OT: IHSAA Playoff 4A Pairings

[C/Seahawk]

Noticed in the Gazette this morning, there are 8 teams with a losing record that will be participating in the playoffs this year. That includes if the paper is accurate, a 1-8 Davenport North team? Seriously, if that isn't a typo, how in the world does a 1-8 team get to participate in the playoffs? You also have a matchup of teams with losing records as Prairie(4-5) plays 3-6 Iowa City West.

What an embarrassment, talk about a 'participation ribbon' mentality that has overrun our society and sports world at the youth levels. Are plans in the works to remedy this situation and get the number of playoff teams back down to 16? I certainly hope so.

 

[tigerhawk2015]

yes starting next year they go back to 16

 

[GPRHAWK]

yes starting next year they go back to 16

Good. Let's not model our high school football playoffs after Nebraska.

 

[EvilMonkeyInTheCloset]

Playoffs go down to 16 again for all classes starting next year. They announced this before the season started......

While 32 was probably too many for the other classes, there was absolutely no reason to change the system for 4A. Of course part of the issue that sparked the change in the first place was that teams with good records were getting left out. To take a current example, Fort Dodge at 7-2 is a 3-seed after dropping two straight games to Waukee and Urbandale. They'll be traveling to 2-seeded Southeast Polk who is 5-4 on the year. Had the *old format been in place, Fort Dodge would've been on the outside looking in while a 5-4 team got to keep playing (and that's just one example........................................even if that 5-4 team will probably win easily by double digits on Wednesday.)
And yes I'm aware other factors would go into teams qualifying etc etc.
(*edit- I should add that under next year's format, FD would be left out for sure...4A's old format had a point system I was never all that familiar with because I don't give much of a damn about Class Des Moines Suburbs...err I mean 4A. So I don't know if FD would've been left out under the old old format....when 4A had conferences instead of districts.)

Lastly, if they do in fact take the top two teams in each district for the 16-team format next year.....4-5 North Scott and 3-6 Iowa City West are still getting in, if this year's seedings were next year's. Just sayin.


As for your commentary about some sort of perceived 'participation' mentality infecting the sports world at the youth levels....................biggest f***ing myth in sports right now. True story. It's not affecting a g- damn thing. It only bothers you because other people say you should be bothered by it (or you're the one telling them they should be).....like a lot of other "issues" with society.

 

[C/Seahawk]

yes starting next year they go back to 16

thanks for the info, glad to hear it.

 

[hawkcub]

As I understand stand it the change back was made because of the hatred of playing 3 times in a week. So this won over money, whoops I mean more kids having the playoff experience.
They want to end by a certain date and starting was already pretty early.

If that was not the concern I would have liked a 24 team format better. You will always have extreme examples of unworthy teams making it. But 24 would help with the 2-7 teams making it with the 7-2 3rd place team still getting a shot.

 

[nu2u]

As for your commentary about some sort of perceived 'participation' mentality infecting the sports world at the youth levels....................biggest f***ing myth in sports right now. True story. It's not affecting a g- damn thing. It only bothers you because other people say you should be bothered by it (or you're the one telling them they should be).....like a lot of other "issues" with society.

True. The "participation ribbon" is largely a myth. It happens, I'm sure, but it is not widespread and it certainly not as pervasive as people seem to believe.

 

[BondHawk]

News flash - I grew up in the '80s and they gave out participation ribbons back then, so if it actually happens today (I haven't seen it yet), it's nothing new.

That being said, I never got one - only trophies and medals for this MF.

 

[MepoDawg#]

Next year player safety wins over money and teams feeling left out. 4 games in 15 days is not good under current format, starting with final regular season game then Wednesday, Monday, Friday. Someone will always be left out. My senior year we had a 3 way tie for 1st with 1 loss in district and got left out. It happens, don't like it, then more games.

 

[CJBauer]

Noticed in the Gazette this morning, there are 8 teams with a losing record that will be participating in the playoffs this year. That includes if the paper is accurate, a 1-8 Davenport North team? Seriously, if that isn't a typo, how in the world does a 1-8 team get to participate in the playoffs? You also have a matchup of teams with losing records as Prairie(4-5) plays 3-6 Iowa City West.

