Pre-season results and the case for Kris Murray to start getting star player minutes

[BBHawk]

I haven't seen Patrick playing as well to date as Kris has, whether injured or not. Through six games, Kris has looked better to me on both sides of the floor, especially defensively. I don't mean it to be a knock on Patrick though. Kris has just looked really good. Fran will figure out who should get the most minutes for the team to be successful. I'm of the opinion right now that Kris gives the team a better chance to succeed but really Iowa needs both to have outstanding years. I wish them both great years.

Patrick was pretty good in the second half on the last game. Took some time to shake off the rust.
But that said, I agree with you regarding letting the coaches work it out. I hope both PMac and Kris get major minutes. I think against most teams, having 4 players 6'8" - 6'9" who can score from anywhere on the floor and defend interior opponents will pay dividends in the long run. I am not pushing one kid over another. It's like Kenyon said in his post, this TEAM has a lot of good players so getting hung up on individual numbers now only serves to take away from the team effort these kids are putting out every game.

 

[RocknRollface]

Using these explicit statistics, why don't some of you write to the NCAA and try to have the rules changed to allow as many as 10 players from the same team on the court at the same time. That way Fran can satisfy all you nut cases to have your way.
Iowa hired a coach to run the program and that's what he doing. Let him coach and stop whining about whom should play and whom should not. Fran sees these kids everyday and no I don't always agree, but he's the coach. Enjoy the season and stop this effing stupidity.
Yes, Iowa is going to lose some games this year, that's a given no matter whom plays the majority of the 200 minutes allotted in a game and I understand when things fall apart during the season, wanting change from a fan base in natural.
Iowa on the other hand, is 6 and 0 and has been winning be an average of 30 points a game! Geez people get grip. Go ballistic and fight for change after things go south not before the apocopes....

Or......we talk about what ever the fvck we want because its a fvcking message board and thats why they exist?

 

[RocknRollface]

Kris may have produced better results in the games we’ve seen so far. That said, we can’t account for what the coaches have seen in Practices when Pmac has been healthy.

So, I will make this point. If I were putting the most productive 5 on the floor to start a game, I would put Kris in to replace Rebraca at this point. But then you don’t have much spark off the bench.

I hope that Kris and Patrick both develop to become the best players they are capable of becoming….it would help this team immensely.

The tenured players are not going to lose their spot based on what happens in practice.

 

[HawkAssassin]

Kris just brings a different dimension at the 5 we don’t have. It’s not about Filip not being good enough. The other night, Filip made a play hedging a ball screen which should’ve been a charge that most Iowa centers under Fran couldn’t have made. But he’s still a little hesitant to shoot from three and, to me, we’ll need shooting from that spot.

Filip is good, but Kris can be a special difference maker.

 

[perryhawk]

I haven't seen Patrick playing as well to date as Kris has, whether injured or not. Through six games, Kris has looked better to me on both sides of the floor, especially defensively. I don't mean it to be a knock on Patrick though. Kris has just looked really good. Fran will figure out who should get the most minutes for the team to be successful. I'm of the opinion right now that Kris gives the team a better chance to succeed but really Iowa needs both to have outstanding years. I wish them both great years.

In the exhibition game (where I believe Patrick had come back from injury and was healthy) he was the leading scorer and rebounder if I recall correctly…..if a person were to rewatch that you could get an idea of what he is capable of. I think he had 18 points in limited playing time.

 

[unoHawkeye]

The only scenario where Kris should join the starting lineup is one in which either he or Keegan starts at the 5. We have nobody aside from Rebraca that can play the position otherwise, so having Keegan, Kris, and Rebraca all start the game means that you would have to slide either Kris or Keegan, fresh off of 7 or 8 minutes played over to the 5 when you go to the bench.

