Newbies: Sioux Falls Review

[JerryDennard]

Without the benefit of stats, just going by watching the game:

Ellingson: The big fear with him is that he's Ogls 2.0. Actually, his floor is much lower (at this early point) bc Ogles at least brought size, defense, savvy and court vision. He did nothing today to dispel that fear but yes, it's just 1 game.

Fleming: Ended up with 8 points. Almost all on fast breaks off turnovers. Did hit a nice runner. Has good instincts and a nose for the ball. Knock has been defense - he will learn, but he got schooled a couple times.

Williams: Poised, played within himself - impressed with his long arms on defense, where he forced at least 1 turnover (and almost a 2nd). Think he took one garbage time shot from 3 that missed, hit 1 shot in the lane that did remind me of Dev. Looked good!

Jones: Reminded me of a freshman year Jok - a gunner, like it was painful to pass. Actually only hoisted one three but it just seemed like you could see the wheels turning when he had the ball - he wanted to shoot, but was being careful. As a result, the ball movement just lagged for a beat. Good rebounder, lazy rotations on D.

Baer: Very impressed with him - reminded me of a young Bowen, always around the ball. Has a NICE stroke from 3, hit 2 in the game in rhythm no hesitation. Played a lot of minutes at the end of the 1st half when Woody picked up 2 fouls, finshed with 8 points. Efficient but not explosive.

Wagner: Looks like Tarzan and kind of plays like Tarzan. Raw. Would be an incredible TE if he could block. Reminded me of all those non-Sullinger OSU big bodies that are surprisingly ineffective in games. Again, it's very early.

Moss: Didn't see much (less than 5 min) but he definitely seems fast! Great feet will make him a nice lateral defender. Got caught sleeping on a couple of rotations, and airballed a 3. Doesn't seem to know how to create in half court, or maybe just tentative. Probably should redshirt.

Hutton: Only got 2 minutes. Didn't see much but looks the part. Defensively, he almost got burned but his man missed his shot. Probably should redshirt.

Very interesting that Fran didn't play Moss and Hutton until garbage time (less than 5 minutes, up 20). Fran is managing their expectations is my guess. Or seeing if we can survive without them in the heavy rotation. We might need a Moss, not so sure about Hutton just yet.

The spacing and ball movement was horrendous at times - which makes sense it's early and these are newbies - but that probably contributed to the unwatchableness of this early exhibition. Lots of potential here - can't wait to see them "gel."

 

[WildIowaCat]

It's an exhibition every minute is garbage/evaluation/tinkering time.

 

[HerkysDad]

Without the benefit of stats, just going by watching the game:

Ellingson: The big fear with him is that he's Ogls 2.0. Actually, his floor is much lower (at this early point) bc Ogles at least brought size, defense, savvy and court vision. He did nothing today to dispel that fear but yes, it's just 1 game.

Fleming: Ended up with 8 points. Almost all on fast breaks off turnovers. Did hit a nice runner. Has good instincts and a nose for the ball. Knock has been defense - he will learn, but he got schooled a couple times.

Williams: Poised, played within himself - impressed with his long arms on defense, where he forced at least 1 turnover (and almost a 2nd). Think he took one garbage time shot from 3 that missed, hit 1 shot in the lane that did remind me of Dev. Looked good!

Jones: Reminded me of a freshman year Jok - a gunner, like it was painful to pass. Actually only hoisted one three but it just seemed like you could see the wheels turning when he had the ball - he wanted to shoot, but was being careful. As a result, the ball movement just lagged for a beat. Good rebounder, lazy rotations on D.

Baer: Very impressed with him - reminded me of a young Bowen, always around the ball. Has a NICE stroke from 3, hit 2 in the game in rhythm no hesitation. Played a lot of minutes at the end of the 1st half when Woody picked up 2 fouls, finshed with 8 points. Efficient but not explosive.

Wagner: Looks like Tarzan and kind of plays like Tarzan. Raw. Would be an incredible TE if he could block. Reminded me of all those non-Sullinger OSU big bodies that are surprisingly ineffective in games. Again, it's very early.