What an embarrassment, talk about a 'participation ribbon' mentality that has overrun our society and sports world at the youth levels. Are plans in the works to remedy this situation and get the number of playoff teams back down to 16? I certainly hope so.

Why is this such an issue for football and no one flinches when baseball and basketball let everyone into the post season pool?

My sophmore year in basketball we played in a substate game with a 4-19 record...

 

[maxstabs13]

Glad they go back to 16 team playoffs, but lets solve the other issue now... Mercy rule! Baseball has it after 4 and 5 innings. Basketball and football need to implement it.

West Des Moines Valley was up 76-0 at HALFTIME against fellow 4A opponent Des Moines Lincoln... This should have been called a game. I know they have running clock, but 50-60 point leads should be the limit for the game being over. I've seen some 70+ leads by 8-man teams and thought that was bad. This is just atrocious.

 

[IowaHawkeyeFBnBB4Life]

yes starting next year they go back to 16

Thank goodness, this four teams per district has really watered things down.

 

[PHXIowaClub]

I played high school football in 6A Indiana and every team made the playoffs. The positive is every team has something to play for throughout the regular season no matter what their record is. The negative is we ended up playing 15 total games and 6 straight weeks of sectional, regional, semi-state, and state games. It's a long season!

 

[C/Seahawk]

Why is this such an issue for football and no one flinches when baseball and basketball let everyone into the post season pool?

My sophmore year in basketball we played in a substate game with a 4-19 record...

not exactly an apples to apples comparison when you compare football to baseball...I don't think people care as much when the majority of teams qualify for district in baseball versus football due to the physicality and risk of injury with football. With 32 teams qualifying in football, you are looking at teams playing 14 games if you reach the finals...that seems like an awfully long season for 15-18 year olds. In a perfect world, making the playoffs should mean something for every sport, it shouldn't include every team, especially teams with a winning percentage hovering around the mendoza line. At least that is my opinion, others are free to disagree.

 

[NorthernHawkeye]

Participation medals are driven by mothers and feminine men (aka...democrats).

That aside, the playoff expansion was about money. Nothing more, nothing less.

 

[EvilMonkeyInTheCloset]

Participation medals are driven by mothers and feminine men (aka...democrats).

And how do you deal with them?.......

 

[eyeohuh]

Who do you guys have winning it all at 4A?

 

[LincolnHawkeye]

Participation medals are driven by mothers and feminine men (aka...democrats).

That aside, the playoff expansion was about money. Nothing more, nothing less.

Haha, I guess there have been a lot more women and "feminine men" in America the last 8 years or so....

 

[Cougar63]

I was on a 5-4 Kennedy squad that missed the playoffs in 2004/05 school year. Then CRK goes on to be a mainstay in the playoffs, not just because of this swap, and I never tasted it.

stuff sucks, bro. Wish 32 were invited back then, would've been a hoot.

 

[leiserom]

I live in Houston near Scarborough High. They are in a 4 team district. It was 5 when the UIL(high school activities association in Texas)realigned before the start of 2014 football season. Houston Jones converted to a career school and dropped all sports. Presto only 4 teams and all 4 make playoffs. Until this year when they won over a charter school they had not won a game for like 6 years. This year they are 1-8 with one more game next week against Kashmere which they will most certainly lose. Another playoff spot. Last year they played WOS from Beaumont area in the first round. It was like 50-0 when they went to a running clock. I would expect the same thing this year. On a more positive note my wifes grandnephew came here last spring as a foreign exchange student and played soccer. They made the regional semi-final(last 16 teams in Texas). The couple of stories in the newspaper about their games of course referred to the fb losing streak(although none of the soccer players played football)

 

[warriors dad]

I think eventuly the assoc. will go back to 24 with dist. winners have 1st round bye. By the way the 1-8 team got in with only 4 teams in dist. and 2 winless teams in dist. played with winner going to playoffs. My guess is they will lose by 50+

 

[mthawkeyes]

I think eventuly the assoc. will go back to 24 with dist. winners have 1st round bye. By the way the 1-8 team got in with only 4 teams in dist. and 2 winless teams in dist. played with winner going to playoffs. My guess is they will lose by 50+

I like this. The tough part about two qualifiers from each district is when there are three one-loss teams tied for first. It's pretty tough to eliminate one based solely on point spreads.

