Whatever. Iowa State isn't event the best program in its state. Yet, In the three (3) years Cael was head coach at Iowa State, he managed to finish second, third and fifth in the country. Iowa State has only finished in the top 10 once since Cael left.
NLWC Slush Fund
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I meant that its good business for a Wrestling Club to operate that way, if it is allowed. Not that it was necessarily good business for the sport as a whole
Do you mean the book about Bobby Douglas and how the great one got his coach fired so he could have his job?
In case you missed it, the reason ISU fell apart when Cael left is because he destroyed the program - pushed Bobby Douglas out and left for PSU with all his stud recruits. Iowa State was doing just fine until Cael crapped on them.
The only thing in my post that is not a provable and established fact is my opinion that Iowa State is not the best program in its state. So I can only assume you are referring my foregoing opinion and you actually believe Iowa State is the best program in the state.
I appreciate the facts he brought to the discussion..... It is way more facts than you provided.....did you pull the NLWC tax returns and review/provide when this discussion started? Any COMPETENT investigative journalist would have done it.....but that really isnt you is it--you really just provide your "Big Brain" opinions.
all this would make wonderful sense IF
IF you, or anyone else had any evidence of it. For the life of me I can't believe that neither Vodka nor the poster with the avatar of a doofus from a 50 year-old movie with pencils hanging out of his nose have cracked the case wide open yet.
they should keep trying though. if i were those two i wouldn't stop until i got to the bottom of it.
I have no idea if anything shady is going on. I’m not about to throw out any accusations, or call anybody a cheater.
With that said, I would love to hear how somebody gets 25 blue chip recruits onto a roster with 9.9 scholarships.
With that said, I would love to hear how somebody gets 25 blue chip recruits onto a roster with 9.9 scholarships.
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anon_0pi0cv8t1ggvb
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Find a single post where I've alleged that PSU has cheated. I'm waiting for evidence too.
sure. that's the thing. i don't know how they do it either. or ok state. or NC State. both of those bring in way more bodies including tons of Top 100's (more than PSU, actually). Frankly, Iowa and tOSU aren't far behind.
Frankly, if you look at their classes and (objectively) measure them PSU aint all that more 'manageable' than, say, NC State. on an average year PSU brings in 2 or 3 in top 15. NC State will bring in 3 top 50's and 8 guys overall. OKST very similar. Hell, Cornell brings truckloads in (tuition totally free if household makes less than 160k).
You know how many Top 100's Cornell has brought in in the last four classes...18! Over the same period - PSU 9, Iowa 10, OKST 13 , NC State 17!
lol. was it not you that turned something in to the ncaa and compliance depts?
if it was someone else, my apologies (sincerely. i thought it was u)
What is the guess on how much $'s the #50- #100 recruits get at PSU, Iowa, OKSt, O$U?
Not evidence of cheating at all but the financial disparity is striking. If they broke out the salaries so we could see it the allegations would slow down.
NLWC - $589,781 investment income, $590,940 in salaries 2018. $72k was for the director. That doesn’t include the $178k that the Penn State Wrestling club spent for its members to travel to meets in 2018.
HWC spent $22k on travel and had $16k in investment income and ended the year with less net assets than NLWC had in investment income. The gap is widening financially and the opportunity for a shell game of money becomes far easier. Do you think the parents of wrestlers in the Penn State Wrestling Club get the same ‘travel money’ as Joe the barber who is a member? Lots of ways to get to the end result.
Anybody else see the game Willie plays here vs the PSU board? Good god. I still can't grasp how @smalls103 can have both of Cael's nuts in his mouth without losing his dip of chaw. True Talent.
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No, I haven't turned anything in. I called/emailed about 10 different school's compliance departments 5 years ago or so. Sent the same email to each of them. Very generic. Didn't specify that I'm an Iowa fan/alumnus.
I inquired how they handle compliance of camp payments to athletes. Literally the only compliance department that responded was the University of Iowa.
