POLL: If you knew that we wouldn't make the Sweet Sixteen by 2030...
- Thread starter BrewHawk
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If we win one or two regular season Big Ten Championships during that span, yes. If not, no.
Eh, what's another 8 years?
Iowa athletics department isn't built to win, it's built to "graduate" and "do it right" - an occasional successful season will keep coaches around indefinitely.....
Iowa athletics department isn't built to win, it's built to "graduate" and "do it right" - an occasional successful season will keep coaches around indefinitely.....
It's not a question of whether or not I WANT to keep him. It's only a choice between acceptance and anger. I accept the Fran is going to be the coach for a while because I don't want to get angry about it.
If Fran were to announce tomorrow that he is leaving, I would have serious mixed emotions - I'd worry about the next guy and the roster turnover. But, if I liked the new hire and the roster stayed fairly stable I'd be ok with it. Or if the new coach could fill up the roster as well.
If the University of Iowa announced tomorrow that they were firing Fran, I would be embarrassed. Fran isn't close to deserving the hook.
If Fran were to announce tomorrow that he is leaving, I would have serious mixed emotions - I'd worry about the next guy and the roster turnover. But, if I liked the new hire and the roster stayed fairly stable I'd be ok with it. Or if the new coach could fill up the roster as well.
If the University of Iowa announced tomorrow that they were firing Fran, I would be embarrassed. Fran isn't close to deserving the hook.
I guess some people have a lot vested in status quo. I know there was a vocal core of posters arguing until the very end not to fire Lickliter...that somehow we wouldn't be able to find a coach at $2-3 million/year.
Looking at the poll, currently 18% think a B-ball coach that goes 20 years at Iowa and can't even make the sweet16 a single time is worth keeping if his name is Fran.
I remember watching Lute's Final-4 team make its run and the state
was lit up with excitement.....It is a lot better to take a chance on being bad but have the chance to be great again versus being mediocre with chance to be slightly above mediocre.
Looking at the poll, currently 18% think a B-ball coach that goes 20 years at Iowa and can't even make the sweet16 a single time is worth keeping if his name is Fran.
I remember watching Lute's Final-4 team make its run and the state
was lit up with excitement.....It is a lot better to take a chance on being bad but have the chance to be great again versus being mediocre with chance to be slightly above mediocre.
Odd you would point to the 4 votes for Fran in this poll.
83% would not keep Fran. That's about as lopsided as these polls get. Is it that important to get to 100%?
What if the poll said that Iowa was going to get to ONE S16 by 2030 - would anyone change their vote?
I like Fran but teams are judged, fairly or not, by tournament success. I would put a B1G regular season title above that but that’s just me. The draw this year was favorable and yet iowa failed to advance. Iowa is not a mid major program where just getting to the tournament every so often us enough. Ya gotta produce at some point.
Now let’s between now and 2030 Iowa wins 2 regular season B1G championships and a couple more BTT titles but still fails to advance to the S16. That would certainly earn him some latitude with most fans.
Now let’s between now and 2030 Iowa wins 2 regular season B1G championships and a couple more BTT titles but still fails to advance to the S16. That would certainly earn him some latitude with most fans.
There should be an option for, do you want him as our coach now, with 0 appearances in 12 years. I guarantee 12 years ago everyone would have voted they want a new coach if they knew our coach would be 12 years in with 0 appearances.
Are y'all hearing this? So the Sweet 16 is the bar now??? Dr. Tom got fired for not getting PAST the Sweet 16....what a F'n joke this program has become....especially far as expectations are concerned.
Fran will be the coach for awhile, but, this is a good point. There are several Fran fanboys that would want him to stay even if they knew no Sweet 16 in 12 years.
Fran has done a good job, would not be disappointed if he was no longer the coach though. He does a good job of identifying and developing players, not so much at guard.
I've heard the Joey Range recruitment put Dr. Tom at odds with the athletic department. Also, hard to believe now but Alford was the hot young coach at that time. Bowlsby wanted him and got him.
Yup.
If we're winning championships, that earns Fran extra time to make it happen.
Will it suck to not make the Sweet 16 for at least the next 8 seasons? Yep, absolutely.
But at least we'll have some championships to hold over our haters' heads in the meantime..........
Winning Championships that real programs don't even care about winning....they are resting up to make a run at the ONLY one that the rest of the country will remember. Keep thinking low and we will keep getting EXACTLY what we've been getting.Yup.
If we're winning championships, that earns Fran extra time to make it happen.
Will it suck to not make the Sweet 16 for at least the next 8 seasons? Yep, absolutely.