 

[MAXIMUSHAWKEYE]

Playoffs go down to 16 again for all classes starting next year. They announced this before the season started......

While 32 was probably too many for the other classes, there was absolutely no reason to change the system for 4A. Of course part of the issue that sparked the change in the first place was that teams with good records were getting left out. To take a current example, Fort Dodge at 7-2 is a 3-seed after dropping two straight games to Waukee and Urbandale. They'll be traveling to 2-seeded Southeast Polk who is 5-4 on the year. Had the *old format been in place, Fort Dodge would've been on the outside looking in while a 5-4 team got to keep playing (and that's just one example........................................even if that 5-4 team will probably win easily by double digits on Wednesday.)
And yes I'm aware other factors would go into teams qualifying etc etc.
(*edit- I should add that under next year's format, FD would be left out for sure...4A's old format had a point system I was never all that familiar with because I don't give much of a damn about Class Des Moines Suburbs...err I mean 4A. So I don't know if FD would've been left out under the old old format....when 4A had conferences instead of districts.)

Lastly, if they do in fact take the top two teams in each district for the 16-team format next year.....4-5 North Scott and 3-6 Iowa City West are still getting in, if this year's seedings were next year's. Just sayin.


As for your commentary about some sort of perceived 'participation' mentality infecting the sports world at the youth levels....................biggest f***ing myth in sports right now. True story. It's not affecting a g- damn thing. It only bothers you because other people say you should be bothered by it (or you're the one telling them they should be).....like a lot of other "issues" with society.

I don't know what the answer is to playoffs. One thing that is hard to balance are schedules. My son plays for IC WEST. They played a brutal schedule this year. If not for the district they played in, they would not make the playoffs. They had to play DM Valley,Bettendorf,CR Kennedy,CR Wash,Pleasant Valley,IC HIGH is no slouch.. There are other schools with good records that have played one or 2 decent teams. Look good on paper because of it ,but probably should not be in the playoff. Davenport North has no business in the playoffs though.. They are a bad team.

The team likely to win is DOWLING. we didn't play them,but they handled Valley. The best team West played IMO is CR Washington. Dowling Vs Wash in title.

On a side note.. Martin Oliver is a stud WR and the has been the best athlete on the field and is only a JR. I hope like heck Iowa gets him.

 

[whatsup13579er]

Why is this such an issue for football and no one flinches when baseball and basketball let everyone into the post season pool?

My sophmore year in basketball we played in a substate game with a 4-19 record...

You can play 5 baseball/basketball games in a week. Kids will be tired but its not outrageous. Playing a football game every five days really takes a toll on you.

 

[herkyhawk00]

Noticed in the Gazette this morning, there are 8 teams with a losing record that will be participating in the playoffs this year. That includes if the paper is accurate, a 1-8 Davenport North team? Seriously, if that isn't a typo, how in the world does a 1-8 team get to participate in the playoffs? You also have a matchup of teams with losing records as Prairie(4-5) plays 3-6 Iowa City West.

What an embarrassment, talk about a 'participation ribbon' mentality that has overrun our society and sports world at the youth levels. Are plans in the works to remedy this situation and get the number of playoff teams back down to 16? I certainly hope so.

It's all about the money with the IAHSAA. They are an embarrassment.

 

[Herkmeister]

Good. Let's not model our high school football playoffs after Nebraska.

Or the Girl Scouts. (No gender slam intended.)

 

[EvilMonkeyInTheCloset]

It's all about the money with the IAHSAA. They are an embarrassment.

Yeah, nuke the whole city! Nuke the whole city! Nuke the whole city!............................

 

[Capernum]

It's all about the money with the IAHSAA. They are an embarrassment.