Do I think Kris is one of our top 3 or 4 players? Probably. Should he receive 20-30 minutes? Probably. Do I think it makes sense to insert him into the starting lineup? Not really

 

[Ihawkhoops]

Fran has to stop the union mentality and play the guy with the hot hand. He commented last year about certain guys expecting to get their minutes and shots after the second unit outplayed the first during that 2-3 game stretch. Right back to the same starting 5 with the same PT allocation despite CJ and Connor being dinged up. I am confident a healthy Perkins and/or Kris would have contributed based on what we have seen from both this year.

A guy can be hot or cold in practice and the complete opposite come game time, so you have to adjust based on who is playing well at the time. I think it was the 2nd or 3rd non-con game this year when Jbo could not throw it in the ocean. Perkins comes in and scores (I think) 6-8 points in a few minutes and gets yanked to put Jbo back in. What coach takes a guy out who is in heat check mode out for a guy who is having an off night? Sure start Jbo in the second half, but keep Perkins or whoever in when they are rolling.

 

[Ihawkhoops]

The only scenario where Kris should join the starting lineup is one in which either he or Keegan starts at the 5. We have nobody aside from Rebraca that can play the position otherwise, so having Keegan, Kris, and Rebraca all start the game means that you would have to slide either Kris or Keegan, fresh off of 7 or 8 minutes played over to the 5 when you go to the bench.

Do I think Kris is one of our top 3 or 4 players? Probably. Should he receive 20-30 minutes? Probably. Do I think it makes sense to insert him into the starting lineup? Not really

Fair points, but if Rebraca doesn't pick it up on both ends, I am not sure how long Fran can start him. If he can't defend and rebound better, it's difficult to justify so much PT for a guy who isn't scoring. Kris will get some buckets and in my POV would be an upgrade to Rebraca today--despite being undersized at the 5. Other than IL and Purdue, the rest of the conference is comprised of athletic rim runners vs. big men.

 

[jonesy5960]

Fair points, but if Rebraca doesn't pick it up on both ends, I am not sure how long Fran can start him. If he can't defend and rebound better, it's difficult to justify so much PT for a guy who isn't scoring. Kris will get some buckets and in my POV would be an upgrade to Rebraca today--despite being undersized at the 5. Other than IL and Purdue, the rest of the conference is comprised of athletic rim runners vs. big men.

I don't' know if you're really being fair with Rebraca. He's not spectacular but statistically at least he's the best rebounder on the team. Defensively he's not a rim defender but he's 3rd on the team in blocks behind the Murrays. He's not been a big scorer as you said but he is averaging around 6 points per game with an effective FG% of 61% which is 3rd best on the team, again behind the Murrays. I'm not sure what else you want him to do.

 

[unoHawkeye]

Fair points, but if Rebraca doesn't pick it up on both ends, I am not sure how long Fran can start him. If he can't defend and rebound better, it's difficult to justify so much PT for a guy who isn't scoring. Kris will get some buckets and in my POV would be an upgrade to Rebraca today--despite being undersized at the 5. Other than IL and Purdue, the rest of the conference is comprised of athletic rim runners vs. big men.

If you’re right, and you may be, then Kris needs to prove it against a team with a pulse first. At this point in time, it’s easy to see why Fran is leaning more on Rebraca who has significant experience at the college level versus Kris, who is still getting acclimated

 

[Ihawkhoops]

If you’re right, and you may be, then Kris needs to prove it against a team with a pulse first. At this point in time, it’s easy to see why Fran is leaning more on Rebraca who has significant experience at the college level versus Kris, who is still getting acclimated

Agree. It's impossible to know how anyone, even Kris will do, against better teams. I suspect the Garza treatment with two guys trapping the ball out of his hands, which should lead to some open looks for others. I am not down on Rebraca, just a bit surprised he wasn't able to establish himself in the post against some pretty bad and small teams.

