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Officiating…can anything be done?

LarryMullenJr.

LarryMullenJr.

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Dec 7, 2011
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They’re just universally poor in the women’s game. Some are downright horrible. And this isn’t an “they’re all against Iowa” thing—they’re plain bad.
That said, can it be fixed? Add a 4th? Pay more? Allow challenges? Shut up and live with it? I give the players and coaches some credit for holding it together and not criticizing (I get the fines/suspension aspect) cuz it absolutely has an effect on some games.
 
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LarryMullenJr. said:
They’re just universally poor in the women’s game. Some are downright horrible. And this isn’t an “they’re all against Iowa” thing—they’re plain bad.
That said, can it be fixed? Add a 4th? Pay more? Allow challenges? Shut up and live with it? I give the players and coaches some credit for holding it together and not criticizing (I get the fines/suspension aspect) cuz it absolutely has an effect on some games.
Click to expand...

Well, based on the foul situation, if it had been called properly, it’s Iowa at the line (I believe ) so yes, it most assuredly affected the game.

And I’m a notorious anti-complaining about the officials kind of guy, but it has gotten worse and worse and worse by the year, in every damn sport and yes, you are correct women’s basketball is the worst of the worst!
 
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how you miss this I have no idea.

GkgGh9kXoAAATEM
 
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LarryMullenJr. said:
They’re just universally poor in the women’s game. Some are downright horrible. And this isn’t an “they’re all against Iowa” thing—they’re plain bad.
That said, can it be fixed? Add a 4th? Pay more? Allow challenges? Shut up and live with it? I give the players and coaches some credit for holding it together and not criticizing (I get the fines/suspension aspect) cuz it absolutely has an effect on some games.
Click to expand...
When a team is up by 12 and all of a sudden, the refs get involved by calling 5 fouls against the team with the 12-point lead and 0 against the team that's ranked high that's behind, something is up. And I'm beginning to think it's not just incompetency by the refs. I've seen it in other games not just Iowa's. I don't know if it's for viewership or betting or what.
 
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The officiating ain't gonna improve. I've been waiting decades for that, so yes, you HAVE to have a challenge system, something like they have in the pro game. Iowa could have challenged all kinds of calls, especially in that bogus third quarter, not to mention the incredible game-deciding call with 3.8 seconds to go.

The girl sticks her leg out like THAT, trips Lucy, and UCLA wins. Bullshit.

BTW: Do you think that call happens against LSU or South Carolina? LOL
 
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Would you want to be a ref? There is a huge ref shortage because no one wants to subject themselves to asinine behavior. Huge demand but low supply. I think a lot of the bad officiating is due to lack of experience and getting games under their belt.
 
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Hawkaholic18 said:
Would you want to be a ref? There is a huge ref shortage because no one wants to subject themselves to asinine behavior. Huge demand but low supply. I think a lot of the bad officiating is due to lack of experience and getting games under their belt.
Click to expand...
"Asinine behavior?" You mean by the refs . . . Absolutely. If you can't see a big girl stick her leg a couple feet outside her frame and trip an opposing player, that's asinine, and you have no business in the profession. I didn't notice any especially unusual crowd behavior yesterday, so I really don't know what you're talking about. A lot of jobs are hard. That doesn't mean people who are incompetent at them should keep those jobs.

The refs do get paid, you know. They're not parent volunteers. Players and coaches are publicly criticized, ostracized, and belittled every day. Officials? Hell, they don't even have to face the media after the game the way 18-22-year-old college players do. Players are expected to explain why they did this or didn't do that, why they lost or how they won. Officials? Zilch. They never have to explain how the calls suddenly went all for UCLA after Iowa built it's 12-point lead. They don't have to explain how they failed to call the tripping foul at the end that, literally, gave the game to UCLA. They just take their paycheck and head off to the next game.

WAAAAY back around 1970, Iowa head coach Ralph Miller suggested basketball might be better off if the officials--maybe two of them--were taken off the floor and perched above it, somewhat like tennis officials. Miller said the game was too fast, and officials couldn't keep up and were often out of position and often too close to the action to make correct calls. I thought it made sense then, and I think it makes sense now, but I'm unaware that anyone has ever tried it. Why the hell not? How could it possibly be worse? Let's have two officials on the floor and two on perches, maybe one on each side of the floor around the 3-point line. Try it in preseason exhibition games. Maybe try it in the NIT.

But at any rate, a challenge system similar to the pros MUST come to college basketball. It's just not fair and barely watchable as it is. And yesterday, incompetence of the refs cost Iowa a win over #3 UCLA, plain and simple.
 
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Beattheohiostate said:
The officiating ain't gonna improve. I've been waiting decades for that, so yes, you HAVE to have a challenge system, something like they have in the pro game. Iowa could have challenged all kinds of calls, especially in that bogus third quarter, not to mention the incredible game-deciding call with 3.8 seconds to go.

The girl sticks her leg out like THAT, trips Lucy, and UCLA wins. Bullshit.

BTW: Do you think that call happens against LSU or South Carolina? LOL
Click to expand...