Agreed, see their decision to deny CR Jefferson a home game at Kingston even though they earned it.

 

[grugreen]

I believe in Illinois they do 32 team brackets in each class but I think you have to have a winning record to even be an at large team. Lot more classes and teams there tho, so 32 with a winning record is not hard to get.

 

[hawkit3113]

Eastern Iowa/The Old MAC is going to dominate the state. Like we always do. Deal with it.

 

[farhawks]

going back to 16 teams is a horrible plan. I couldn't disagree more with going form 32 to 16. Yes there are some teams with losing records that get into the playoffs, but now the opposite will happen. There now will be 7-2 and even 8-1 teams that won't get into the playoffs. The excitement that is created within the school when the football team makes the playoffs is unbelievable. This isn't about a participation trophy. This is about giving teams hope and the feeling that the communities have when their team is in the playoffs.

 

[ROCKY MOUNTAIN HAWK]

Eastern Iowa/The Old MAC is going to dominate the state. Like we always do. Deal with it.

Haven't lived back there in a while but I assume Des Moines area still dominates all sports? Always used to and with the growth happening there I'd guess they are still dominating.

 

[C/Seahawk]

going back to 16 teams is a horrible plan. I couldn't disagree more with going form 32 to 16. Yes there are some teams with losing records that get into the playoffs, but now the opposite will happen. There now will be 7-2 and even 8-1 teams that won't get into the playoffs. The excitement that is created within the school when the football team makes the playoffs is unbelievable. This isn't about a participation trophy. This is about giving teams hope and the feeling that the communities have when their team is in the playoffs.

you make a fair point, communities do take pride in a successful team that makes the playoffs and it is unfortunate some teams with a winning record will get left out, but having a 1-8 team in the playoffs is equally as bad if not worse. Perhaps the answer should be taking away one regular season game to accommodate a larger playoff format. I just think 14 games is too many at the high school level for teams that advance to the finals.

 

[Menace Sockeyes]

Agreed, see their decision to deny CR Jefferson a home game at Kingston even though they earned it.

Yeah, that's a tough one. All three CRCSD schools were a top seed, so what can you do? There are a lot worse places than Cornell College. It's a straight, ten minute shot down Highway 30 and a very similar surface to Kingston, IIRC. Jefferson students, alumns, etc. will be eager and out in force as it's the first home playoff game in something like 15 years. Last year it was at Bettendorf so a lot couldn't make the trip.

 

[hawkit3113]

Haven't lived back there in a while but I assume Des Moines area still dominates all sports? Always used to and with the growth happening there I'd guess they are still dominating.

Wrong. Bettendorf runs the state in football. Followed by PV, NS, and Assumption. Who dropped down to 3A. Now its teams like Clinton and Muscatine stepping up.

 

[hawkitd]

Haven't lived back there in a while but I assume Des Moines area still dominates all sports? Always used to and with the growth happening there I'd guess they are still dominating.

Wait wut???

DSM "dominate all sports" - when did that EVER happen??

 

[cg8284]

So sounds like the issue is the districts or how they account for wins to qualify for playoffs? Is this a geographic issue and travel issue that they can't change districts to make them more even from a competitive stand point? I'm not as familiar with Iowa high school districts since they have changed over the last 5-10 years.

 

[hawkit3113]

So sounds like the issue is the districts or how they account for wins to qualify for playoffs? Is this a geographic issue and travel issue that they can't change districts to make them more even from a competitive stand point? I'm not as familiar with Iowa high school districts since they have changed over the last 5-10 years.

I miss the old Mac, but it is a way to let high schools get out and play teams they never get to play. There are on OOC games in high school. So a MAC and MVC team would only play in the playoffs. And were completely clueless to their style of play. I personally think this will help the whole state in football.

Example, if a Davenport or CR school is willing to drive all the way out to Souix City, they now can.

 

[elipse]

"Followed by PV, NS, and Assumption. Who dropped down to 3A. Now its teams like Clinton and Muscatine stepping up".

That's some funny shi* there.

 

[bagdropper]

44 4A schools...there's no fargin' way any more than 20 should be in the playoffs.