Never in my Life have I been so Ashamed to be an American

[What Would Jesus Do?]

But should you?

If you want the benefits, then yes.

Do you want those benefits?

That might be easier to answer if you ask yourself what the opposite of diversity is.

Segregation. Racism. Exploitation. Suppression. Elitism. Xenophobia. Homophobia. Antisemitism. Religious discrimination. ... Those are some of the things likely to increase when diversity is under attack.

 

[ClarindaA's]

If you want the benefits, then yes.

Do you want those benefits?

That might be easier to answer if you ask yourself what the opposite of diversity is.

Segregation. Racism. Exploitation. Suppression. Elitism. Xenophobia. Homophobia. Antisemitism. Religious discrimination. ... Those are some of the things likely to increase when diversity is under attack.

I see what you are saying, Do you acknowledge that in areas where there is less diversity, it seems there is less social strife, crime, etc. Iceland, Finland? There are benefits to either way, sacrifices to either way as well. I’m talking more about in the workplace, jobs should be given to the most qualified and best applicants regardless of race. If that means more blacks are hired, that’s great and getting those jobs wouldn’t be questioned as DEI aided hires. I would think being a minority, having that doubt of “ did I get this because of DEI, or did I beat all the other candidates “ would bother me

 

[What Would Jesus Do?]

True, but it apparently correlates well. Perhaps it’s shared cultural values and less crime?

Appreciation of diversity is a desirable shared cultural value. Why are we trying to stamp it out?

 

[ISUBryce]

lol, I said the happiest societies, and they’ve measured, are not very diverse

They also spend vastly more on social programs. Couldn’t be any relation there either.

 

[RagnarLothbrok]

With respect rags, I don't think you have a clue on anything you just typed up

With all due respect, then educate me on where I am going wrong.

 

[ClarindaA's]

Appreciation of diversity is a desirable shared cultural value. Why are we trying to stamp it out?

It should be organic, not forced. Some parts aren’t appreciated. Islam isn’t anything I want imported to where I live ( it obviously won’t be). All cultures have some value and some negatives, perhaps some bring more negatives than the value the bring gives, in certain circumstances.

 

[Jerome Silberman]

Can you share a link for some of these scientifically proven differences between races?

 

[ClarindaA's]

I just showed a university of Delaware study, but it doesn’t fit your narrative. So…it’s not real

 

[What Would Jesus Do?]

I see what you are saying, Do you acknowledge that in areas where there is less diversity, it seems there is less social strife, crime, etc. Iceland, Finland? There are benefits to either way, sacrifices to either way as well

I've seen such data and won't debate them. But are you drawing the right conclusions? Was there more or less crime in the Jim Crow South?

Less crime as a result of relative homogeneity across race, religion, income, education, health care - which is what we see in Scandanavia - correlates with lower diversity, obviously. Less crime as a result of segregation and institutionalized racism - which we saw (and are likely to see again) in the Jim Crow South - also correlates with lower diversity, obviously.

If your objective is less crime through less diversity, I would suggest achieving that through the Scandanavian approach - not the Jim Crow approach.

Don't get me wrong, some diversity can be bad. Too much diversity in health care - such that some people get Cadillac care and some get little or none - is one example. Too much diversity in wealth - such that we have a few billionaires owning as much as the bottom half of our society, and we have the obscenely rich and the wretched poor in the same country - is another example. Ditto for the great diversity in education. And for the availability of clean air, water and land.

Liberals try tackle the diversity "problem" through leveling and elevating approaches like public education, progressive taxation, Medicare, an aggressive EPA, and so on.

What do conservatives do? We're seeing that now.

 

[RagnarLothbrok]

I see what you are saying, Do you acknowledge that in areas where there is less diversity, it seems there is less social strife, crime, etc. Iceland, Finland? There are benefits to either way, sacrifices to either way as well. I’m talking more about in the workplace, jobs should be given to the most qualified and best applicants regardless of race. If that means more blacks are hired, that’s great and getting those jobs wouldn’t be questioned as DEI aided hires. I would think being a minority, having that doubt of “ did I get this because of DEI, or did I beat all the other candidates “ would bother me

The countries you pointed out are indeed largely homogeneous.

And socialist.

Which means there is far less income inequality and poverty. There has also been no history of systemic and institutional racism.

Regardless, the question relevant to today is: Where do we go from here? There are a lot of important discussions that need to be had. The problem is America is so tribal none of these discussions are honest or effective. The truth is in poor, urban communities the culture is shit, as there is a cesspool of violence and fatherless homes that are not only prevalent but celebrated, particularly in music. There will be no real economic opportunity in those communities until there is actual law and order and a shift in culture.

On the flip side, there is so much trauma, hopelessness, and poor educational systems in urban areas, that the challenges for most are nearly insurmountable, especially when we still have an inequitable justice system.

Oh, and yes, DEI needs reformed.

 

[ClarindaA's]

I've seen such data and won't debate them. But are you drawing the right conclusions? Was there more or less crime in the Jim Crow South?