Meh…. every team has been the beneficiary of and also the goat of piss poor calls. It does sometimes seem like it favors the higher profile team, but that would take a super long study by somebody with more resources, and smarter than me.

So instead, I’ll tell you a story, that relates to my feelings about officiating. As I’ve mentioned, I’ve always thought the bitching and wailing and gnashing of teeth about officiating had been overdone.

Then while raising my six kids who all played various levels of soccer softball volleyball and basketball all @ a fairly high AAU level and of course high school. It clearly became front and center & I maintained my belief for the most part and even realized sitting in the stands, throwing a fit just puts a target on you and/or your kid.

I also read a pretty big article in I believe the Chicago tribune about that time, say 10 years ago, about how hard it was to find officials anymore at all levels and much of it was because of the vitriol and the violence officials had begun to face.

And I doubled down on my belief that fans were generally out of line for the most part…

With all that said, either because of the fact, that “qualified people” don’t want to do the job or just flat incompetence or not truly giving a shit. It has gotten excruciatingly bad at every level and in literally every single sport. Maybe the exception being baseball as I believe their review system and their general competence at least at the highest level is improving.

But the other sports man, I don’t believe I’m exaggerating when I say I think the missed calls, Poor calls, questionable calls, and just out and out blatantly biased calls have reached a level. I don’t ever remember seeing in my 54 years of age.

And it really has begun to change the game, at least in the respect of continuity and momentum, if nothing else.

And in many cases, I believe a pretty simple basic review system would quickly and efficiently improve the game. For instance, under two minutes a call like the one yesterday almost exclusively should’ve called into question what happened? Whistle blown, no call made, hey what happened that this girl seemingly dove into the girl she was defending? After reviewing you make a call.

I don’t believe it’s necessary in the middle of the game because honestly, we do have to live with the human element for the most part. And if you can’t overcome some poor calls throughout the game, then really, your just aren’t good enough. But in a close game at these crucial moments….you have to get it right…

Just my 3 & a half cents 🤷‍♂️
 
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Hawkaholic18 said:
Would you want to be a ref? There is a huge ref shortage because no one wants to subject themselves to asinine behavior. Huge demand but low supply. I think a lot of the bad officiating is due to lack of experience and getting games under their belt.
Click to expand...

No, actually, I wouldn’t 🤷‍♂️
 
Hawkaholic18 said:
Would you want to be a ref? There is a huge ref shortage because no one wants to subject themselves to asinine behavior. Huge demand but low supply. I think a lot of the bad officiating is due to lack of experience and getting games under their belt.
Click to expand...
I have done it and yes, you get idiots everywhere and in everything. I'd still be doing it other than for old age and bad knees.
I'm sure I made mistakes but you do the best you can and tune out the idiots. I'm pretty confident that a number of folks I worked with would do a far better job than too many that we all see doing the gals' games.
 
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Beattheohiostate said:
"Asinine behavior?" You mean by the refs . . . Absolutely. If you can't see a big girl stick her leg a couple feet outside her frame and trip an opposing player, that's asinine, and you have no business in the profession. I didn't notice any especially unusual crowd behavior yesterday, so I really don't know what you're talking about. A lot of jobs are hard. That doesn't mean people who are incompetent at them should keep those jobs.

The refs do get paid, you know. They're not parent volunteers. Players and coaches are publicly criticized, ostracized, and belittled every day. Officials? Hell, they don't even have to face the media after the game the way 18-22-year-old college players do. Players are expected to explain why they did this or didn't do that, why they lost or how they won. Officials? Zilch. They never have to explain how the calls suddenly went all for UCLA after Iowa built it's 12-point lead. They don't have to explain how they failed to call the tripping foul at the end that, literally, gave the game to UCLA. They just take their paycheck and head off to the next game.

WAAAAY back around 1970, Iowa head coach Ralph Miller suggested basketball might be better off if the officials--maybe two of them--were taken off the floor and perched above it, somewhat like tennis officials. Miller said the game was too fast, and officials couldn't keep up and were often out of position and often too close to the action to make correct calls. I thought it made sense then, and I think it makes sense now, but I'm unaware that anyone has ever tried it. Why the hell not? How could it possibly be worse? Let's have two officials on the floor and two on perches, maybe one on each side of the floor around the 3-point line. Try it in preseason exhibition games. Maybe try it in the NIT.

But at any rate, a challenge system similar to the pros MUST come to college basketball. It's just not fair and barely watchable as it is. And yesterday, incompetence of the refs cost Iowa a win over #3 UCLA, plain and simple.
Click to expand...
He's not referring to yesterday my man, but when you have asinine behavior in little league, AAU, high school, etc it leads to people not wanting to ref anymore. That trickles up to the college and pro ranks when you have fewer and fewer getting started at the lower levels and working their way up.
 
Beattheohiostate said:
The officiating ain't gonna improve. I've been waiting decades for that, so yes, you HAVE to have a challenge system, something like they have in the pro game. Iowa could have challenged all kinds of calls, especially in that bogus third quarter, not to mention the incredible game-deciding call with 3.8 seconds to go.