But at least we'll have some championships to hold over our haters' heads in the meantime..........
what i find odd is that there seems to be a sense of entitlement that Iowa should be in the sweet 16.... or really any team for that matter.
guess what, you have to win your way to the sweet 16, the teams you play are also quality teams and wanting to advance as well.
The 80's spoiled Iowa fans (Final Four, Elite 8, Sweet 16, #1 Ranking)
The 90's was a decade of what might have been, with a sweet 16 (middle finger) to the administration for kicked Dr. Tom to the curb.
Alford was the great white hope, but the golden choir boy was a sleeze and bolted before the posse ran him out of town. Then the dark ages of Lick.
Fran has gotten Iowa back to a level of competitive acceptance in my mind. We've had a run of solid individual talent that garners All-Conf / All-American / POTY honors, but as a team we don't have all the pieces/depth needed to compete nationally in the NCAA's? Will we? who knows, but I'm all for getting behind the players that want to compete for Fran at Iowa and let's see where it takes us.
This seemed like the year going into the tourney but it's not gonna be 1 superstar that gets us there... It hasn't the last 2 years... I like the direction the recruiting has gone, and the improvement that's showing on the defensive end... IF and a BIG IF we can continue to defend, I like having guards like Bowen, Toussaint, Perkins, Ulis and Dix to help get us there.
guess what, you have to win your way to the sweet 16, the teams you play are also quality teams and wanting to advance as well.
The 80's spoiled Iowa fans (Final Four, Elite 8, Sweet 16, #1 Ranking)
The 90's was a decade of what might have been, with a sweet 16 (middle finger) to the administration for kicked Dr. Tom to the curb.
Alford was the great white hope, but the golden choir boy was a sleeze and bolted before the posse ran him out of town. Then the dark ages of Lick.
Fran has gotten Iowa back to a level of competitive acceptance in my mind. We've had a run of solid individual talent that garners All-Conf / All-American / POTY honors, but as a team we don't have all the pieces/depth needed to compete nationally in the NCAA's? Will we? who knows, but I'm all for getting behind the players that want to compete for Fran at Iowa and let's see where it takes us.
This seemed like the year going into the tourney but it's not gonna be 1 superstar that gets us there... It hasn't the last 2 years... I like the direction the recruiting has gone, and the improvement that's showing on the defensive end... IF and a BIG IF we can continue to defend, I like having guards like Bowen, Toussaint, Perkins, Ulis and Dix to help get us there.
Amen. The interesting part about the "entitlement" piece, is except for about 8000 diehard fans who actually show up to non-prime games, I'm not sure Iowa fans even "deserve" success, let alone feel a sense of entitlement.
Our fans (on this board) loudly complained about the Hawks this year (for the vast majority of the year), while the Hawks had an All-American for the third consecutive year and finished strongly in the Big Ten again. The support for the basketball program feels underwhelming and a bunch of bandwagon hoppers. Alford had "sell-out" Carver support for a couple of years, otherwise, I'd argue Iowa's success since Dr. Tom left is exactly what you'd expect from an often lackluster home environment, with a less than ideal recruiting base (compared to most), in a brutally difficult conference.
I'm not sure that's true. Dr. Tom was already not being brought back as of the beginning of the 1998-99 season. That team then got to Sweet 16, but the decision had already been made prior to that. Coming into that season, as we know, Davis hadn't gotten a Sweet 16 since '88.
Bowlsby gave us the "next level" line but as I see someone else mentioned, I've heard enough times that there was... let's say "disagreement" over Joey Range's recruitment. Range came to Iowa, and Davis was gone after that season. Range was gone the season after that. I'm not sure I can find it but I read an article that Joey Range showed up when Alford was hired, and Range was told that he'd have to earn his way on to the team. It's clear that Range was pushed out. Coincidence?
Anyway, I digress, but I don't believe our failures in the Sweet 16 was Davis's undoing since he rarely even got to that point. It seems it ran deeper than this.
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Here it is, with the relevant parts about Range below:
Moments of Madness: Dr. Tom's final run at Iowa
A lame-duck coach. A group of zoned-in players. One 'Sweet' finish.
www.hawkcentral.com
Steve Alford, the former Indiana wunderkind, was hired as Davis’ replacement after his 22-win season at Southwest Missouri State.
What followed was a culture shock for Range, who spent time back in Galesburg before meeting his new coach.
“I walked in on the team meeting, sat down and Alford was like, ‘You go into the hallway. ... You’re not a part of this team until you’ve proven yourself to me,” Range recalled. “I was like, ‘What are you talking about?’”
Alford’s father, Sam, came out to the hallway and eased tensions, Range recalled. But Range says he knew, “Alford wasn’t for me.”