Less crime as a result of relative homogeneity across race, religion, income, education, health care - which is what we see in Scandanavia - correlates with lower diversity, obviously. Less crime as a result of segregation and institutionalized racism - which we saw (and are likely to see again) in the Jim Crow South - also correlates with lower diversity, obviously.

If your objective is less crime through less diversity, I would suggest achieving that through the Scandanavian approach - not the Jim Crow approach.

Don't get me wrong, some diversity can be bad. Too much diversity in health care - such that some people get Cadillac care and some get little or none - is one example. Too much diversity in wealth - such that we have a few billionaires owning as much as the bottom half of our society, and we have the obscenely rich and the wretched poor in the same country - is another example. Ditto for the great diversity in education. And for the availability of clean air, water and land.

Liberals try tackle the diversity "problem" through leveling and elevating approaches like public education, progressive taxation, Medicare, an aggressive EPA, and so on.

What do conservatives do? We're seeing that now.

Again, I would argue that forcing diversity isn’t a great idea. People are tribal and identify with their tribe, whatever that may be.

 

[Jerome Silberman]

I just showed a university of Delaware study, but it doesn’t fit your narrative. So…it’s not real

Shut up bigot. Your idiotic application of the data to serve your confirmation bias is the problem.

Literally the same broken logic that used to get put under windows wipers in the grocery store parking lot.

 

[ClarindaA's]

Shut up bigot. Your idiotic application of the data to serve your confirmation bias is the problem.

Literally the same broken logic that used to get put under windows wipers in the grocery store parking lot.

lol. Read the paper. Then we can discuss

 

[What Would Jesus Do?]

Again, I would argue that forcing diversity isn’t a great idea. People are tribal and identify with their tribe, whatever that may be.

Just to be clear, you would have opposed desegregation of public schools in the 50s and 60s? Where do you stand on redlining?

 

[Jerome Silberman]

The countries you pointed out are indeed largely homogeneous.

And socialist.

Which means there is far less income inequality and poverty. There has also been no history of systemic and institutional racism.

Regardless, the question relevant to today is: Where do we go from here? There are a lot of important discussions that need to be had. The problem is America is so tribal none of these discussions are honest or effective. The truth is in poor, urban communities the culture is shit, as there is a cesspool of violence and fatherless homes that are not only prevalent but celebrated, particularly in music. There will be no real economic opportunity in those communities until there is actual law and order and a shift in culture.

On the flip side, there is so much trauma, hopelessness, and poor educational systems in urban areas, that the challenges for most are nearly insurmountable, especially when we still have an inequitable justice system.

Oh, and yes, DEI needs reformed.

If clarindas American history x logic made any sense, his idea of racially homogeneous nations would always have been the happiest. That’s not the case, but it is a super common troupe among WS groups.

 

[gohawks50]

lol. Read the paper. Then we can discuss

This is what AI has to say about your study:

"Thirty Years of Research on Race Differences in Cognitive Ability" by Rushton and Jensen is a highly controversial paper that asserts substantial cognitive ability differences between racial groups based on a large collection of studies, but its validity is widely questioned due to concerns about research methods, the social construct of race, and the significant impact of environmental factors on observed differences; essentially, critics argue that the study may not accurately reflect true cognitive differences between races because of limitations in how race is defined and the potential for societal influences to skew results.

 

[ClarindaA's]

Just to be clear, you would have opposed desegregation of public schools in the 50s and 60s? Where do you stand on redlining?

No, equal opportunity is a good thing

 

[ClarindaA's]

This is what AI has to say about your study:

"Thirty Years of Research on Race Differences in Cognitive Ability" by Rushton and Jensen is a highly controversial paper that asserts substantial cognitive ability differences between racial groups based on a large collection of studies, but its validity is widely questioned due to concerns about research methods, the social construct of race, and the significant impact of environmental factors on observed differences; essentially, critics argue that the study may not accurately reflect true cognitive differences between races because of limitations in how race is defined and the potential for societal influences to skew results.

The authors try to adjust for socioeconomics. The same studies can be found in Europe and Africa with similar findings. So it’s not an “American” problem. If we can agree on that, I’m good.

 

[Huey Grey]

Go where , I’m just saying the push for diversity isn’t all that great.

Things that racists say.

 

[Huey Grey]

I see what you are saying, Do you acknowledge that in areas where there is less diversity, it seems there is less social strife, crime, etc. Iceland, Finland? There are benefits to either way, sacrifices to either way as well. I’m talking more about in the workplace, jobs should be given to the most qualified and best applicants regardless of race. If that means more blacks are hired, that’s great and getting those jobs wouldn’t be questioned as DEI aided hires. I would think being a minority, having that doubt of “ did I get this because of DEI, or did I beat all the other candidates “ would bother me

DEI helps the best qualified to get positions. Without it only white people get the jobs. How the fvck are you not getting this?

 

[ClarindaA's]

Things that racists say.

Can you explain how diversity has benefits and negatives. Just so we can both admit there are good and bad things that can come with it

 

[RagnarLothbrok]

If clarindas American history x logic made any sense, his idea of racially homogeneous nations would always have been the happiest. That’s not the case, but it is a super common troupe among WS groups.