The PSU person took my number and said they'd call back because everyone was "busy in a meeting" at the moment. Never heard from them.
Also called the NCAA compliance office at that time and they outright said they don't oversee anything regarding camp payments to athletes and it's up to each school's compliance office to regulate that.
Why don't you give it a try. You'd probably have better luck getting responses being a media member.
Note that all of these schools' compliance departments have a contact us page on their sites and generally encourage/invite questions from the public.
This is from U Iowa's page:
"The mission of the Compliance Office is to advance The University of Iowa's commitment to the highest standards and principles of ethical behavior and strict adherence to the letter and spirit of the NCAA and Big Ten rules.
This website is designed to be a resource for University of Iowa boosters, alumni, friends, prospective and enrolled student-athletes. Due to the complexity of NCAA rules, this website should not be relied on exclusively. If you have questions regarding NCAA rules, please contact us!"
I support innocent until proven guilty, but the primary issue that I have is the conflict of interest in place that requires each school to take it upon themselves to report/handle violations. The NCAA does not want to be in charge of investigating compliance.
College football players paid to work camps -- problem in the making?
Jeremy Fowler takes a look at the new practice of college football players working summer camps for their schools.
www.google.com
I don't think the sport of wrestling has any investigative journalists. Coaches have outright said they suspect foul play. There's certainly been smoke, but no evidence. Then again is anyone looking?
While we're on the topic of compliance, explain to me how Daddy Fix, and Chris Perry suffered zero consequences for sourcing PEDs to an athlete?
Jay Robinson's career ended because he tried to keep the punishment of his wrestlers using Adderall in house rather than reporting them to the police and getting them criminal records, yet Chris Perry/Papa Fix can coach without suspension for telling their athlete which type of PED to take and where to get it?
lol. i'm not playing any game. read your freakin sig line. when there's good discussion to be had i'm here for it. you just don't like that i call it as i see it.
- also, thank you for your service
this is the long and short of it for me. if someone in wrestling got popped tomorrow for recruiting violations/inequities it wouldn't shock me. it's happened before in wrestling and a multitude of times in other sports.
Lemme make my points as clear as possible
1) there's zero/zip/nada evidence of foul play from any program i know of.
2) pointing to a lump sum donation as a smoking gun is ludicrous. Y'all just raised 5 times more for a facility than psu did.
3) despite constant moaning and groaning that psu wins only because of recruiting, several programs are neck and neck with them and many have brought in more Top 100's overall. the discrepancy isn't what you think it is.
imo, psu is the target b/c they win so much. 'how do they afford it?' 'they must be cheating.' 'they must be skirting the rules and making promises'
I don't know how they do it.
But what's the difference between PSU and NC ST? or OK State?
NC State has a massive, massive cash flow of support from an outside donor. And they bring in more Top 100 recruits than anyone. But because they finish Top 10 and not Top 3 not a single person brings them up.
their situation is far more 'how can they do that' than penn state. okst is right there. tOSU? how do they do it?
i don't know but i also don't think any of them are cheating and will continue to think that until it's proven otherwise. I think they are just good at their job and i think they have built brands that kids want to wrestle for.
A lot of the same people that raise flags on this board regarding PSU would be very shocked to learn what some Hawkeye legends and National Champions got for scholarships. proven commodities that make ncaa finals at sub 40%.
it happens at every program. you don't know what you think you know regarding scholarship allocations and recruiting.
And this ladies and gentlemen is how you pour gasoline onto an already raging dumpster fire of a thread!!
Take notes, the wrestling brains class is in session.
The offseason chaos has officially begun!
Comparing a long term fundraising for a facilities project to people bank rolling the club is not apples and apples.
" despite constant moaning and groaning that psu wins only because of recruiting, several programs are neck and neck with them and many have brought in more Top 100's overall. the discrepancy isn't what you think it is."
