Yeah because I already know you're an atheist.
The stakes are really low if atheism is true. We'll never even know.
Question on bible
- Thread starter sadiehawkins
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Yeah because I already know you're an atheist.
The stakes are really low if atheism is true. We'll never even know.
The key will be to guess the correct religion so you don't suffer for all of eternity.
The key will be to guess the correct religion so you don't suffer for all of eternity.
Yep. FYI, Mormons don't believe in permanent Hell.
I think people in other religions can certainly be saved.
Many other religions believe the same.
So....(FICTION) + (FICTION) = FACT.
Got it. Or perhaps your subtle sarcasm eluded me?
Well sure, if you accept that ridiculous premise.
There may be a permanence to existence, an unending "soul" or similar, but who really knows?. The notion that God would create a place to inflict permanent pain and suffering upon some of these unfortunate "souls" is so patently absurd it became the primary force to make me question everything about my Christian upbringing and its teachings. My pastor when I was in high school became very adept at not allowing himself to engage me in such discussions, many times I think I actually rattled his own beliefs and religious tenets.
Jesus talked about Hell 30 times in the Gospels. That's where the teaching comes from.
Hell only exists because humans choose it, at least according to Christianity. They WANT to go to Hell. I've talked to many atheists that say they would prefer Hell over Heaven because Heaven would be "boring."
Lastly, if you're right, there are no stakes. But, if Hell is real and eternal, we're talking serious business...
Sure.
Show me evidence and I'll adjust my stance accordingly. Just like any rational person should do.
Here's a question for you: What's the cutoff for getting into Heaven (or having an afterlife or whatever)?
Does entrance into Heaven require human DNA? If so, how human? Will we share Heaven with Neanderthals or Australopithecans? Are all races equally human enough? How about people with genetic disabilities?
What about other species that God also created? Are dolphins or dogs unworthy of Heaven? Why?
What about sentient alien species? Do they go to Hell, or simply cease to exist?
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Great questions. Jesus spoke of Heaven and Hell.
Who goes to Heaven or Hell is up to God.
You can check out Catholic.com for thousands of free articles.
You've mentioned that before, but is that really true? Thirty separate times, or more like 5 times repeated across multiple gospels? Just asking, since I don't know; but I do know there was lots of repetition.
Then why did He do such a crappy job? Why are there deformities, liars, ugly people, psychopaths...?
Here are some.
Where Is Hell Mentioned in the Bible?
Where is hell mentioned in the Bible? Click here for a list of verses from Scripture that support the Catholic beliefs about hell.
Did you really find my point impossible to grasp? It wasn’t very complicated.Yeah because I already know you're an atheist.
The stakes are really low if atheism is true. We'll never even know.
That's not exactly what I believe, the notion that there is nothing hanging in the balance.
I do agree with your notion that "hell" is a deliberate decision made by a being to show disloyalty to God/the Divine, to willingly separate your individual existence from all others who do exist, including God/the Divine. IMO hell is the concept of willingly and deliberately rejecting God/the Divine, but the punishment itself is that separation and accordingly the end of that beings existence, much like a wiping of the hard drive, not unending torment and suffering, and that God/the Divine is infinitely patient and loving of all of its creation and creatures and will give infinite chances to allow them to readjust their way of thinking and believing so as to eventually enter grace and fellowship with God/The Divine/and all divine creatures.
The Biblical/Christian God is far too metal for my sensibilities and the logical framework I operate within. An interesting subject to discuss though.
Thanks for the link. I checked it out, and also the sublink.Here are some.
Where Is Hell Mentioned in the Bible?
Where is hell mentioned in the Bible? Click here for a list of verses from Scripture that support the Catholic beliefs about hell.www.catholic.com
A lot of it doesn't make sense to me. Lets start with the first example. Here's the fuller text:
The Faith of the Centurion
5 When Jesus had entered Capernaum, a centurion came to him, asking for help. 6 “Lord,” he said, “my servant lies at home paralyzed, suffering terribly.”
7 Jesus said to him, “Shall I come and heal him?”
8 The centurion replied, “Lord, I do not deserve to have you come under my roof. But just say the word, and my servant will be healed. 9 For I myself am a man under authority, with soldiers under me. I tell this one, ‘Go,’ and he goes; and that one, ‘Come,’ and he comes. I say to my servant, ‘Do this,’ and he does it.”
10 When Jesus heard this, he was amazed and said to those following him, “Truly I tell you, I have not found anyone in Israel with such great faith. 11 I say to you that many will come from the east and the west, and will take their places at the feast with Abraham, Isaac and Jacob in the kingdom of heaven. 12 But the subjects of the kingdom will be thrown outside, into the darkness, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.”
Who is Jesus talking about when he says "the subjects of the kingdom will be thrown outside"? Why would they be thrown outside? What did they do? What is the source of the weeping and gnashing of teeth? Is "outside" hell?
That's almost certainly an attempt at humor - or, at worst, mockery of the quaint depictions of heaven in scripture. Or maybe whistling in the dark.
It's not people "choosing" or wanting to go to hell.
Minor side question: why do you capitalize Hell when the Catholic site you linked doesn't?
I have made up several religions that I think have more merit than the traditional ones. None have a hell.
Why does Christianity need hell?
As the great Jesse Ventura once said. Religion is for the weak of mind. Couldn t agree more.
Hitchens was talking about the totalitarian aspect of religion. What he said was mostly accurate and the presentation was fun. But it has nothing to do with your claim that "I've talked to many atheists that say they would prefer Hell over Heaven because Heaven would be 'boring.'"
Hitch said numerous times he wouldn't want to go to Heaven. I've spoken with atheists that said they would prefer Hell, including a former college professor I know.
I've heard plenty of people say that.
"All the good party people would be in hell."
"You can drink and have sex in hell."
"Most of history's great thinkers would be in hell."
"All they do in heaven is sit around and sing praises of God."
Comments like that are only serious in the sense that they mock how heaven and hell are conventionally portrayed. They don't actually mean that they would rather be tortured for eternity. They mean they think the conventional depictions of heaven and hell are absurdly unrealistic and unbelievable. And they're right about that.
No, they are mocking what mainstream religion seems to stand for. You can argue that mocking isn't constructive behavior, but isn't the real problem that mainstream religion projects these mockable images of heaven and hell?
Mrs a generally thinks purgatory is like a living room with dated furniture.
The " subjects of the Kingdom who would be thrown outside" were the natural Jews who did not accept the opportunity offered to them to be rulers with Christ in His heavenly Kingdom. They rejected Jesus as the Messiah and as a nation they were cast off as God's chosen nation.
Many from the east and west would represent people of gentile nations who would accept that invitation and would be welcomed to recline at the heavenly table, or rulers with Christ in the kingdom of the Heavens.
Jesus prophecy about the Jews being cast off as the chosen people was fulfilled in 70 CE when the Romans destroyed Jerusalem and the temple.