 

[Ihawkhoops]

I don't' know if you're really being fair with Rebraca. He's not spectacular but statistically at least he's the best rebounder on the team. Defensively he's not a rim defender but he's 3rd on the team in blocks behind the Murrays. He's not been a big scorer as you said but he is averaging around 6 points per game with an effective FG% of 61% which is 3rd best on the team, again behind the Murrays. I'm not sure what else you want him to do.

I am not down on him necessarily, but with all the guys in the portal, it would seem that Fran could have done more than get a serviceable 5, which is what he appears to be thus far. If he can't establish himself in the post against the paycheck teams Iowa has played, I am not sure how he will impact the game against better teams. I can live with so-so defense/rebounding if he has the interior and mid-range game Fran told us he has. I am also good with + defense/rebounding and limited scoring.

He is athletic and has a nice shot, so the tools are there. He may just need more time to get comfortable.

 

[jonesy5960]

I am not down on him necessarily, but with all the guys in the portal, it would seem that Fran could have done more than get a serviceable 5, which is what he appears to be thus far. If he can't establish himself in the post against the paycheck teams Iowa has played, I am not sure how he will impact the game against better teams. I can live with so-so defense/rebounding if he has the interior and mid-range game Fran told us he has. I am also good with + defense/rebounding and limited scoring.

He is athletic and has a nice shot, so the tools are there. He may just need more time to get comfortable.

Well that's really a different discussion regarding the portal. Maybe Fran should/could have done more. You were questioning how Fran can keep starting Rebraca based upon the current state of play and my opinion was that he has played pretty well so far.

 

[Ihawkhoops]

Well that's really a different discussion regarding the portal. Maybe Fran should/could have done more. You were questioning how Fran can keep starting Rebraca based upon the current state of play and my opinion was that he has played pretty well so far.

Yes and no. I mean Rebraca is here, so it is what it is. Fran clearly saw something in his game that he thought would be an addition to the team. To your point, Rebraca has contributed and I am not expecting Garza-type production. To be more concise, if Rebraca isn't scoring and he is just "ok" in other categories, then the decision to start Kris is a no-brainer IMO because Kris will get 10-14 points where Rebraca might get 4-6.

 

[jonesy5960]

Yes and no. I mean Rebraca is here, so it is what it is. Fran clearly saw something in his game that he thought would be an addition to the team. To your point, Rebraca has contributed and I am not expecting Garza-type production. To be more concise, if Rebraca isn't scoring and he is just "ok" in other categories, then the decision to start Kris is a no-brainer IMO because Kris will get 10-14 points where Rebraca might get 4-6.

Oh I'm definitely in the Kris camp. He can do it all. I'm just not sure if the 5 is where he belongs but I'd be happy to get him on the court whenever possible. He might get pushed around down there but I think he can play any position at a high level except the point. His natural positions are 2-4.

 

[RocknRollface]

Yes and no. I mean Rebraca is here, so it is what it is. Fran clearly saw something in his game that he thought would be an addition to the team. To your point, Rebraca has contributed and I am not expecting Garza-type production. To be more concise, if Rebraca isn't scoring and he is just "ok" in other categories, then the decision to start Kris is a no-brainer IMO because Kris will get 10-14 points where Rebraca might get 4-6.

Rebraca could be scoring a lot more if he were getting touches in the post but Iowas already scoring the most pts in the country so there really isn't an opportunity let alone a need.

His defense on the perimeter has been good. He's not a rim protector or a space eater but I'd gladly trade that for the ability to defend screens.

His rebounding is good on offense not great on defense.

Kris is the better and far more versatile player but Filip has a role.

Im good with Kris playing 2-5 in any combination but Keegan is a better option at the 5 and Filip is only a 5 with this group.

 

[Bulldogs1974]

at some point in a game I would like to see kris keegan patrick rebraca and joe t. I don't care if it's man or zone.
I'd like to see less of bohanon and connor.

 

[KcTo]

kris excel at preventing points, scoring points at high efficiency rates, and resounds at a high rate.

