*****Official Cubs 2020 thread*****

LuteHawk

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The feeling among Theo Epstein and Tom Ricketts
is that David Ross personifies the focus that the
Chicago Cubs need for its players.
 
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dgordo

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The feeling among Theo Epstein and Tom Ricketts
is that David Ross personifies the focus that the
Chicago Cubs need for its players.
they feel the players need someone more contemporary to the players.

sounds like an excuse to me for the lack of player development.
 
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dgordo

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They say mark loretta is in play too but I don’t like that since he was part of this years failure.
 

MuscoHawk

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This team worships Ross, especially Rizzo, who is the undisputed leader of the team. They will listen to him. This should have been done earlier. The season might not have been lost.

Now let’s move on to...

—Legit leadoff man, preferably a 2B

—Resign Castellanos if possible

—LOTS of bullpen help

—Top of the rotation SP, looking at you Gerrit Cole
 

BioHawk

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Castellanos wants to play in Chicago and his focus can be a benefit for the team. Plus, one of the core is going to have to go. They Cubs need young players/prospects/draft picks. My money is on Schwarber going (and I will be very sad by this) but after the way he finished the season there is a lot of value for him and the Cubs have a splurge of outfielders. They have to get younger and they have to develop more pitching.

On the flip side, several of the young guys they brought up for relief pitching have done very well, so maybe it's not completely bare there.
 

lucas80

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they feel the players need someone more contemporary to the players.

sounds like an excuse to me for the lack of player development.
I have been the guy disputing how bad the system is. I was wrong. It’s abysmal. Just a few random high ceiling guys. No drafting or developmental master plan as far as I can see.
 

BioHawk

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I expect Kimbrel to go in for Tommy John surgery shortly after the last game of the season. He already had his two pre-Tommy John stints on the IL.
 

BioHawk

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hes going to get 5/110. That’s not in the cubs budget.
Could be if other parts get moved. They have some money coming off the books but they need to invest a lot if they want to be better next year. They're a .500 ballclub at best next year with no changes.
 
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win1forthe

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The manager will be Ross. Hoerner will be starting. They really won’t have the resources to sign a premier free agent. Like it or not, Kimbrel will be back and if he’s not, the money owed to him will still impact the team.

This is a flawed organization created by Theo and Jed, I highly doubt they will be able to correct all, or even half, of what needs to be fixed. They have not been very good at their job. Yet Theo will come out and accept responsibility and everyone will fawn over his transparency. He created this mess.
 
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Hime_Peterson

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Question for all of you:

If the Cubs do not win the NL Central in 2020, should Theo Epstein be relieved of his duties?

It's a resounding "Yes" for me.
 

bdg8

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I know getting rid of several players are not an option
But hypothetically what players would you want to build around
For me Javy and Castellanos are all that jump out. If Yu pitches like he did in second half then him as well

Not sure how I feel on rizzo and kris
 

MitchLL

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The manager will be Ross. Hoerner will be starting. They really won’t have the resources to sign a premier free agent. Like it or not, Kimbrel will be back and if he’s not, the money owed to him will still impact the team.

This is a flawed organization created by Theo and Jed, I highly doubt they will be able to correct all, or even half, of what needs to be fixed. They have not been very good at their job. Yet Theo will come out and accept responsibility and everyone will fawn over his transparency. He created this mess.
Someone needs to answer you with some FanGraph stats that prove just how clever Epstein has been with constructing this team.

You can find a few bullpen arms on the cheap nearly any day of the week.
 

MuscoHawk

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I know getting rid of several players are not an option
But hypothetically what players would you want to build around
For me Javy and Castellanos are all that jump out. If Yu pitches like he did in second half then him as well

Not sure how I feel on rizzo and kris
Hendricks? Contreras?

You really wouldn’t want Rizzo or Bryant?
 

bdg8

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Hendricks? Contreras?

You really wouldn’t want Rizzo or Bryant?
I am more thinking of the future contract that Bryant will seek. I can’t recall Rizzo’s contract but I thought it was not outlandish.

