Recruiting By the Numbers 2013-2015

[Azchief32]

As has been talked about, recruiting makes a huge difference in today's sport. Used to be, Tom was content with get 2 top 20s and host of top 50s. After PSU's success with their top ten guys, is it clear that recruiting wins titles now. We have a good team but look at OSU, tOSU, and PSU. We have beaten all three in duals including just taking it to OSU the last few years but they still out score us when the money is on the line. So look at these:

Class of 2015:

1. Anthony Valencia Bellflower CA 174 Arizona State-#9
2. Logan Massa St. John's MI 165 Michigan-#2
3. Zahid Valencia Bellflower CA 184 Arizona State-#3
4. Myles Martin Penns Grove NJ 184 Ohio State-#10, NCAA Champ
5. Vincenzo Joseph Pittsburgh PA 149 Penn State-#4
6. Matt Kolodzik Bellbrook OH 141 Princeton-#4
7. Nick Piccinnini East Setauket NY 125 Oklahoma State-#11
8. Michael Kemerer Murrysville PA 149 Iowa-#2
9. Kaid Brock Stillwater OK 133 Oklahoma State-Injured, #2
10. Lance Benick Fridley MN 197 Arizona State-Transfer

This class of top tens has a good shot at 9 AAs this year.


11. Ke-Shawn Hayes Kansas City MO 141 Ohio State-Injured
12. Bobby Steveson Apple Valley MN 184 Minnesota-Not Ranked
13. Josh Shields Murrysville PA 157 Arizona State-#12
14. Fox Baldwin Kissimmee FL 165 Virginia-Not Ranked
15. Max Thomsen Union IA 149 Northern Iowa-#8
16. Joseph Smith Stillwater OK 157 Oklahoma State-#6, Returning AA
17. David McFadden Morristown NJ 165 Virginia Tech-AA,RS
18. Zack Chakonis Ramsey NJ 285 Northwestern--Not Ranked
19. Xavier Montalvo Aurora IL 174 Illinois-Hasn't started
20. Fredy Stroker Bettendorf IA 149 Minnesota-Transfer

Maybe add one with Thomsen and another for Smith

Class of 2014:

1. Kyle Snyder Woodbine MD 197 Ohio State--Champ/Olympic Champ/2XFinalist
2. Chance Marsteller Fawn Grove PA 174 Oklahoma State --DNQ, transfer, jail, transfer
3. Bryce Brill Mt. Carmel IL 157 Northwestern--Injured, just retired
4. Jason Nolf Rural Valley PA 149 Penn State--2nd
5. Nick Nevills Clovis CA 285 Penn State--Injured but ranked top 5 this year
6. Micah Jordan St. Paris OH 157 Ohio State--Rd of 12,Top five this year at 149
7. Bo Nickal Allen TX 184 Penn State--Runner up
8. Joey McKenna Pine Brook NJ 141 Stanford--Third Place
9. Thomas Haines Solanco PA 285 Ohio State--DNP/Transfer
10. Solomon Chisko Jeannette PA 149 Virginia Tech--Sixth Place

5/10 AA'd with one champ and two finalists but some bad luck in this class. So let's take a look at 11-20.

11. Johnny Sebastian Bergen NJ 174 Northwestern--Injured
12. Jered Cortez Carol Stream IL 125/133 Illinois--Transfer/Injured
13. Chandler Rogers Stillwater OK 174 Oklahoma State--Rd of 12
14. Sam Stoll Mantorville MN 285 Iowa--Injured
15. Michael Pixley Blue Springs MO 184 Lindsey Wilson--Not D1
16. Ryan Blees Bismarck ND 157 Oklahoma State--DNQ
17. Tyler Berger Prineville OR 149 Nebraska--RD of 12
18. Stevan Micic Hanover IN 125 Northwestern--Transfer
19. Garrett Peppelman Harrisburg PA 165/174 Virginia--DNQ
20. Jacob Danishek Miamisburg OH 157 Indiana--DNQ