I don’t know what Clarinda’s point or intentions are. If he’s trying to have an honest discussion, then I’m cool with him. And said as much. But if he’s here just to regurgitate Klan talking points and has no interest in actual dialogue, then I’m not going to take him seriously or engage.

I believe he’s here to have an honest discussion, so I am giving him the benefit of the doubt.

 

[ClarindaA's]

DEI helps the best qualified to get positions. Without it only white people get the jobs. How the fvck are you not getting this?

That’s not true

 

[Huey Grey]

No, equal opportunity is a good thing

Says equal opportunity is good.

Bashes DEI which is all about equal opportunity

 

[ClarindaA's]

I don’t know what Clarinda’s point or intentions are. If he’s trying to have an honest discussion, then I’m cool with him. And said as much. But if he’s here just to regurgitate Klan talking points and has no interest in actual dialogue, then I’m not going to take him seriously or engage.

I believe he’s here to have an honest discussion, so I am giving him the benefit of the doubt.

This, and thank you. I’m not sure why discussing things is so taboo or questioning things is abhorrent.

 

[Huey Grey]

That’s not true

It absolutely is true. See Trump's gd cabinet for example. Nearly all white. Virtually nobody is qualified.

 

[Huey Grey]

Can you explain how diversity has benefits and negatives. Just so we can both admit there are good and bad things that can come with it

Not everybody is white you idiot. America is a melting pot. Nearly half of us aren't white. So stop with your Nazi bullshit that we would all be better off if only all of us were white. It's not happening. Black and brown people exist. Deal with it.

 

[Jerome Silberman]

I don’t know what Clarinda’s point or intentions are. If he’s trying to have an honest discussion, then I’m cool with him. And said as much. But if he’s here just to regurgitate Klan talking points and has no interest in actual dialogue, then I’m not going to take him seriously or engage.

I believe he’s here to have an honest discussion, so I am giving him the benefit of the doubt.

Have fun and don't twist your ankle in the honest discussion about white sepratisim.

 

[ClarindaA's]

It absolutely is true. See Trump's gd cabinet for example. Nearly all white. Virtually nobody is qualified.

Trumps a dipshit, but he does have a lot of women in there

 

[hawkeyetraveler]

View embedded media

Or, and I know this is hard for you to understand, we could force the tram driver to stop the tram and pay for the damage he has caused. The west has this capability, but we have been too chickenshit to play hard ball with Putin. I have heard WW3 for years from the far right. We heard it when we discussed providing small arms. We heard it when we discussed sending Bradleys, then with the Abrams tanks, then with the F16’s. I’m sure if France puts troops on the ground we will hear it again. It’s all a bullshit threat. Putin ain’t going nuclear over Ukraine.

So yeah, let’s be pussies instead and ignore the one guy who could actually bring peace immediately and instead blame it all on the country defending themselves.

Bizarre stuff my guy.

 

[ClarindaA's]

Have fun and don't twist your ankle in the honest discussion about white sepratisim.

Never once did I bring white separatist ideas in here. Just think pushing diversity with the law is not a benefit. Then we got on the IQ studies, which was my fault. Do you think it’s ok to say blacks are on average better athletes?

 

[ClarindaA's]

Not everybody is white you idiot. America is a melting pot. Nearly half of us aren't white. So stop with your Nazi bullshit that we would all be better off if only all of us were white. It's not happening. Black and brown people exist. Deal with it.

You’re being hyperbolic. Exaggerating what I am stating. Sit down, breath and debate the studies, and debate why legislation that pushes diversity over merit is good

 

[win4jj]

I would like to make a motion to adjourn this thread.

 

[Jerome Silberman]

Never once did I bring white separatist ideas in here. Just think pushing diversity with the law is not a benefit. Then we got on the IQ studies, which was my fault. Do you think it’s ok to say blacks are on average better athletes?

Yes, you are.

 

[Huey Grey]

Trumps a dipshit, but he does have a lot of women in there

White women. You just keep proving my point. How the fvck is the WWE lady at all qualified for her position?

 

[ClarindaA's]

White women. You just keep proving my point. How the fvck is the WWE lady at all qualified for her position?

Is tulsi white?

Yes, you are.

no, I’m questioning the benefits of legislating diversity

 

[gohawks50]

no, I’m questioning the benefits of legislating diversity

Without programs like Affirmative Action and DEI when do you think hiring practices would have changed organically to include people that were not white?

 

[Huey Grey]

Is tulsi white?

no, I’m questioning the benefits of legislating diversity

Why are you not answering my question? How is McMahons wife qualified? How is RFK? How is Hegs? How are any of these white garbage heaps qualified?

 

[ClarindaA's]

Without programs like Affirmative Action and DEI when do you think hiring practices would have changed organically to include people that were not white?

I can see in the 50s-70s….maybe the early 80s, but not anymore

 

[ClarindaA's]

Why are you not answering my question? How is McMahons wife qualified? How is RFK? How is Hegs? How are any of these white garbage heaps qualified?

I said Trump is a dipshit, not a fan of his. It doesn’t negate my point. You can’t have a reasonable dialogue because there is no gray area…you are binary, either full progressive or nazi. Not realistic at all