Moss: Didn't see much (less than 5 min) but he definitely seems fast! Great feet will make him a nice lateral defender. Got caught sleeping on a couple of rotations, and airballed a 3. Doesn't seem to know how to create in half court, or maybe just tentative. Probably should redshirt.

Hutton: Only got 2 minutes. Didn't see much but looks the part. Defensively, he almost got burned but his man missed his shot. Probably should redshirt.

Very interesting that Fran didn't play Moss and Hutton until garbage time (less than 5 minutes, up 20). Fran is managing their expectations is my guess. Or seeing if we can survive without them in the heavy rotation. We might need a Moss, not so sure about Hutton just yet.

The spacing and ball movement was horrendous at times - which makes sense it's early and these are newbies - but that probably contributed to the unwatchableness of this early exhibition. Lots of potential here - can't wait to see them "gel."

Good wrtite up. Of all the first timers, I too was most impressed with Baer. Lots of growing pains with this young team. For an exhibition game, the opponent kept it interesting. However, I think the refs wore out their whistles during the game.

 

[FranklinHawk]

It's only 1 game and an exhibition at that, but Ellingson has to see Fleming nipping at his heels. Brady has the advantage of a year in the system understanding what Fran wants to do, as Fleming gets more time to understand that I see Brady having a decision to make.

But again, it's only 1 "scrimmage".

 

[iowaguy88]

Not sure I agree Moss should redshirt unless it's just because he's having a tough time picking up the plays, he's already our most athletic player and from a pure potential standpoint he could really come along by the time March rolls around.

I know it's just an exhibition game, but Fran's rotation is already worrisome and puzzling. I could see him try to play 12 guys as opposed to the top 8-9. Looks like Fran wants Ellingson to be the next OG, just when I thought we were done with that. Why Jones, Moss and some of the other newbies didn't play more is beyond me as this is the perfect opportunity to get their feet wet when the game doesn't count and the 4 year guys aren't going to be unsettled when the lights come on for real.

MG and Jok looked really impressive, I expected Woody to make a big leap his Sr. year but he looked no different whatsoever. He was easily the most disappointing, especially considering he had 5-6 inches on whoever was guarding him.

 

[hooper56]

Agree with Jerry's thoughts. Brady ahead of Flemming now because he understands the offense and defense better at this point. Brady better knock down shots though or Flemming will pass him.

I really liked Williams. Biggest surprise of the night. I think I see why Fran didn't feel like we had to get another pg recruited. I believe we will be just fine with Williams at the point and Bohannon as his backup next year. Obviously way too soon to make that call but that is what it is looking like to me.

 

[WORTHYWISH]

It's only 1 game and an exhibition at that, but Ellingson has to see Fleming nipping at his heels. Brady has the advantage of a year in the system understanding what Fran wants to do, as Fleming gets more time to understand that I see Brady having a decision to make.

But again, it's only 1 "scrimmage".

I see what you're seeing. If Ellingson ends up Oglesby 2.0, he probably transfers. Hopefully, that doesn't happen, but Fleming sure looks ready to go.

 

[iowaguy88]

I see what you're seeing. If Ellingson ends up Oglesby 2.0, he probably transfers. Hopefully, that doesn't happen, but Fleming sure looks ready to go.

I wish this was the case. Unfortunately, if Ellingson ends up like JO Fran probably plays him 20-25 min. a game and routinely talks up his practices. Ellingson is shooting 48% from 3 in practice per Fran ... it's already started.

 

[nu2u]

I wish this was the case. Unfortunately, if Ellingson ends up like JO Fran probably plays him 20-25 min. a game and routinely talks up his practices. Ellingson is shooting 48% from 3 in practice per Fran ... it's already started.

Ellingson is shooting 66% (4-6) from 3PT range in official NCAA sanctioned games (early 2014 season) so 48% in practice doesn't sound all that outrageous to me. Granted, his body of work is still limited but he came to Iowa with a reputation as a clutch shooter with a solid 3PT average. I'd be willing to bet that BE will finish the season with a 3PT FG% at 40% or above.