The girl sticks her leg out like THAT, trips Lucy, and UCLA wins. Bullshit.

BTW: Do you think that call happens against LSU or South Carolina? LOL
Click to expand...
It happened to Uconn against us last year, so yes. It's not a conspiracy. The ref blew the call. It sucks. Would have liked to see what we could have done even in OT w/Rice fouling out.
 
Beattheohiostate said:
"Asinine behavior?" You mean by the refs . . . Absolutely. If you can't see a big girl stick her leg a couple feet outside her frame and trip an opposing player, that's asinine, and you have no business in the profession. I didn't notice any especially unusual crowd behavior yesterday, so I really don't know what you're talking about. A lot of jobs are hard. That doesn't mean people who are incompetent at them should keep those jobs.

The refs do get paid, you know. They're not parent volunteers. Players and coaches are publicly criticized, ostracized, and belittled every day. Officials? Hell, they don't even have to face the media after the game the way 18-22-year-old college players do. Players are expected to explain why they did this or didn't do that, why they lost or how they won. Officials? Zilch. They never have to explain how the calls suddenly went all for UCLA after Iowa built it's 12-point lead. They don't have to explain how they failed to call the tripping foul at the end that, literally, gave the game to UCLA. They just take their paycheck and head off to the next game.

WAAAAY back around 1970, Iowa head coach Ralph Miller suggested basketball might be better off if the officials--maybe two of them--were taken off the floor and perched above it, somewhat like tennis officials. Miller said the game was too fast, and officials couldn't keep up and were often out of position and often too close to the action to make correct calls. I thought it made sense then, and I think it makes sense now, but I'm unaware that anyone has ever tried it. Why the hell not? How could it possibly be worse? Let's have two officials on the floor and two on perches, maybe one on each side of the floor around the 3-point line. Try it in preseason exhibition games. Maybe try it in the NIT.

But at any rate, a challenge system similar to the pros MUST come to college basketball. It's just not fair and barely watchable as it is. And yesterday, incompetence of the refs cost Iowa a win over #3 UCLA, plain and simple.
Click to expand...
Wow, you really missed my point. I didn't mention anything about yesterday's game or the crowd. The main point was- many people are not choosing to officiate because of crowd behavior. THERE IS A REF SHORTAGE IN ALL KIDS SPORTS BECAUSE NO ONE WANTS TO BE SUBJECTED TO TODAYS CROWDS AND ITS GETTING WORSE, HENCE NOT ENOUGH EXPERIENCE WHEN THEY MOVE UP THE RANKS. Also, plain and simple- the refs did not cost us yesterday's game. The calls didn't help but the shot selection did us in, not to mention blowing a big lead (See Jan's press conference).
 
The officials for the game were:
  • Felicia Grinter
  • Julie Krommenhoek
  • Michael McConnell

Has any women's official gotten well known because of their calls or antics? Example: TV Teddy (Ted Valentine). There are so many more examples on the men's side, of course.

Whatever happened to the officials for the 2023 National Championship game? They were awful but I couldn't tell you their names. I think they were all female, though LOL
 
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Hawkaholic18 said:
Wow, you really missed my point. I didn't mention anything about yesterday's game or the crowd. The main point was- many people are not choosing to officiate because of crowd behavior. THERE IS A REF SHORTAGE IN ALL KIDS SPORTS BECAUSE NO ONE WANTS TO BE SUBJECTED TO TODAYS CROWDS AND ITS GETTING WORSE, HENCE NOT ENOUGH EXPERIENCE WHEN THEY MOVE UP THE RANKS. Also, plain and simple- the refs did not cost us yesterday's game. The calls didn't help but the shot selection did us in, not to mention blowing a big lead (See Jan's press conference).
Click to expand...
No matter how the rest of the game played out that 1 call at the end could have very well cost Iowa the game. The correct call was a foul on the screener, Iowa ball, tied game. Does Iowa score, who knows, but they should have had the opportunity. Tired of people with the “ refs didn’t cost us the game”. They do win or lose games by what they call. See it often. They’re paid well, the least they can do is call the rule book.
 
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Franisdaman said:
The officials for the game were:
  • Felicia Grinter
  • Julie Krommenhoek
  • Michael McConnell

Has any women's official gotten well known because of their calls or antics? Example: TV Teddy (Ted Valentine). There are so many more examples on the men's side, of course.

Whatever happened to the officials for the 2023 National Championship game? They were awful but I couldn't tell you their names. I think they were all female, though LOL
Click to expand...
Michael McConnell he's downright terrible and bias against Iowa. Why do we keep getting this idiot? We should request that he not officiate an Iowa women's basketball game again, probably would get it but it'll make them look at his work and how bad it is.
 
Felicia was bad. Calling crap from 20 ft away while the ref closest to the play didn’t blow a whistle. Wish they’d go to assigned areas to officiate. Concentrate on your area and leave the other areas to the refs assigned to them.
 
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