No AAs

2013 Class

1. Bo Jordan St. Paris OH 165 Ohio State Inj, 2nd, 3rd 2. Adam Coon Fowlerville MI 285 Michigan DNP, 2nd, 3rd
3. Zain Retherford Benton PA 141 Penn State 5th,RS, 1
4. Ben Whitford St. John's MI 149 Michigan Did not wrestle D1
5. Isaiah Martinez Lemoore CA 165 Illinois RS, 1, 1
6. Joey Dance Christiansburg VA 125 Virginia Tech 4, DNP, DNP
7. J'Den Cox Hickman MO 285 Missouri 1, 5, 1 (Olympic Bronze)
8. Anthony Ashnault South Plainfield NJ 141 Rutgers RS, 8, 4
9. Brooks Black Dover PA 285 Illinois RS, Has not placed
10. Nathan Tomasello Parma OH 125 Ohio State RS, 1, 3

4 Individual Champions, 8/10 have AA'd...most in their first year


11. Cody Wiercioch Muse PA 174 Pittsburgh
12. Bryant Clagon Tom's River NJ 149 Rider
13. Dean Heil Strongsville OH 133 Oklahoma State RS, 4, 1
14. Zach Beard Tuttle OK 174 Wyoming
15. Eric Morris Mechanicsburg PA 184 Harvard
16. Kevin Norstrem Brandon FL 141 Virginia Tech
17. Oliver Pierce Allen TX 157 Oklahoma
18. Jake Short Simley MN 157 Minnesota
19. Domenic Aboundar Gates Mill OH 184 Michigan
20. Brandon Jeske Virginia Beach VA 133 Old Dominion

I did the last 11-20 by memory so I could have missed one or two.

So let's review...1-10...likely to AA in their first year...many not even in RS status. 11-20 is a crapshoot. Some of these guy are not even starting for their respective teams or transferred. I was pretty surprised at the severe drop off in results. After looking further down at 2012, 2011...these last three top 10's have and will be pretty special. But you have to go out and get them. FYI...Iowa has 2/60...Kemerer and Stoll. Northwestern had 4 but we all know what happened there.

 

[Jaybird319]

Like your thought process w top ten vs 11-20. It would be interesting to see your process extrapolated back to the 80s

I'm surprised one of wrestling media pundits haven't produce an article showing this data

If theyn have please link!

 

[Jaybird319]

That kind of info could show what Gable did/didn't do w his recruits talent.

I know it wouldn't b apples to apples, but food for thought none the less!

 

[NYWRESTLER94]

Clagon was an AA 2 years ago

 

[MadTown Hawk]

What is also striking is that PSU is not hoarding all of these top ten kids. But, they are getting the right top ten kids to fill need weights. While most programs are simply scrambling to get any of these kids, PSU is generally picking and choosing the right ones for them. Must be nice.

 

[Azchief32]

Clagon was an AA 2 years ago

It's why I have him highlighted

 

[rossel 33]

Nice work Az. There is plenty of evidence that the top 10 generally outperform 11-20, who in turn out perform 21-30, and so on.

I think so many ranking services underweight the importance of this fact and place too much emphasis on total # of top 100 guys e.g. FLO giving PSU the #2 ranking, behind NC St, despite getting #1 Hall, #2 Suriano and #5 Manville and #80 AJ Nevills.

 

[rossel 33]

A comparison of Iowa with PSU. The first # is the decile (top 10 = 1, 11-20 = 2, and so on). The second number is where the kid ranked in their HS weight class.

Iowa

Gilman 2 4
Clark 3 3
Turk 7 10
(Carton >10 21)
Sorenson 3 5
Kemerer 1 2
Gunther >10 23
Meyer 5 4
Brooks 2 2
Wilcke 9 11
Stoll 2 3
(Holloway 8 5)

PSU

Suriano 1 1
Cortez 2 1
Gulibon 1 1
Retherf 1 1
Nolf 1 1
Joseph 1 1
Hall 1 1
Nickal 1 1
McCutch 4 4
Nevills 1 1

One can see PSU is STACKED with the best of best coming out of HS. Iowa and everyone else is nowhere close on these metrics. Hopefully, with the trend in Iowa's recruiting, 2 years from now, there will be better balance.

 

[Stanley75]

Yep talent trumps developing.

 

[DonHawkeye]

The multiple national tournaments available to the high school kids has made the p4p rankings much more accurate from the past.
There is roughly 40-50 Top 10 P4P wrestlers in the pool of NCAA wrestlers on any given year and only 80 All Americans.
Each incoming class almost seems to be more college ready than the previous year, so a freshman p4p means just as much as senior p4p.
A Zain Rutherford is equal to 4 Sammy Brooks and change at nationals.
So not only do the Top 10 p4p guys horde a lot of the podium, I am guessing they horde an even higher percentage of the big time scoring spots (1-3 place).