 

[Curt Furence]

I just remember in the Iowa State game last year Ellingson looked very slow footed. He didn't play many minutes but that was what I noticed

 

[iowaguy88]

Ellingson is shooting 66% (4-6) from 3PT range in official NCAA sanctioned games (early 2014 season) so 48% in practice doesn't sound all that outrageous to me. Granted, his body of work is still limited but he came to Iowa with a reputation as a clutch shooter with a solid 3PT average. I'd be willing to bet that BE will finish the season with a 3PT FG% at 40% or above.

4-6 is nowhere near a large enough sample size to draw any sort of insight from.
Let's be real, which white guard/wing who lacks athleticism for Iowa hasn't had a reputation as a shooter? It's a pretty common narrative, JO had said reputation and was the worst 3PT shooter in the nation statistically his junior year.

By the way, I will take that bet with you regarding Ellingson as I'm guessing most people would. Kid missed 3 straight FT's too...

 

[hawkfan55]

4-6 is nowhere near a large enough sample size to draw any sort of insight from.
Let's be real, which white guard/wing who lacks athleticism for Iowa hasn't had a reputation as a shooter? It's a pretty common narrative, JO had said reputation and was the worst 3PT shooter in the nation statistically his junior year.

By the way, I will take that bet with you regarding Ellingson as I'm guessing most people would. Kid missed 3 straight FT's too...

Not sure you're serious. Worst 3-point shooter in the nation? Those 0-fers would be hard to beat.

 

[vinhawk]

Ellingson is shooting 66% (4-6) from 3PT range in official NCAA sanctioned games (early 2014 season) so 48% in practice doesn't sound all that outrageous to me. Granted, his body of work is still limited but he came to Iowa with a reputation as a clutch shooter with a solid 3PT average. I'd be willing to bet that BE will finish the season with a 3PT FG% at 40% or above.

 

[stomper90]

How about Ellingson's 0 for 3 from the line on that 3 he was fouled on. Wtf?

 

[DanL53]

Sounds like you have some easy winnings coming your way nu2u.

And as far as being slow of foot last year. Might have had something to do with a leg that was injured.

 

[hansenhawk]

If Ellingson gets the PT over Flemming, it will be borderline criminal. No knock on the kid, but I just don't think he is a division 1 basketball player. Said that the minute they signed him. Maybe he will prove me wrong, but I just don't see it. Like someone said above, at least Oglesby had the size. Ellingson is honestly a player you see at the D2 or 3 level.

 

[hooper56]

If Ellingson gets the PT over Flemming, it will be borderline criminal. No knock on the kid, but I just don't think he is a division 1 basketball player. Said that the minute they signed him. Maybe he will prove me wrong, but I just don't see it. Like someone said above, at least Oglesby had the size. Ellingson is honestly a player you see at the D2 or 3 level.

LOL. You could not be more wrong.

 

[nu2u]

If Ellingson gets the PT over Flemming, it will be borderline criminal. No knock on the kid, but I just don't think he is a division 1 basketball player. Said that the minute they signed him. Maybe he will prove me wrong, but I just don't see it. Like someone said above, at least Oglesby had the size. Ellingson is honestly a player you see at the D2 or 3 level.

Yeah because Fran McCaffery is clueless in evaluating basketball talent - he wouldn't recognize a Division 1 shooter if his life depended on it.

 

[Kurt Warner]

If Ellingson gets the PT over Flemming, it will be borderline criminal. No knock on the kid, but I just don't think he is a division 1 basketball player. Said that the minute they signed him. Maybe he will prove me wrong, but I just don't see it. Like someone said above, at least Oglesby had the size. Ellingson is honestly a player you see at the D2 or 3 level.

