One Civil War was enough — don't risk another to erase history
- Thread starter The Tradition
- Start date
Believe me, I get what you're saying. I understand how ANYONE would believe that the issues from the Civil War are "simple." I don't agree that they are simple, personally, because I have seen, and been exposed to, so much from all sides involved that I know it's not that simple, overall, to me. But, as I've said, I am all for removing these statues because they are rallying points for white supremacists. We don't need that kind of ignorance if we want to be a highly-evolved, civilized society. History cannot be erased. I learned more about history out of school than I ever did in school. And, "history" is also a subjective thing. That's a challenge for most people to ever accept.
I am ambivilent about the statues. They should have been banned initially and now they stand 150 years later. Let the local governments erase them as they will. There is too much culture wrapped up in it for us Yankees to dictate the south's removal of the statues.
This is in Iowa. Do you want to remove it?
http://www.iowacivilwarmonuments.com/cgi-bin/gaarddetails.pl?1210173217~2
I'm still ambivilent. It is up to the municiplaity. I bet if it was eradicated nothing would change.
Same stance. I am also in the camp of leave guns alone and stop sending people away from liberals camp. Statues are so far on my give an eff about list.
It doesn't.
As he has no defense for his position, he'll keep repeating it ad nauseum, though.
I love stopping to read historical markers and plaques and yes, observing statues. Drives my wife (no pics) nuts. It is sad to me that people want to tear them down.
If it becomes the next KKK rallying point, yes.
If it's mostly ignored by the fascists, then it's fine where it is.
Clue for you: The only reason those people are marching around the statues is because activists are demanding that they be torn down. Get your cause and effect straight.
I reckoned the statue was voted to be removed by Charlottesville but racists from Michigan and further moved in to rally around it? Correct me if I am wrong.
Not wrong. This is a completely predictable reaction. Those statues have been standing for more than 100 years in many cases. It's absolutely ridiculous, and goes to the point of the column in the original post. There would have been no Alt-Right rally if people weren't trying to tear down the statue that has been standing with zero controversy until Dylan Roof came along.
The activists are potentially giving Dylan Roof what he said he wanted to start: A race war.
The activists are potentially giving Dylan Roof what he said he wanted to start: A race war.
Because Michigan Nazis should ALWAYS have the ability to dictate what other local towns decide to do with their locally funded statues, bro!
Only thing WORSE than Michigan Nazis is Illinois Nazis....
If the alt right doesn't come around the statue moves without interest. Of that there is no doubt.
I can't support the alt right though being that they are literal trash.
Site removed
Go hang with those racists pedos for a week and report back.
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I found through research that Dubuque has a very racist past. You can still feel it there too.
I do not associate myself with them. I am a Libertarian at heart, and my values are in direct conflict with white supremacist/nationalist values.
But my values are very much in line with the "heritage, not hate" and freedom of speech and expression part of this issue.
Our differences mostly are between your laissez faire and my socialism.
Can you do me a favor and edit out the site I mentioned. Pretty please
I used to try and get on-board with "Heritage Not Hate" crowd until I realized that most of those people were flat-out racists. I was a member of the SCV. They were a bunch of white guys who clung to the "Lost Cause" bullshit. They didn't hate black people on an individual basis, but they were empowering and commemorating a supremacist society. I was out of there.
The culture changes, man. Everything is always changing. When I was a little boy in the 1970's, I saw the places I lived (NC, VA, SC) and saw Rebel Flags and they were all just benign symbols. But, I was a white kid. I had no understanding of what it meant, potentially, to black kids. Once I finally realized that, well into adulthood, my attitude changed drastically. I felt sort of ashamed of my ignorance. So, while I empathize with people who are kids of the Baby Boomers, I still know that we're going through a phase where that Old South stuff is unpopular, and it's unpopular for a very good reason. It may shift to a more benign, nostalgic perspective in another 50 years.
Wow, this one is impressive.
http://www.iowacivilwarmonuments.com/cgi-bin/gaarddetails.pl?1212090310~2
http://www.iowacivilwarmonuments.com/cgi-bin/gaarddetails.pl?1212090310~2
It is simply wrong to destroy historical monuments without some sort of safety or development reason.
They're only "historical" if you revel in the Jim Crow era laws and affiliated outright racism and bigotry.
You can "honor the South" with monuments which don't glorify Civil War traitors.
Some boys take a beautiful statue
And hide it away from the rest of the world
I want to be the one to walk in the sun
Oh slavers they wanna have fun
Oh traitors just wanna have
And hide it away from the rest of the world
I want to be the one to walk in the sun
Oh slavers they wanna have fun
Oh traitors just wanna have
Well, they will remove them safely, I'm sure. They'll get professionals to dismantle them.
I'm not sure what you mean by development reason. If these communities, states, cities, whatever, decide that it's no longer something they want, then why do you care? If there's no statue of General Lee on Monument Ave in Richmond anymore, that doesn't change that he was a general in the Confederate Army.
I will offer a sort of caveat about Richmond and the general vicinity there. My family is there. I lived there as a young child and came back to visit often, and still do. My family is buried in Blandford Cemetery in Petersburg, VA. Richmond, VA, and the surrounding counties, are one gigantic Civil War battlefield. I don't want the battlefield memorials to be taken down. I don't want the Confederate headstones in the cemeteries removed. Those men deserve a headstone. They gave their life. But, back to Richmond; Richmond is virtually a giant Civil War museum. Petersburg is the same. City Point, Prince George country, Chesterfield County, Dinwiddie county. Then, to the east on the James River peninsula, it's one battlefield after another. There's a monument to where the Union soldiers lost 7,000 men in about 30 minutes at Cold Harbor. So, in some ways, I think because of the geography, there's an exception. I don't think Richmond will be removing the statues on Monument Avenue. But, if they do, they do. I'll remember they were there my whole life. But, the battlefields are a different story. To me, that would be like bulldozing Auschwitz. I don't want Gettysburg battlefield destroyed anymore than I want to see Shiloh destroyed.
I do believe that Northerners have a slight disconnect from Southerners because 95% of the war took place in our present-day home area. In southeastern VA, it's EVERYWHERE! But, you can also drive around that whole area and never see the first Rebel Flag flying anywhere.
Or, at least suggest the threat of it possibly happening.
He refuses to be "Reconstructed."
I see Trad and I think of this:
I grew up in Jacksonville when Lynyrd Skynyrd was popular and virtually everyone had a Skynyrd t-shirt with rebel flags on it. Even the black guys!
They're actually a very accomplished bluegrass band. Thanks for posting.
Here's another.
Seems to me there is a whole lot of taking into account the "feelings" of only one side of the statues mean something different posit. I'm guessing the other side might feel a different way about them. Maybe there should be another war to settle it once and for all. This time no mercy for the losers?
I'm very familiar with them.
As I've tried to convey, as a direct descendant of a famous Rebel general and an average Rebel private that survived the war and lived until 1922, I get the "nostalgia" aspect. I also understand the feeling of loss. I think some of this comes from having been accepted BACK INTO the United States and how the USA has been perceived historically since then. Southerners have that sense of defeat, and it's not easy to carry that because we've also been part of "The Good Guys" through the 20th Century wars (if you wanna believe that). Southerners feel like the men that died for their "cause" deserve being remembered, too. It was tolerated for a century or more. But, because of the white supremacists taking the lead, it's not being tolerated anymore.
You have white supremacists to blame for losing these statues and memorials. No one else.
To me, you could remove every statue that glorifies war of any kind on any level and it wouldn't bother me.
You want me to respect someone's opinion that all jews should be killed and those damn ******s need to be lynched?