Why would you not want him playing against the other teams top players?

for the record, Rebraca provides the best combination of post scoring, defense and rebounding, so he’s getting most minutes in the #5 spot.

that leaves PMac as 1st guy off the bench in the front court and not in at end of game crunch Time.

 

[DodgerHawki]

Agree. It's impossible to know how anyone, even Kris will do, against better teams. I suspect the Garza treatment with two guys trapping the ball out of his hands, which should lead to some open looks for others. I am not down on Rebraca, just a bit surprised he wasn't able to establish himself in the post against some pretty bad and small teams.

That's where we are with this Iowa team. Thank God they are playing someone with a pulse tonight. It's nice to get people some minutes against terrible teams, but the only way you get better is by playing teams who are actually decent. Virginia looked not very good early, but they have actually played decent teams so far.

I would not be shocked if Iowa looks overwhelmed initially tonight. Literally the first time all season that they won't be able to make 1 pass and get a wide open shot any time they want. Looking forward to see how the Hawks respond. This week is about getting better. Iowa could play well against Purdue and still get run out of Mackey, Purdue is that good.

 

[jonesy5960]

kris excel at preventing points, scoring points at high efficiency rates, and resounds at a high rate.

Why would you not want him playing against the other teams top players?

for the record, Rebraca provides the best combination of post scoring, defense and rebounding, so he’s getting most minutes in the #5 spot.

that leaves PMac as 1st guy off the bench in the front court and not in at end of game crunch Time.

 

[KcTo]

I most certainly did…

(did what?)

 

[jonesy5960]

That's where we are with this Iowa team. Thank God they are playing someone with a pulse tonight. It's nice to get people some minutes against terrible teams, but the only way you get better is by playing teams who are actually decent. Virginia looked not very good early, but they have actually played decent teams so far.

I would not be shocked if Iowa looks overwhelmed initially tonight. Literally the first time all season that they won't be able to make 1 pass and get a wide open shot any time they want. Looking forward to see how the Hawks respond. This week is about getting better. Iowa could play well against Purdue and still get run out of Mackey, Purdue is that good.

I'd be kinda shocked. Rebraca is in his 4th year. JBo filed for social security last month. Keegan has looked like a veteran the moment he stepped on the floor last year. Patrick played 15 mins per game last year. You guys act like these guys haven't been through the wars before. I don't get it.

 

[jonesy5960]

I most certainly did…

(did what?)

Suggested that Kris start in place of Pmac. That's considered heresy by many.

 

[RocknRollface]

I'd be kinda shocked. Rebraca is in his 4th year. JBo filed for social security last month. Keegan has looked like a veteran the moment he stepped on the floor last year. Patrick played 15 mins per game last year. You guys act like these guys haven't been through the wars before. I don't get it.

Toussaint is in his 3rd year too.

Iowa is one of the oldest teams in college basketball.

The perception some fans have of this team is odd.

 

[jonesy5960]

Toussaint is in his 3rd year too.

Iowa is one of the oldest teams in college basketball.

The perception some fans have of this team is odd.

A pox upon me for the JT omission. And yeah. I don't get it.

 

[nbanflfactory]

Good sign from jbo

 

[Hawksfor3]

This isn't hockey. There doesn't need to be a "2nd unit" line change mentality here.

Was referring to the "Bench".

 

[jonesy5960]

Keegan can't be stopped.

 

[KcTo]

Suggested that Kris start in place of Pmac. That's considered heresy by many.

id also be OK with
Keegan at 35m/gm
Kris at 25m
PMac at 25m

 

[SI_NYC]

Patrick is looking great on the offensive side tonight.

 

[KcTo]

Patrick is looking great on the offensive side tonight.

Agree, I think there enough minutes for Keegan, Kris and PMac to all get 25m/game

 

[Hawksfor3]

Let's fight to extend this slim lead.

 

[SI_NYC]

Pat with the block to finish it. Awesome win!