Come on dude give the kid a chance

 

[milehighhawkeye24]

Wow, 1 exhibition game and we have posters already complaining about players and rotation......last year many we're calling for assistants heads b4 the bigten run......relax people

 

[lovedwatchingLester]

Lots of work to do to get this team to run smoothly, but this was very nearly what I expected as I watched. I stated in another thread that biggest issues were team trying to do too much, ie like running out before rebound was secured, switching on defense and closing out on shooters, also trying to be a bit cute with some passing. They have ability to make some teams look overmatched when they are all on the same page, they aren't there yet. I was encouraged with some individuals play, Gessel, second half, Peter Jok, end of first half and into second half, Baer in his limited minutes, Sapp when he plays within himself though I think he wants at times to show the fancy moves, passes, spectacular stuff, which he can do but when he misses on it it often results in a turnover. I expect more than I saw from Woodbury( finishing) and Uthoff taking more control I want to see a more aggressive and dominant Dominic Uhl and more confident getting into the flow Dale Jones, but time I hope works this out as it becomes more clear who needs to do what to get wins and that is what will get sorted hopefully sooner than later. BE will be fine by the way, he can shoot lights out and isn't as bad an athlete as some here suspect. He hasn't played when it counts in awhile either and I saw some tentative in his game yesterday. The freshman are freshman, some tentative,( moss, Hutton ) not wanting to make mistakes and others overly aggressive ( Wagner and Fleming) that say if I am going down I am going to do it my way, lol. Williams I thought came out the best blending the two but there was a moment for him where it could have gone either way too. A bad pass in one instance and some tough on ball pressure where he held his own and the next time caused his defender to back off. I love watching the little battles of these games and will be there again next Friday to see what one games film does to change outcomes, not game outcomes but those little battles within the game that shape the player. So looking forward to see this season play out.

 

[nu2u]

Wow, 1 exhibition game and we have posters already complaining about players and rotation......last year many we're calling for assistants heads b4 the bigten run......relax people

You are not reading carefully enough --hansenhawk knew that one of the team's best 3PT shooters was not a division 1 basketball player "the minute they signed him".

 

[djwoody]

Sure is a lot of hand wringing over one OCTOBER scrimmage. They'll look like a different team in a few weeks.

 

[johnnashhawk]

Ellonhspn was voted best shooter in Wi as a senior...lot of d1 players in the state. His stroke is smooth as silk...those will drop most of the time. Defense will factor into his minutes.

 

[hansenhawk]

Just stating an opinion, nothing more, nothing less. I hope he proves me wrong!

 

[nu2u]

I hope he proves me wrong!

I love how some posters retreat to the supposedly safe harbor of fake well-wishing by uttering these weasel words after absolutely ripping shit on a player.

Does anyone seriously believe that hansenhawk "hopes" Ellingson makes him look like a fool? This after hansenhawk railed him?

hansenhawk firmly believes that Brady Ellingson is not talented enough to warrant an NCAA Division1 scholarship ("I said so the minute they signed him") --that is about as strong of an opinion as one can hold, before the recruit has played one minute of college ball.

Keep in mind that there are 350 NCAA Division1 basketball programs. There are more than 5,000 athletes playing Division1 basketball.

hansenhawk wants you to believe that Brady Ellingson is not talented enough to be included in the top 5,000 or so basketball recruits in the USA. That's what he is saying about Ellingson; that Fran Mccaffery made a monumental evaluation mistake by offering BE a scholarship to play basketball at Iowa.

By using that disingenuous phrase ("I hope he proves me wrong") hansenhawk is putting the blanket over a dead body. I'm not buying it.

 

[DanHawkPella]

Baer and Williams were the 2 guys that stuck out to me. Baer being able to hit 3's and look comfortable at it was a HUGE revelation and I think he could get serious minutes if he can do that, because it makes him more than just a garbage guy on offense. He's making it tougher to figure minutes between Wagner, Uhl, Jones and him although Uhl will get minutes at Center.

Williams length helps as much on offense as defense....he can just pass over or around people or can take his guy inside and shoot over him. Lots of potential there.

Most of the other new guys really need another 10 games and 30 practices to see who comes into their own. Looks like Wagner is getting some love, and I agree Fleming will end up with minutes.