Alford announced in April that Range was banned from workouts, in order to concentrate on academics. Range eventually transferred to Hutchinson Community College and never played at the Division I level again. His brief career is now one of the greatest what-ifs among former Illinois high school stars.
I would imagine most Iowa fans would have thought we would reach at least one Sweet Sixteen over the past eight years (giving him four to turn the program around from Lickliter's three worst years in program history).
I would also imagine the chances of getting to one over the next 8 years are about the same as they were over the prior 8 years, especially after watching our performance these past two seasons where we thought we had really solid teams that were prepped to make a run in the tourney.
We either need to reduce our expectations or hope for a coaching change that leads to improvement.
I would also imagine the chances of getting to one over the next 8 years are about the same as they were over the prior 8 years, especially after watching our performance these past two seasons where we thought we had really solid teams that were prepped to make a run in the tourney.
We either need to reduce our expectations or hope for a coaching change that leads to improvement.
Let's not pretend that getting rid of Davis isn't exactly what the fans wanted - and really, for the same reasons as fans that want to get rid of Fran. Every game, every year, was the same it seems. He couldn't land the prize recruiting targets. His stubbornness to run the press all the time, no matter what, drove fans nuts.
Let's also not pretend that Iowa didn't get a lot of heat for that decision in the media. You have to wonder if that, combined with the rocky relationship with Alford, didn't have an impact on the candidate pool when the Hawks hired Lick.
It's gonna be epic when Fran gets an extension in the next couple of weeks.
Let's also not pretend that Iowa didn't get a lot of heat for that decision in the media. You have to wonder if that, combined with the rocky relationship with Alford, didn't have an impact on the candidate pool when the Hawks hired Lick.
It's gonna be epic when Fran gets an extension in the next couple of weeks.
The Fran situation right now is nearly an exact reproduction of the Davis situation. I suppose if Barta told him he's out next year then maybe we'd get another Sweet 16?Let's not pretend that getting rid of Davis isn't exactly what the fans wanted - and really, for the same reasons as fans that want to get rid of Fran. Every game, every year, was the same it seems. He couldn't land the prize recruiting targets. His stubbornness to run the press all the time, no matter what, drove fans nuts.
Let's also not pretend that Iowa didn't get a lot of heat for that decision in the media. You have to wonder if that, combined with the rocky relationship with Alford, didn't have an impact on the candidate pool when the Hawks hired Lick.
It's gonna be epic when Fran gets an extension in the next couple of weeks.
Nowhere nearly close to the same situation. Barta is fully on board with Fran. It isn't all about winning. Fran recruits kids that go to class, graduate, stay out of trouble. BigTen Tourney Champs and making the Big Dance consistently along with those other attributes will keep Fran employed for a very long time.
I loved Dr. Tom, but he defied a directive of his AD in NOT recruiting Joey Range. That was the last straw for Dr. Tom.
Fran seems to be in a position that the job is his as long as he wants it, with exceptions like being fired for cause for some egregious behavior.
I think the expectations floor for team performance in Fran keeping his job does not involve NCAA tourney performance among those whose opinions actually have an impact. The AD has already demonstrated by how contract awards are given out that it is really not a factor.
If Fran stays out of the bottom of the league regularly (doesn't finish 12-13-14 more than 3 years or so consecutively), I don't see him going anywhere except by his own choice.
I think the expectations floor for team performance in Fran keeping his job does not involve NCAA tourney performance among those whose opinions actually have an impact. The AD has already demonstrated by how contract awards are given out that it is really not a factor.
If Fran stays out of the bottom of the league regularly (doesn't finish 12-13-14 more than 3 years or so consecutively), I don't see him going anywhere except by his own choice.
To be clear, with respect to results and fan expectations it's nearly the same. I believe Dr. Tom never lost in the First Round of the Dance, but other than Tournament success early in his Iowa tenure, he plateaued. Everyone said, I'm tired of 20 wins, around .500 in the Big Ten, and the Round of 32. Bowlsby was getting pressure due to these results, in addition to the Range situation you mention. So, it was certainly easier to let Dr. Tom go because of that.
Fran is in a good spot. Iowa is relevant again. Sure this year Tournament was disappointing, but the talk of Final Four and Big Ten Championship is helpful in moving things forward as to the perception of the program.
The poll is extremely misleading. What if, instead, the poll asked "if you knew Iowa would go to the final 4 at some point by 2030 would you keep Fran? I would say that very same number that want him gone now would want to keep him.
Bottom line, nobody has any way of knowing. And I don't care who you get as a coach, nobody is a guarantee here to have a higher level of success.
