupid stuff on the court). But I think it was probably worth tolerating some mistakes earlier in the reason to have him farther along at the end. To be fair, we were also 10-1 in Big Ten at one point, and its hard to tolerate mistakes for long-term gain when you are winning at the clip.

True, but at some point Fran had to know a: guys were going to get tired legs and b: teams would exploit the lack of scoring from AC and MG. Bench scoring early masked it (Uhl and Baer), but when that waned, we had no other options. I would have taken a slower start to the season and a stronger finish + feeling good about at least 2 of 3 guards getting meaningful minutes. I think you can play for this season and build for next season....Wisconsin and others do it year after year.

 

[herkI]

True, but at some point Fran had to know a: guys were going to get tired legs and b: teams would exploit the lack of scoring from AC and MG. Bench scoring early masked it (Uhl and Baer), but when that waned, we had no other options. I would have taken a slower start to the season and a stronger finish + feeling good about at least 2 of 3 guards getting meaningful minutes. I think you can play for this season and build for next season....Wisconsin and others do it year after year.

Agree, but you have to have the stable full enough to implement this and I think we might have enough horses starting next year.

 

[RocknRollface]

Those 3 playing significant minutes had Iowa ranked in the top 5 in the nation a little over a month ago. Whats Fran gonna do? Bench them and play freshman significant minutes the last 3 weeks or let those seniors play it out and see if they can get back to the way they were a month ago? Its pretty tough to make wholesale lineup changes in the middle of February, especially seniors to freshman.

Exactly, were all pissed that these seniors couldn't seal the deal.

But bitching about Fran not giving their minutes to freshman makes no sense if you are honest about how the season unfolded.

It was working perfectly for 2/3 of the season. How was he suposed to know they were going to fall apart?

At what point should he have started giving these freshman minutes? By the time the team started to fall apart in February it was to late.

This bitch fest is based on hindsight , revisionist history and untruths from guys like Ihawkhoops who want to pretend like they have some special insight.

Should Fran be held accountable for not getting other guards on the team. YES, but the fact that he tried repeatedly to do so should not be simply lied about now.

 

[RocknRollface]

True, but at some point Fran had to know a: guys were going to get tired legs and b: teams would exploit the lack of scoring from AC and MG. Bench scoring early masked it (Uhl and Baer), but when that waned, we had no other options. I would have taken a slower start to the season and a stronger finish + feeling good about at least 2 of 3 guards getting meaningful minutes. I think you can play for this season and build for next season....Wisconsin and others do it year after year.

All hindsight.

ISU is playing 6 guys and still going.

Should prohm have sat Morris for Cook because after he should have know about tired legs.

Do you understand what hindsight is and why you can't base an intelligent opinion on it?

 

[Ihawkhoops]

All hindsight.

ISU is playing 6 guys and still going.

Should prohm have sat Morris for Cook because after he should have know about tired legs.

Do you understand what hindsight is and why you can't base an intelligent opinion on it?

It's comical to see you make my points for me while in your mind you think you are proving me wrong. If we had 6 guys like ISU has, we could ride them like they are. Instead we play 2 on 5 offensively and they have an NBA caliber PG, an inside / outside scorer in Niang, a rim protector and finisher down low, a knock down 3 point shooter and newcomer of the year.

Here's a thought for your next post. If we were Golden State, we would win the big ten.

 

[Auburnallday]

Is there any names that Iowa are looking at??

 

[RocknRollface]

It's comical to see you make my points for me while in your mind you think you are proving me wrong. If we had 6 guys like ISU has, we could ride them like they are. Instead we play 2 on 5 offensively and they have an NBA caliber PG, an inside / outside scorer in Niang, a rim protector and finisher down low, a knock down 3 point shooter and newcomer of the year.

Here's a thought for your next post. If we were Golden State, we would win the big ten.

But "tired legs"? What about that? Only applies to Iowa? Im just pointing out how you constantly use hindsight to say what should have happened. Anyone can do that and it doesn't work.

You don't have any real point, just a series of vague random complaints and untrue statements.

Every time one of these gets shown to be inaccurate you shift to something else.

Every one knows Iowa could have used another legitimate ball handling guard but you don't need to invent a bunch of ideas and theories on why Fran didn't have one.

He simply didn't get it done recruiting for a couple years. Thats it. Hes not playing favorites or incapable of identifying talent or what he needed. He just couldn't convince most of his primary targets to come here and its not that hard to grasp why considering Iowa had basically no success prior to last year to speak of.

 

[oakhawk]

I want Romeo Langford.