Ellingson isn't a physical specimen but if he plays smart and shoots like McCausland, he definitely brings more physically than Kent did. But if he shoots under 40% from 3 then I think Fleming could be a better choice.

 

[Kurt Warner]

Moss and hutton didn't really play enough to form any kind of opinion, hopefully they get more time next exhibition

 

[DanL53]

A few random thoughts.

I thought that in the first half the experienced guys played down to their competition a bit. What they called shaking the rust off. In the first 4 1/2 minutes of the second half Iowa scored 19 points. There were your Iowa starters when the season really gets going. Scoring at over a 150 ppg clip against anyone is impressive. But as always, we do it by being dialed in and running our offense. There you go...we didn't dial in at the start of the game. Our guys know it.

The newbies. If we had one or two, even three new guys it would be less chaotic while they learn. None of them have to be starters. Some of them need to be role players. I saw some guys still trying to earn minutes instead of earn playing time. I know..., but think about it. First three guys to play in the team scheme are going to be #7,8, and 9 off the bench. Time for guys to settle down and not try to prove anything, just play like they are being taught.

It's early. It's early. It's early. But the big key to how much success we have is getting that second unit playing good basketball. They will get better. Question is how fast, and how much.

 

[CRPodhaj]

A few random thoughts.

I thought that in the first half the experienced guys played down to their competition a bit. What they called shaking the rust off. In the first 4 1/2 minutes of the second half Iowa scored 19 points. There were your Iowa starters when the season really gets going. Scoring at over a 150 ppg clip against anyone is impressive. But as always, we do it by being dialed in and running our offense. There you go...we didn't dial in at the start of the game. Our guys know it.

The newbies. If we had one or two, even three new guys it would be less chaotic while they learn. None of them have to be starters. Some of them need to be role players. I saw some guys still trying to earn minutes instead of earn playing time. I know..., but think about it. First three guys to play in the team scheme are going to be #7,8, and 9 off the bench. Time for guys to settle down and not try to prove anything, just play like they are being taught.

It's early. It's early. It's early. But the big key to how much success we have is getting that second unit playing good basketball. They will get better. Question is how fast, and how much.

BINGO, Dan. I was there (something that almost never happens). Meant to contribute earlier because I always appreciate when others do.

Defensively, Iowa did okay in the first half, but offensively the starters obviously did not take SF seriously and it showed in the silly turnovers and lack of ball movement trying to make the "great" or "fancy" play. The offense was totally "sideways" with lots of one-on-one play (credit SF who actually came to play). And that put the pressure on the defense to stand up as SF started slowly to run their sets. Once Woody went out in the first half, the defense couldn't carry it all by itself. And SF hit a number of DEEP and / or contested shots (this also evened out in the second half).

At halftime, Iowa "talked" a long time. Normally, teams come out with five or four minutes to go before the second half; Iowa came out with less than three minutes. Coaching happened - and BOOM - 19 points in 4 and a half minutes. The game was never really close after that.

As far as back-ups, without looking at official stats and just through memory, I think Ellingson and Wagner were first off the bench, followed by Uhl, and then Fleming and Baer. Those were the first five off the bench. Really, shouldn't be a surprise that the first ones off the bench were the lone sophomore, the two red-shirts, and the two probably most ready freshman by body type (Wagner - possibly the best physical specimen on the team) or experience (Fleming from Oakhill).

Interesting that Jones was not in the first five up (as I can remember it - could easily be off). And Moss and Hutton just didn't get much of a chance. Really, it was a third to half way through the second half before there was a line-up without a single starter. Also, by Coach Fran's post game comments, I wonder if he is concerned about confidence for Moss (who he openly complimented for taking shots even if he didn't make them) and Hutton (who he stated the coaches may have thrown too much at him too soon).

Other random thoughts: Woody just needs to finish; he left six to eight points on the court. And Woody is the defensive heart and soul of this team - people need to really get their mind around that (see comment about first half above).
Uthoff was trying to be the man and played a bit out of sorts. Good to see the aggression, just relax, breathe, finish on shots you usually make (easy for me to say).
Clemmons, Gesell, Jok - yes, yes and yes. They played great once they took the offensive end seriously.

