Wow. So much to learn from one game. Now Fran has 4 star top 100 recruits coming in that are not worthy of a scholarship. Our program has come so far that we now only take top 50 players.
OT - Patrick McCaferry's #22
- Thread starter El Simbolo
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It's not about the rankings it's about recruiting difference makers / impact players. We have seen the issues that Sapp, MG, Ellingson, Olgesby, etc have had at the B1G level. You are not playing against chumps in this league. Connor could have 100 stars right now and I would have posted the same concerns having seen him play live. I am going to root for him 1000% and whoever else becomes a Hawk hoping for the best but from what I saw he is not going to cut it as a player at the B1G level especially in a major role.
Take a look at the struggles of MG. Here is a top 100 kid who can dunk the basketball at his size. He is able to get by defenders at times too. That shows some athleticism and quickness yet he has struggled to finish and make winning plays. What does that tell you about how good a guy has to be?
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i watched the semifinal in person and the final on the boobtube. the only two games ive watched of Connor's.
during warmups of the semis Connor made like 12 out of 15 3's in row, so i was impressed, although his shot is not super smooth. during the game you can tell he knows what to do with the ball and plays under control, maybe too under control. definitely not elite quickness. he would probe the lane but not really attack it and would look for the open guy when he got there. he had a good game in the semis... but AJ Green was fearless, can create his own shot, pretty quick and had good handles. if he grows a few inches, he could garner some attention. i felt he was the better player between the two.
the finals. well, Connor didn't do a single thing to stand out, imo. ask yourselves this; if they didn't have names and numbers on their jerseys, would any of you that watched the game be able to pick him out and think: "wow, that kid is a B1G talent".
me neither.
during warmups of the semis Connor made like 12 out of 15 3's in row, so i was impressed, although his shot is not super smooth. during the game you can tell he knows what to do with the ball and plays under control, maybe too under control. definitely not elite quickness. he would probe the lane but not really attack it and would look for the open guy when he got there. he had a good game in the semis... but AJ Green was fearless, can create his own shot, pretty quick and had good handles. if he grows a few inches, he could garner some attention. i felt he was the better player between the two.
the finals. well, Connor didn't do a single thing to stand out, imo. ask yourselves this; if they didn't have names and numbers on their jerseys, would any of you that watched the game be able to pick him out and think: "wow, that kid is a B1G talent".
me neither.
I will take the evaluations done by Rivals over the course of a couple of years vs. someone's evaluation from one game, every time. Does Conner have deficiencies in his game? Sure. But he is also only a junior in high school with two years left to develope before he starts college. I've seen enough of his game to see the potential is there, and Rivals seems to agree with me.
When was the last time he was evaluated? Rankings change all the time. Some players develop, others don't. Most opinions seem to believe he hasn't improved much.
I was there last night. Really, nobody was impressive in the 4a game. Connor was a step slower than earlier this year. I've seen him 4 times. I watched Ricky Davis score 5 points as a junior against a good zone. That was one game.
I couldn't say, but my guess would be after the AAU season last summer. The new Spring rankings just came out and he was #90. I'm not a "rankings mean everything" guy but neither do I think you can evaluate a kid off of just one or two games. These kids are too up and down for that. To suggest, as some have, that he isn't worthy of a scholarship is asinine.
Are you a Nebraska guy? You're not allowed to talk shit about the state of Iowa if you're from Nebraska. It's somehow worse as a state than Iowa. Also, somehow, a step ahead of the Dakotas.
One has to be impressed with all the expertise expressed above. All we have to do now is get Coach Fran together with this expert group to educate him on high school talent, especially the potential to compete at the B1G level. Based on the above expertise he needs to spend, with their help, much more time outside of the boundaries of Iowa.
When the common person can see that Connor is not as good as Gesellschaft, what does that say about either the ranking system or Fran's system for evaluating talent. Who knows, maybe the offer to Connor was just to get other coaches from bothering him so he can develop.
As for the star system, is it similar to football where stars are determined by number of offers? If so, some coaches maybe offering just because of something they heard or one game at a camp. Remember , ferentz learned about Tyler sash at one of his own kids basketball game. Bottom line, it is far from an exact science at least how players are rated, but currently, Fran's recruits do seem lacking to getting the elite
As for the star system, is it similar to football where stars are determined by number of offers? If so, some coaches maybe offering just because of something they heard or one game at a camp. Remember , ferentz learned about Tyler sash at one of his own kids basketball game. Bottom line, it is far from an exact science at least how players are rated, but currently, Fran's recruits do seem lacking to getting the elite
1. Anybody with half a clue has to realize that Connor was overrated from the start based on his last name alone. I'm not saying he can't be a solid contributor at this level, but he's certainly not a national, 4-star type of talent. If his name was "Smith", there's no way that he would currently have a scholarship offer from Iowa. That is an absolute fact.
2. All of that being said, he did sprain his ankle pretty significantly in the first round game by all accounts, so I wouldn't get too worked up by anything that he did or didn't do last night (or the fact that he wasn't on the all tourney team).
He still led West High in scoring over the course of the entire season, I believe, and they are unquestionably considered to be one of the top high school basketball teams in the entire Midwest.
2. All of that being said, he did sprain his ankle pretty significantly in the first round game by all accounts, so I wouldn't get too worked up by anything that he did or didn't do last night (or the fact that he wasn't on the all tourney team).