The incentive to push the rules recruiting wise is higher than ever.

 

[TarpHawk]

I'm happy whenever this dead horse is beat, because it's the dead horse I rode in on, and I'm not changing it in the middle of the stream.

Coaching a #40 P4P to an 7th place NCAA finish is commendable but doesn't win team titles. I think it's safe to say someone finally realized that.

 

[Chuck C]

A comparison of Iowa with PSU. The first # is the decile (top 10 = 1, 11-20 = 2, and so on). The second number is where the kid ranked in their HS weight class.

Iowa

Gilman 2 4
Clark 3 3
Turk 7 10
(Carton >10 21)
Sorenson 3 5
Kemerer 1 2
Gunther >10 23
Meyer 5 4
Brooks 2 2
Wilcke 9 11
Stoll 2 3
(Holloway 8 5)

PSU

Suriano 1 1
Cortez 2 1
Gulibon 1 1
Retherf 1 1
Nolf 1 1
Joseph 1 1
Hall 1 1
Nickal 1 1
McCutch 4 4
Nevills 1 1

One can see PSU is STACKED with the best of best coming out of HS. Iowa and everyone else is nowhere close on these metrics. Hopefully, with the trend in Iowa's recruiting, 2 years from now, there will be better balance.

Wow. After putting the numbers out there like that, I'm surprised Iowa hangs with PSU as much as they do.

 

[LaxHawk174]

Wow. After putting the numbers out there like that, I'm surprised Iowa hangs with PSU as much as they do.

Although it hasn't produced the results we all want, it's a true testament to TnT's coaching ability. I don't think there can be any disputing that. Coaching up a lineup of almost entirely 2nd or worse decile guys to compete with lineups full of 1st decile guys like PSU, and tOSU.

 

[Azchief32]

A comparison of Iowa with PSU. The first # is the decile (top 10 = 1, 11-20 = 2, and so on). The second number is where the kid ranked in their HS weight class.

Iowa

Gilman 2 4
Clark 3 3
Turk 7 10
(Carton >10 21)
Sorenson 3 5
Kemerer 1 2
Gunther >10 23
Meyer 5 4
Brooks 2 2
Wilcke 9 11
Stoll 2 3
(Holloway 8 5)

PSU

Suriano 1 1
Cortez 2 1
Gulibon 1 1
Retherf 1 1
Nolf 1 1
Joseph 1 1
Hall 1 1
Nickal 1 1
McCutch 4 4
Nevills 1 1

One can see PSU is STACKED with the best of best coming out of HS. Iowa and everyone else is nowhere close on these metrics. Hopefully, with the trend in Iowa's recruiting, 2 years from now, there will be better balance.

Thanks to Rossel for adding on to the big picture view and nailing down the difference between PSU and Iowa right now. I had looked at that the other week and I was like yes!!! Cortez is not a #1 guy...but he was at his weight but outside the 10. I really wanted to see the overall results of the last few years. 2011 and 2012 was not that impressive in the first decile but I think the clubs and freestyle development at the national and international level are really making a difference with these kids coming in now. Retherford, Hall, and Nickal all had international experience in high school and got to roll with the big boys. Plus, 4/10 of their starting lineup came from Young Guns. In our dual with them, 6/20 guys wrestled for the Young Guns club as I believe Topher was with YG Iowa.

 

[rossel 33]

Although it hasn't produced the results we all want, it's a true testament to TnT's coaching ability. I don't think there can be any disputing that. Coaching up a lineup of almost entirely 2nd or worse decile guys to compete with lineups full of 1st decile guys like PSU, and tOSU.

This.

When you figure Team "A" has a #1 guy at their weight in HS in 9 out of 10 starting spots for their college team, the coach's job of developing them is to make sure they stay ahead of those they were already better than in HS.

Team "B," "C," and everyone else have their work cut out for them, trying to get those 3rd and 4th and 7th tier guys to catch up and then surpass those who were considered better than them at the end of HS.