We need to remember this is the first time we've seen Iowa this early into practices maybe ever? There is a lot of material there. Look at the stats for the second half - double those, and that is probably what we were all expecting. It is there. Also, undermanned SF did come to play - saw Coach Fran talk for a bit with their head coach after the game; I'm betting he was very complimentary of their effort.

 

[hawksense]

If, as Fran stated in postgame, Jared and Dom are going to play timidly instead of aggresively, then I root for someone new to play with unwarranted confidence and will to win. Youth can teach experience just as much in some instances.

I don't think it will play out this way. I'm just saying.

 

[stomper90]

If, as Fran stated in postgame, Jared and Dom are going to play timidly instead of aggresively, then I root for someone new to play with unwarranted confidence and will to win. Youth can teach experience just as much in some instances.

I don't think it will play out this way. I'm just saying.

Is there a link to his post game audio? Haven't seen posted anywhere?

 

[FranklinHawk]

How about Ellingson's 0 for 3 from the line on that 3 he was fouled on. Wtf?

That honestly was the kicker for me. Maybe just one of those "bad" games, but generally great shooters make FT's. Hope he turns it around and I'm wrong.

 

[Phenomenally Frantastic]

bc Ogles at least brought size, defense, savvy and court vision.

stopped reading here.

 

[Phenomenally Frantastic]

How about Ellingson's 0 for 3 from the line on that 3 he was fouled on. Wtf?

He looked a little jacked up out there. Looked a lot better in PTL.

Rushed all three shots from the line. Not smooth and no follow through.

He'll get it corrected.

 

[DanL53]

He looked a little jacked up out there. Looked a lot better in PTL.

Rushed all three shots from the line. Not smooth and no follow through.

He'll get it corrected.

Just to add a thought. Last season, very early, we went through a few games where anyone who had a good game was going to have a great year and anyone who struggled might as well have been shot. And those characters changed game to game. It all comes down to this.....

People were sticking their futuristic probes into the hindsight of the most recent game like some rectal thermometer.

That's no way to prognosticate! And it sounds kind of nasty!

The fact that Ellingson missed three free throws in a row might belong on a trivia question someday...but that's about it.

 

[hooper56]

Just stating an opinion, nothing more, nothing less. I hope he proves me wrong!

He doesn't have to prove anything to you or anyone else.

 

[hawk-i bob]

I love how some posters retreat to the supposedly safe harbor of fake well-wishing by uttering these weasel words after absolutely ripping shit on a player.

Does anyone seriously believe that hansenhawk "hopes" Ellingson makes him look like a fool? This after hansenhawk railed him?

hansenhawk firmly believes that Brady Ellingson is not talented enough to warrant an NCAA Division1 scholarship ("I said so the minute they signed him") --that is about as strong of an opinion as one can hold, before the recruit has played one minute of college ball.

Keep in mind that there are 350 NCAA Division1 basketball programs. There are more than 5,000 athletes playing Division1 basketball.

hansenhawk wants you to believe that Brady Ellingson is not talented enough to be included in the top 5,000 or so basketball recruits in the USA. That's what he is saying about Ellingson; that Fran Mccaffery made a monumental evaluation mistake by offering BE a scholarship to play basketball at Iowa.

By using that disingenuous phrase ("I hope he proves me wrong") hansenhawk is putting the blanket over a dead body. I'm not buying it.

well said....

retreat
fake well-wishing
fool
disingenuous

 

[iowaguy88]

Not sure you're serious. Worst 3-point shooter in the nation? Those 0-fers would be hard to beat.

I'm serious. JO was the worst 3-point shooter in the nation - you needed so many attempts to qualify but she shot 26% one year.. 29% another. Somehow had the reputation of being a shooter, despite not shooting well.

 

[Rustys Dad]

Well ... many of us can remember how BAD the Iowa football team looked during it's Spring outing here in Des Moines ...

To the OP, thanks for the post ... I didn't get a chance to see or listen to the game.