Smith had 7 TOs; Loyer 3. Both Played so tight. Those 2 and Gillis were reluctant to shoot the 3 in the last 10 minutes. Instead of Edey getting the ball on the block in the last 10 minutes, he was consistently 30’ from the bucket setting high ball screens, taking himself away from the action. Total meltdown. Not a PU hater at all and Matt Painter is a good guy and heck of a coach (albeit, not last night), but go IU!!
Purdue will get bounced early.
- Thread starter RocknRollface
- Start date
The style allowed to play. Rough & tough, teams build long defenses and 'slow' ball because of this.
Not many teams with slashers on a consistent basis. Closest one at the moment is Penn St, and they appear ready (go figure).
FDU isn’t even a good 16 seed
They lost 15 games and beat one team in top 300
Embarrassing loss
Going for the full house next year with a 14 seed. UVA might say hold my beer in a couple years if they keep it up as well.
You were right. I was wrong. Painter better hit the portal hard. Will Iowa be better than Purdue next year? No
The topic was never about Iowa. We knew Iowa wasn’t good and Fran doesn't win tournament games.
Purdue will win the conference next year as long as Edey stays.
The bigbten as a whole needs to stop letting so many of these smaller athletic guards get to mid majors.
They need to figure out how to find these guys that aren't on the main aau circuits.
In the last 5 years what P6 conference(s) do you think the Big Ten has performed better than in March? Genuinely curious.
I don’t have any idea as to the last 5 year (which is a random timeframe) overall record comparison. I think the Big Ten has historically been fine and will be back with Final Four caliber teams, particularly in the age of NIL and big TV money. This article pretty much speaks to the ups and downs of the Tournament. https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/where-did-the-big-tens-march-magic-go/
I was responding to “Big Ten is it’s own worst enemy” comment. I was interested to hear in what ways the Big Ten is its worst enemy. A uniform ball and improved officiating seem like ways the Big Ten could help itself, but curious what else.
The Big Ten has not performed better than the following 3 for sure:
ACC- Multiple recent national championships, more sweet 16 and beyond appearances
Big 12- Multiple recent national championships, more sweet 16 and beyond appearances
Big East - Multiple recent national championships, more sweet 16 and beyond appearances
Looking at the SEC - Kentucky has a championship and a handful of final fours in the mid 2010's.
I would say it is between the Pac 12 and Big 10 for worst conference in the postseason in the last 10-15 years.
Edey is half Chinese, I suspect basketball leagues in China and sponsored promotions would pay him a lot more than Purdue NIL or Europe. He can play on the next Chinese Olympic team.
The NBA draft rankings I saw said late 2nd round. I don't think his game will improve with another year at Purdue---time for him to get paid Big guys don't stay healthy for as many playing years in general. I haven't heard where Purdue is at with NIL but even they might want to move their NIL money toward some more dynamic guards/forwards, The lineup they put out this year without Edey would have been on par with Minnesota.
Ok, don't necessarily agree with all of that, but what's the root cause of this? And what's the fix?
1. Guard play - B10 tends to rely on centers which doesn't work in March (Cockburn, Garza, Edey, etc). Big 12 understands this, look at the guard play from Kansas and Baylor programs the last few years; better than anywhere else.
2. Athletes. The SEC and ACC don't always look the best on analytic websites but they overpower teams in March with length and rebounding. Arkansas vs Gonzaga last year was a great upset example where the team with better athletes simply beat the more skilled team. This is more difficult as the best athletes in the country are from the south and/or are being bought with NIL.
One game elimination favors defensive oriented teams IMO more than say a 7 game series would too.
The reality of a one game elimination scenario seems to make guys play tight on offense but with more urgency on defense.
Interesting notion.
I was just pondering the other day the feasibility of a double-elimination NCAA tournament. I suppose the big upsets might not be as meaningful, but I wouldn’t complain about having more basketball to watch. (Especially if it meant a better opportunity for Iowa.)
I think everyone would agree that guard play is a (probably THE) key to March success. I don't think having a good post/center and good guard play are mutually exclusive though. And position-less basketball is the ideal way to play if you have the roster composition, but it's rare for teams to have it.
Likewise "athletes" are important, but the players have to be good basketball players too. Princeton has found plenty of success beating teams full of "better athletes" (as a counterpoint to your Arkansas v. Gonzaga anecdote).
So, if you're simply saying recruiting is where the Big Ten is failing in the last few years, here's to hoping the TV money and NIL helps that improve. I think the overall parity in college basketball will only increase going forward though as free agency takes over.
ironically, looking at seeding/expected wins, the Big 12, Big Ten and SEC are the worst leagues since the 2019 tournament, and the PAC 12 is the best.
This only looks at games in the first four rounds, as the final four is past where a 1 seed should make it.
This is also incomplete since it doesn't include the sweet sixteen/elite 8 games from this year.