Currently, Iowa has only one starter who was ranked in top decile, Kemerer (but even he was not #1 at his HS weight, that honor went to PSU's Joseph). Not a huge surprise that Kemerer is looking extremely promising in his RS Fr year. Also not a surprise that Suriano, Retherford, Nolf, Nickal are just tearing it up this year.

 

[Azchief32]

Also, if you look at 2010-2012 classes...they had a total of 6 titles. Four from Striebler, Nico and TShirt. 2013 already has six, 2014 looks promising as does 2015. We had the #1 classes in 2010 and 2012 but there was a serious lack of talent in the top 20 in each. 2011 ended up with 6 titles shared between three guys in the top 20...Gwiz, DRinger, and Nico. 2012 Top 20 has yet to win a title. A cursory glance of the top 100 has only Gabe Dean winning titles for that class.

 

[Chuck C]

Here is Okie State (This is using D1CW's rankings)

Nick Piccininni 1,1
Kaid Brock 1,1
Dean Heil 2,1
Anthony Collica 3,3
Joe Smith 2,2
Chandler Rogers 2,3
Kyle Crutchmer 2,1
Nolan Boyd NA,NA
Preston Weigel 11,10
Austin Schafer NA/NA

They also had the #2 overall in Marstellar in 2014. Pretty impressive with Boyd, who wasn't on any ranking radar.

 

[SetonHallPirate]

Nice work Az. There is plenty of evidence that the top 10 generally outperform 11-20, who in turn out perform 21-30, and so on.

I think so many ranking services underweight the importance of this fact and place too much emphasis on total # of top 100 guys e.g. FLO giving PSU the #2 ranking, behind NC St, despite getting #1 Hall, #2 Suriano and #5 Manville and #80 AJ Nevills.

That's really something that's dawned on me a lot lately. Especially in a tournament situation, if you think about it, you are looking at 2.5 guys per class per year for each slot at any given weight (discounting washouts, of course). So if you think about it that way, a top 2-3 guy in a class is a 2x national champ, top 5 is a 2x finalist, top 10 a 2x top four, top-20 a 2x All-American, and top 80 a 2x national qualifier, and this is something we (by we, I mean all of us in the media, myself included) have been getting wrong for a long period of time. The rankings we've been using, frankly, are better-suited for dual potential, but, of course, we don't have a true dual National Championship (although the Dual Championship Series has gotten us close, IMO).

 

[TarpHawk]

Although it hasn't produced the results we all want, it's a true testament to TnT's coaching ability. I don't think there can be any disputing that. Coaching up a lineup of almost entirely 2nd or worse decile guys to compete with lineups full of 1st decile guys like PSU, and tOSU.

No doubt about it. But that's a tepid consolation prize.

 

[LaxHawk174]

No doubt about it. But that's a tepid consolation prize.

Agreed, but I'm a glass half full kind of guy, so i'll take that consolation prize and patiently wait until 2018-2019 when Brands will have a lineup with Four or Five 1st Decile guys, One or Two 2nd Decile guys, and a 3rd Decile guy all in the starting lineup. A stark contrast to this years lineup, and we were right in the thick of things until Stoll went down.

 

[Azchief32]

That's really something that's dawned on me a lot lately. Especially in a tournament situation, if you think about it, you are looking at 2.5 guys per class per year for each slot at any given weight (discounting washouts, of course). So if you think about it that way, a top 2-3 guy in a class is a 2x national champ, top 5 is a 2x finalist, top 10 a 2x top four, top-20 a 2x All-American, and top 80 a 2x national qualifier, and this is something we (by we, I mean all of us in the media, myself included) have been getting wrong for a long period of time. The rankings we've been using, frankly, are better-suited for dual potential, but, of course, we don't have a true dual National Championship (although the Dual Championship Series has gotten us close, IMO).

Taking glance at NC State's #1 class and PSU's #2 2016 classes...whose would you rather have? I know Hall just lost to Meyer but I would be willing to overlook that and take PSU's class.

 

[Chuck C]

Ohio State

Jose Rodriguez 5,7
Nathan Tomasello 1,2
Luke Pletcher 1,1
Micah Jordan 1,2
Jake Ryan NA,NA
Cody Burcher NA/NA
Bo Jordan 1,1
Myles Martin 1,2
Kollin Moore 9,9
Kyle Snyder 1,1

They also have Isaiah White 1,2 and Ke-Shawn Hayes 2,2 waiting in the wings.