But at some point the Cubs will have to make some decisions in regarding salary. I mean in the next few years they won’t be able to afford all of them, will they?
 

claykenny

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Someone needs to answer you with some FanGraph stats that prove just how clever Epstein has been with constructing this team.

You can find a few bullpen arms on the cheap nearly any day of the week.
Yes and no. If you could with any regularity and reliability, teams wouldn't be paying so much for closers and high-end relievers. Most of the "cheap" bullpen arms are guys who failed as starters and can be had at affordable rates in their arbitration years or early free agency as bullpen pitchers. Then, someone overpays for them in free agency.

The Yankees bullpen is almost exclusively guys they acquired from someone else at a premium.

Chapman: $15 million (through 2021)
Britton: $13 million (through 2021/2022)
Ottavino: $9 million (through 2021)
Betances: $7.5 million (free agent in 2020)
Kahnle: $1.8 million (arbitration eligible in 2020)
Green: $0.6 million (arbitration eligible in 2020)
Cessa: $0.6 million (not arbitration eligible)
Cortes: $0.6 million
Holder: $0.6 million
Hale: $0.6 million (arbitration eligible in 2020)

Over $50 million spent for that nasty Yankees bullpen. Nearly the entire cost of the Tampa Rays. They have the #2, #7, #17, and #34 highest paid relievers in baseball on the basis of annual average salary. None of those guys making <$1 million per year (with the exception of Green, who has had a down year) scare anyone.

The problem with paying relief pitchers is volatility. The Yankees have a lot of money tied up in a bullpen on the wrong side of 30. They are currently saving some money due to young position players under team control. It will be interesting to see how they manage that problem going forward.

This is especially going to be true with Judge and Sanchez going into their first years of arbitration in 2020 and Torres in 2021. And, of course, the potential of that Stanton contract becoming an albatross if 2017 proves to be an anomaly.
 

claykenny

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I am more thinking of the future contract that Bryant will seek. I can’t recall Rizzo’s contract but I thought it was not outlandish.

But at some point the Cubs will have to make some decisions in regarding salary. I mean in the next few years they won’t be able to afford all of them, will they?
Rizzo is signed through 2021 and will be (as of today) the 11th highest paid 1B in the MLB in 2020. I would seriously doubt he gets moved, especially given his leadership and clubhouse presence in addition to his relative affordability.

Bryant still has two more arbitration years. Depending on how things go in 2020, I could see him getting moved for high-end prospects.

Baez still has two more arbitration years. Seriously doubt he goes anywhere, unless the Cubs absolutely tank in 2020.

Contreras is probably the most likely to get traded. Caratini won't be arbitration eligible until 2021 and is two years younger. They also have Amaya coming along in the next few years.
 

MuscoHawk

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With Bryant on contract for 2 years, he would bring back a massive haul in a trade. If he won’t extend (Boras), a trade has to be considered.
 
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claykenny

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Best case for 2020 would be Nico Hoerner progression and slotting him at the top of the order at 2B. Something between 2018 and 2019 D.J. LeMaheiu would be outstanding. Would kill two birds with one stone.

Also getting second half Schwarber and Darvish for a full season in 2020, which isn't crazy looking at underlying metrics. Getting at least stable production from Lester, Quintana, and Hendricks. Having Kimbrel return to form. Finding 3-4 solid bullpen arms on the cheap, preferably out of the current batch of team control guys currently on the roster.

It would also be great to somehow shed some of Heyward's salary to keep Castellanos and sign Cole, but that's not happening.
 

33hawkfan

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The manager will be Ross. Hoerner will be starting. They really won’t have the resources to sign a premier free agent. Like it or not, Kimbrel will be back and if he’s not, the money owed to him will still impact the team.

This is a flawed organization created by Theo and Jed, I highly doubt they will be able to correct all, or even half, of what needs to be fixed. They have not been very good at their job. Yet Theo will come out and accept responsibility and everyone will fawn over his transparency. He created this mess.
I’m not sold on Hoerner being ready yet, he’s been great filling in but he’s a pretty low ceiling guy and there’s a lot of guys who come up and have success initially before pitchers get a book on them.
 