You have used the number of top 100's a few times now. It is a little intellectually disingenuous. Some organization broke down the recruiting ranking/finalist for a 5 year period.
Top 20 finalists 61
Bottom 50/Unranked 22
If you are trying to claim that a program getting 3-4 bottom 50 ranked guys equates to the PSU 1-2 top 10 guys each year then we will agree to disagree.
-You ARE playing the Willie game.
-The Sig line is to remind you of how you play on both sides of the fence to fit your daily narrative.
-You are here for the bad discussions mostly.
-I just plain don't like you
-also, I never said I was in the military..
"Blown out of proportion" Good God!
You saw the word "transfer" and ran with it like the cunning, dastardly little man you are.
-How could you possibly not understand what I meant when I talked about the 125# weight at PSU since Mega graduated?
What a weasel
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"No evidence of cheating"
that depends on what you consider "evidence"...and that is the grey zone. I see plenty of evidence.
that depends on what you consider "evidence"...and that is the grey zone. I see plenty of evidence.
I agree with everything except your nonchalant view of PSU recruiting. It is SOO off to the point that you appear to INTENTIONALLY shift the narrative.
1.) PSU recruits extreme quality over quantity.
2.)PSU recruits almost solely on NEEDS and almost always gets who they are recruiting.
3.)PSU recruits and STARTS more top 10 recruits by a LARGE margin.
I don’t see how the above can be ignored.
125:Howard #7 2020 Steen was as high as 12 now 29 2021
133:RBY #12 2018
141:Lee #9 2017
149:Bartlett #4 2020 Van Ness #4 2021
157: Berge before injury retirement #6 2017
165:Lee #20 2018 Facundo #2 2021
174:Starocci #9 2019
184:Brooks #2 2018
197:Beard #11 Dean transfer Finalsit
285:Kerkvliet #1 2019
So, barring uncontrollable injuries, their starting lineup next year could be
#7 overall
12 overall
9 overall
4 overall
6 overall with Berge or 4 if Van Ness
2 overall
9 overall
2 overall
11 overall or a transfer finalist
1 overall
In what WORLD does ANY other school compare in recruiting to that? I mean it isn’t even FRICKING ClOSE!!!!!
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This 100%. Comparing schools or judging class rankings by # of top 100 recruits is completely backwards. This isn't football.
it sounds as if you guys are saying psu recruits better, thus they are cheating.
Is that your point?
Is that your point?
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You do realize that the Penn State Wrestling Club is just a fan club for us old guys, right? We pay yearly dues, and for that we get benefits like reduced travel costs to most duals, B10’s and nationals. We have luncheons before duals, help with the awards banquet, etc.. Any money left over after the season gets donated to The University.
Based on that description, sounds like Penn State Wrestling Club is similar to our HAWK Klub
How many times have I straightforward told you I don’t believe they cheat? Hell, I just said I agreed with everything you said, except your view of their recruiting.
To be clear, PSU is the Apex Predator. Carl and PSU are a match made in heaven. He brought together the perfect staff, fundraises like a boss and created a juggernaught RTC. I may not be a PSU fan, but I won’t deny what they have done is almost impossible to compete with.
I just don’t like how PSU pundits all can’t let anyone else be comparable or eve better than Sanderson or his staff in ANY category. Make no mistake, Carl is really good at every aspect, but his recruiting is what clearly sets him apart from the rest!
which would be fine if he wasn't talking out of both sides of his mouth.
Incorrect. What we are saying is how do they do it? with the result of having a top 20 P4P recruit at every weight year after year.
We also question Carl and PSU’s morals and ethics, as it pertains to recruiting, camp payments, and future salaries post graduation.
Not after Wyck comes to PSU and Majors him AGAIN
Wasn’t your head coach the guy who lost his senior year eligibility in high school for taking part in a gang bang? Gable recruited him anyway...but hey you guys were winning back then, and a win is a win. And love the Bael stuff. My friends at VATech think that’s hilarious.
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