The ACC should have won 32 games and have won 33 (+1) and have 1 team left
The Big 12 should have won 45 and have won 34 (-11), but they have 2 teams left this year and multiple titles in the last 5 yeas
The Big East should have won 20 and have won 19 (-1) with 3 teams left this year
The Big Ten should have won 45 and have won 35 (-10) with 1 team left this year
The PAC 12 should have won 16 and have won 22 (+6) with 1 team left this year
The SEC should have won 41 and have won 33 (-8) with 3 teams left this year
Oddly enough, teams that have titles in the last four tournaments are under performing.
Baylor has won 3 games less than their seeding,
Kansas has won 5 games less than their seeding
Virginia has won 4 games less than their seeding,
Again, we never debated Iowa being better. It was proven on the court. As I said before...two things can be true. Purdue is better than Iowa but not a for real 1 seed. Both...are true.
You should do a post about how psychic you are!!! Nailed it and then some. I was way wrong about Purdue. Do you know, will i get my wifey pregnant in the next year?
So how would you rank the conferences based on total performance since 2019, not individual years?
That was total but will change with the current week's games.
Individual tournaments:
2019
ACC (-5)
Big Ten (+3)
MWC (-2)
Pac 12 (+3)
all other conferences were +/- 1 or 0
2021
ACC (-2)
Big 12 (-5)
Big Ten (-8) Illinois, Iowa, Ohio State and Purdue woof
Pac 12 (+10) Oregon St, UCLA, USC
Summit (+2) Oral Roberts
all other conferences were +/- 1 or 0
2022
ACC (+8) Miami, Carolina +3 each
American Athletic (+3)
MAAC (+3) St Peters
MWC (-3)
Pac 12 (-3)
SEC (-7)
WCC (-2)
all other conferences were +/- 1 or 0
In this 2019-2022 time period that you're using, which P6 conference(s) has the B10 been better than overall?
For the three complete tournaments from 2019, 2021, and 2022, the Big Ten has been better than the SEC, and only slightly worse than the Big 12.
The limitation to my approach is that I don't count Final Four wins, I only compare how a team does in the regional compared to their seed. So the Big 12 has clearly been better with two titles, but through the regionals they have underperformed to their seeding. This year will be even worse for them if Texas and K State don't do well in the sweet sixteen this week.
2019-2022
| Row Labels | Sum of Expected Win | Sum of Wins | Sum of +/- |
| ACC | 28 | 29 | 1 |
| Big 12 | 32 | 27 | -5 |
| Big East | 12 | 12 | 0 |
| Big Ten | 35 | 29 | -6 |
| PAC 12 | 10 | 20 | 10 |
| SEC | 31 | 24 | -7 |
| WCC | 14 | 10 | -4 |
The Big 12 performed the worst this season based on seeding/wins:
For the last 5 tournaments (2018-2023), the Big Ten is the worst performing conference up to the Final Four with the SEC right behind. This list only includes conferences expected to win more than 2 games, or that finished greater than +2.
-FAU's run this year helped Conf USA be the top conference using this metric.
-Baylor and Kansas both helped drag the Big 12 down, but also both won titles in the period.
-Pac 12 is the only Power conference with a +, but they were only expected to win 3 games/tournament, so expectations were lower for them. Maybe they outperformed, or maybe they were under seeded.
| Row Labels | Sum of Expected Win | Sum of Wins | Sum of +/- |
| American Athletic | 3 | 2 | -1 |
| Big 12 | 10 | 7 | -3 |
| Big Ten | 8 | 6 | -2 |
| Conf USA | 0 | 2 | 2 |
| Ivy | 0 | 2 | 2 |
| Mountain West | 1 | 2 | 1 |
| Northeast | 0 | 1 | 1 |
| PAC 12 | 4 | 2 | -2 |
| SEC | 8 | 9 | 1 |
| Southern | 0 | 1 | 1 |
For the last 5 tournaments (2018-2023), the Big Ten is the worst performing conference up to the Final Four with the SEC right behind. This list only includes conferences expected to win more than 2 games, or that finished greater than +2.
-FAU's run this year helped Conf USA be the top conference using this metric.
-Baylor and Kansas both helped drag the Big 12 down, but also both won titles in the period.
-Pac 12 is the only Power conference with a +, but they were only expected to win 3 games/tournament, so expectations were lower for them. Maybe they outperformed, or maybe they were under seeded.
| Row Labels | Expected Win | Wins | +/- |
| Conf USA | 0 | 6 | 6 |
| MVC | 1 | 6 | 5 |
| PAC 12 | 18 | 22 | 4 |
| MAAC | 0 | 3 | 3 |
| Ivy | 0 | 2 | 2 |
| MAC | 1 | 3 | 2 |
| Summit | 0 | 2 | 2 |
| ACC | 45 | 46 | 1 |
| A10 | 2 | 2 | 0 |
| Big East | 30 | 29 | -1 |
| MWC | 8 | 6 | -2 |
| AAC | 18 | 15 | -3 |
| WCC | 19 | 16 | -3 |
| Big 12 | 53 | 48 | -5 |
| SEC | 50 | 41 | -9 |
| Big Ten | 53 | 43 | -10 |
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