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MuscoHawk

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With Bryant on contract for 2 years, he would bring back a massive haul in a trade. If he won’t extend (Boras), a trade has to be considered.
Welp.

Hopefully that wasn’t as bad as it looked because it sure looked like he destroyed his ankle and/or knee.
 
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win1forthe

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I’m not sold on Hoerner being ready yet, he’s been great filling in but he’s a pretty low ceiling guy and there’s a lot of guys who come up and have success initially before pitchers get a book on them.
Just sharing what I’ve heard in the radio from Cubs’ reporters several times, that Hoerner will be a starter next year. Plus, consistency would be good, it’s been a turnstile at 2B this year.
 

lucas80

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I don't even know what thread to put this in. 2019 or 2020? I listened to Hit and Run on the way home from Wisconsin today and at least half of it was reminding people that the Cardinals have a highly productive farm system, and the Cubs don't.
That has to be priority #1, even though the rewards will take years to recoup. Theo has to make the right moves to revamp the farm system.
 

MuscoHawk

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That has to be priority #1, even though the rewards will take years to recoup. Theo has to make the right moves to revamp the farm system.
For this to happen, don’t you need to replace everyone in player scouting/development?

Their draft picks have been HORRIBLE.

Pitchers? 2... Cease and Alzolay. That’s it.

1st round picks? Almora, Happ, Schwarber... all looking like busts. Schwarber looks like he’s got a shot to become something. Bryant basically fell into their lap — good job not screwing that up.

Baez and Contreras are JIM HENDRY guys!
 

H4wkfan4life

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very well, so maybe it's not completely bare there.[/QUOTE]
The manager will be Ross. Hoerner will be starting. They really won’t have the resources to sign a premier free agent. Like it or not, Kimbrel will be back and if he’s not, the money owed to him will still impact the team.

This is a flawed organization created by Theo and Jed, I highly doubt they will be able to correct all, or even half, of what needs to be fixed. They have not been very good at their job. Yet Theo will come out and accept responsibility and everyone will fawn over his transparency. He created this mess.
They def deserve their share of blame, but I'll be happy to see what this team can do without maddumb!
 

lucas80

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I am more thinking of the future contract that Bryant will seek. I can’t recall Rizzo’s contract but I thought it was not outlandish.

But at some point the Cubs will have to make some decisions in regarding salary. I mean in the next few years they won’t be able to afford all of them, will they?
No, they can't keep them all. Russell has made the decision easy, though. He's gone. I know some people are deeply wedded to him, but I would trade Schwarber. He would get a decent return, and unless the DH is coming to the National League, the Cubs need to get better at defense. I fully believe that Hoerner will start the season at 2B or CF. I would not be surprised to see Contreras or Bryant in LF.
I would not be shocked to see Quintana traded if the organization thinks that they can fill two rotation spots with Alzolay and someone acquired via trade for KS.
 
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lucas80

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For this to happen, don’t you need to replace everyone in player scouting/development?

Their draft picks have been HORRIBLE.

Pitchers? 2... Cease and Alzolay. That’s it.

1st round picks? Almora, Happ, Schwarber... all looking like busts. Schwarber looks like he’s got a shot to become something. Bryant basically fell into their lap — good job not screwing that up.

Baez and Contreras are JIM HENDRY guys!
You have to replace McLeod, and they have put that into motion. They need to decide what they are going to prioritize in the draft. That is a huge decision. Not everyone has to go, though. You just have to determine what your scouts are going to be looking for.
 

BioHawk

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Question for all of you:

If the Cubs do not win the NL Central in 2020, should Theo Epstein be relieved of his duties?

It's a resounding "Yes" for me.
Then you might as well get rid of him now. How can they possibly rebuild their entire pitching staff this offseason? They need 3 starters and lots of bullpen pitching. Refusing to develop any pitching is catching up with them. But, they can never take 2016 away.