He still led West High in scoring over the course of the entire season, I believe, and they are unquestionably considered to be one of the top high school basketball teams in the entire Midwest.
Why do you think his name caused him to be overrated? If anything, I think it tends to work the opposite way with coaches sons. See McDermott or Alford.
I am interested to know how that plays out as well.My sons attended West. We live in North LIberty and most of the best athletes come from Coralville and here. No way will West continue to be a state power in the sports they have dominated like socor,track,BB and baseball. Liberty should be a tough school if it is a 3a.But from what I understand it may be 5 years after the school opens before they have their own sports programs.
I was happy to see Greg Brunner last night get honored (still no hair). Pretty good player for Iowa in his day. And BTW, Connor has been starting pt. guard since his freshman year.
I agree with you, however; in the last 20 years how many players can you name that fits this description??? This is not a recent problem and appears to be something Fran is working on....let's not forget we were brides maids for several uber talented slashers and came up just short....let us also not forget we are tournament for 3rd straight year, last time that happened was 93, oh and will have player drafted in 3 straight drafts and pry 4 with Joknext year....when was last time that happened? I was hoping for better finish too, but boy oh boy how quickly we forget
Connor has been heavily evaluated by every service. It has nothing to do with his name. It has everything to do with playing well against elite names.
Being a junior and since the high school year is over Conner just has one more year in high school to develop into a college player.
Perhaps what people are saying about have Conner being a walk on is something similar to Doug McDermott in his last year at Creighton. Creighton's scholarships were all filled and they had a 6th year player whose college career had been riddled with injures I guess. Just before Doug's senior year the NCAA granted that player another year of eligibility so Doug's dad coach Greg McDermott paid tuition for Doug's senior year so Doug was a walk-on so they could use the scholarship for that player. Fran could easily afford it, too.
He will not be a 4 star player by the time he graduates. Hell wasn't JR Angle a top 25 kid when he was a freshman
That is not what they are saying at all. Different issue. They think he is simply unworthy of a scholarship.
He is walk on worthy at this point. Name matters, you are kidding yourself and rest of hawk fan base if you think differently
Liberty will open with some sports in fall 2017, but still working on which teams will compete. For example, football probably not due to number of players. Junior and seniors will have option to stay at West for rest of high school career so good athletes may stay at West for these opportunities with the established team
For those who didn't know, Wahlert played against Xavier without their 6-7, 235 pound starting forward, Sage Maiers, who was injured in the semiifinal game at the end of the second quarter, when he already had 9 points. He had a severe ankle sprain and missed the final, which allowed Xavier to double and triple team Pemsl. The forward who replaced Maiers just came back from a wrist fracture, and didn't score a point. That was a huge factor in the game, close as it was. As for the other Iowa recruit, I've seen IC West's Connor McC play several times, and this was not a typical game for him. He can play much more aggressively than he showed in the final game. Credit good defense and scouting by West Des Moines Valley (one of the starters was Roy Marble's son) and Cedar Rapids Xavier (which is coached by former Iowa starting guard Ryan Luersmann).
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Gessel doesn't struggle for lack of athleticism. He struggles for lack of basketball ability.
He can run and jump with anybody. What he can't do is hit a jump shot, hit a floater in the mid range or look off a defender.
Your formula for success is way to simplistic.
If a guy can play he can play. Most of Iowas problems are that they have to many guys who can't play.
If it was just as simple as athleticism you wouldn't see guys like Tyler Ulis, Denzel Valentine and George Niang on all american teams. None of them will wow you with athleticism.
Money. Not having enough volunteers to staff some of these games as it is (you will need one more person to donate their time at every school in the state for 3-4 hours on a Friday night (boys and girls games) just to run the stupid shot clock. Borderline incompetents refs as it is will also need to figure out how to deal with it, likely creating many issues in its own right.
I really don't get how people fail to understand the issues here. Probably because they've never had to actually get involved in order to administer a high school game and make sure it runs smoothly. They just watch D1 and NBA games from their couch and think it's magic that everything goes off without a hitch.
It is high time for Iowa High School boys basketball to have a 30 second shot clock. That final game was a Lickliter wet dream, if you are Valley. Well executed game plan by Valley, but not one we need to see again. The athletic ability on both sides of the 4A title game was unbelievable. The score was not indicative of how much those two teams can really ball. The theme of the entire 4A tourney this year seemed to be more about the over-controlling coaches than the athletes. Just my take. I felt bad for the athletes as it looked like they all had a governor keeping them from going too fast. It reminded me of the dark years of Iowa and how much I really do appreciate the way Fran and his staff lets his athletes play the game.
Wahlert didn't lose because they didn't have Sage Meiers. Sage Meiers is just this side of terrible, shooting 39% from the field & 21% from 3 on the season. In fact, Sage's replacement(s) - Schmitt & Kluck - combined for 9/14 from the field; including 7/10 from 3. They were better off without him. Oh, & he wasn't hurt in the semi's either...
Wahlert lost because they had no answer for the quickness & playmaking ability of Burger & Mims.
Wahlert lost because they had no answer for the quickness & playmaking ability of Burger & Mims.
Judging from the comments on this board, I think it will be a serious mistake for Connor and his brother to play for the Hawks. They will be put down mercilessly by the McCaffery haters no matter how well they play.