When the program looks to start declining, and by that I mean finishing in the bottom half of the conference, not making the tourney, and players start showing up on the court that look like Little Lick, then do what you have to do to move on and get someone else. But until then, relax. Fran appears to keep bringing in talent, is finishing near the top of the conference, has brought a ton of positive national exposure to this program and university, and is consistently taking his teams to the Dance, so give him a break. Let's see where it goes.
Bottom line, nobody has any way of knowing. And I don't care who you get as a coach, nobody is a guarantee here to have a higher level of success.
When the program looks to start declining, and by that I mean finishing in the bottom half of the conference, not making the tourney, and players start showing up on the court that look like Little Lick, then do what you have to do to move on and get someone else. But until then, relax. Fran appears to keep bringing in talent, is finishing near the top of the conference, has brought a ton of positive national exposure to this program and university, and is consistently taking his teams to the Dance, so give him a break. Let's see where it goes.
True, this poll is kind of in a vacuum because there are other factors involved for sure when it comes to firing a coach and our (the fans) satisfaction with the program.
But yeah, clearly, if you move the goalposts and say "Make a Final 4" then obviously the results of the poll are going to change. Final Fours was not the question, though. It was a question about never being able to reach the Sweet 16. Not sure what's misleading about it.
Ok, maybe misleading is not the right word. It would only be misleading if it was actually leading to something, like, using the results of this poll as data that supports getting rid of Fran. For instance, I wouldn't want to keep Fran if I knew we wouldn't go to the sweet 16 by 2030. But, I don't agree with the fact that Fran needs to go now. The results of this poll have every bit to do with the expectations of the fans and has nothing to do with Fran. Yet, people are commenting on whether or not Fran should stay or go. Whatever.
I don't, either. I've been plenty vocal about my frustration with this program's inability to do much in the NCAA Tournament, but I definitely am not calling for Fran to be fired. Not at all. And this is not just a Fran issue for me. This is also Alford and Lick, and even Davis to an extent (minus his 1999 Sweet 16).
If Fran keeps putting good teams on the floor and getting to the dance with solid seeds, but keeps losing in the 1st or 2nd round and never gets over the proverbial hump, it would be frustrating as all hell obviously but IMO would still be a mistake to show the guy the door barring a can't-miss hire being available (is there even such a thing?). Though if we keep having seasons like the last two, Fran will eventually break past the first weekend barrier IMO, probably sooner than later. If he doesn't, that'll be hard to figure.
This really does feel like the Tom Davis situation all over again. I'm not worried so much about "another Lickliter" hire but there surely are no guarantees. Just gotta be sure you're ready to see the end of the guy you currently have on your sidelines.
That's about how I see it.
Everyone should vote “no”. Everyone should also be able to see the the very apparent and obvious progress the program is making and come to the logical and obvious conclusion that Iowa WILL make the Sweet 16 with Fran rendering the silly poll completely moot.
So Iowa winning the conference tournament in a weak Big Ten that has been exposed in the tourney and a subsequent first round upset exit is apparent and obvious progress?
Again, it hasn't happened in the past eight years, what changes have occurred that give you such confidence it will happen in the next eight?
I guess a blind squirrel finds an acorn every now and then, but I'd rather not have it be an exception.
Again, it hasn't happened in the past eight years, what changes have occurred that give you such confidence it will happen in the next eight?
I guess a blind squirrel finds an acorn every now and then, but I'd rather not have it be an exception.
A basketball program is not a handful of games. Also, had Iowa won the B10 tourney recently? So progress, regardless of your thoughts on the conference, which I do agree with btw. Progress is relative to where you were yesterday. And where Iowa was yesterday was not seeded 6, 2, and 5 as they were (would’ve been for 2020) the past three years tourneys. The most recent three years produced the most “tourney success” (as unfortunately little there has been) of any three year stretch under Fran. One tourney canceled, one bad matchup, one bad game. It’s unfortunate, but that’s definitely what I saw. Consistently reaching and being seeded high in the tournament is the best predictor of success in the tournament. Plus if you want to talk history Iowa’s record with basketball coaches is horrid. Steve Alford the program killer. Lick the program necrophiliac. Dr. Tom…ok. But Fran is a MUCH better coach than Dr. Tom and honestly it’s not close. You want to talk about a guy who wouldn’t adjust, had odd substitutions, and was a generally poor recruiter? Tom’s larger tourney successes were had very early in his Iowa career, with Raveling’s recruits. Tom’s trajectory wasn’t what Fran’s is. In the five years preceding Tom’s “win one for the gipper” Sweet 16 run there were two round of 32 exits, two NITs, and one early spring break. Even then the decision to move on, and especially to hire Alford, proved to be disastrous to the program. So in my sporting lifetime Fran is easily the best Iowa coach and he’s coming off his best there years. Continue to build on that momentum!
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