 

[SetonHallPirate]

Taking glance at NC State's #1 class and PSU's #2 2016 classes...whose would you rather have? I know Hall just lost to Meyer but I would be willing to overlook that and take PSU's class.

And that's (both of) our points. If we're looking at things from a dual perspective, I'd probably say NC State's class. If we're looking at things from a tournament perspective, and, last I checked, NCAAs is not done based on dual meets, you have to go with Penn State's if you're being honest with yourself.

 

[NYWRESTLER94]

Ohio State

Jose Rodriguez 5,7
Nathan Tomasello 1,2
Luke Pletcher 1,1
Micah Jordan 1,2
Jake Ryan NA,NA
Cody Burcher NA/NA
Bo Jordan 1,1
Myles Martin 1,2
Kollin Moore 9,9
Kyle Snyder 1,1

They also have Isaiah White 1,2 and Ke-Shawn Hayes 2,2 waiting in the wings.

Still not confirmed if White will be a Buckeye

 

[Sandor45]

Someone needs to show this thread to the hawk alum griping about how Brands can't develop and how Carl is doing so much better with his guys.
You guys laid out the disparity of recruits and the affects of that perfectly here.
Greatest recruiter in the game is Carl Sanderson
Some of the greatest developers are
Tom and Terry brands
John smith
Tim Flynn
J Robinson
Bruce Smith

 

[MSU158]

It was touched on a bit earlier, but the even bigger thing when ranking team recruiting should include the "need weight" recruits. Not only is PSU getting the best of the best, but they are often filling in crucial spots so they barely miss a beat.

What Sanderson is doing on the recruiting Scene is very similar to Saban at Alabama. You may be able to beat them here and there, but competing with them on a yearly basis is all but impossible.

 

[SetonHallPirate]

Someone needs to show this thread to the hawk alum griping about how Brands can't develop and how Carl is doing so much better with his guys.
You guys laid out the disparity of recruits and the affects of that perfectly here.
Greatest recruiter in the game is Carl Sanderson
Some of the greatest developers are
Tom and Terry brands
John smith
Tim Flynn
J Robinson
Bruce Smith

Been watching too much football? Even he retired from the NFL 13 seasons ago.

Thinking you meant Brian Smith.

 

[The Vak]

Arguing about development at this point is a losing argument. The game has changed. The most important thing you can do in the sport now is get the talent in the door. Ain't nobody better at that than Cael and his team at Penn State. Iowa has made strong shifts towards rectifying that situation bringing in Marinelli, Teasdale (hopefully), Lee and Warner, but we need more. Sasso would be a nice step.

When our "developmental" guys are the Kaleb Young's and Carter Happel's of the world instead of the Michael Kelly's, THEN we're going to be in great shape. I think Kaleb is looking like a REAL find out of the Young Guns, but we're in a better spot when HE, a top 30 recruit, is the lowest ranked recruit in our lineup.

Next step for Iowa's recruiting, outside of trying to get Sasso, will be getting a heavyweight (Gable Steveson, although obviously that seems unlikely, or Colton Schultz are the big dogs coming thru the HS scene) and someone in the 184 range.

Right now our future lineup, if everything goes according to plan, could look something like:

125: Spencer Lee
133: Gavin Teasdale
141: Carter Happel
149: Sammy Sasso (hopefully)
157: Michael Kemerer
165: Alex Marinelli
174: Kaleb Young
184: ???
197: J-War
HW: ???

That looks EXTREMELY formidable. We're talking a senior Kemerer, junior Marinelli, Happel and Young, sophomore Lee and J-War and freshman Gavin and Sammy. Lets round that out.

 

[LaxHawk174]

Arguing about development at this point is a losing argument. The game has changed. The most important thing you can do in the sport now is get the talent in the door. Ain't nobody better at that than Cael and his team at Penn State. Iowa has made strong shifts towards rectifying that situation bringing in Marinelli, Teasdale (hopefully), Lee and Warner, but we need more. Sasso would be a nice step.

When our "developmental" guys are the Kaleb Young's and Carter Happel's of the world instead of the Michael Kelly's, THEN we're going to be in great shape. I think Kaleb is looking like a REAL find out of the Young Guns, but we're in a better spot when HE, a top 30 recruit, is the lowest ranked recruit in our lineup.

Next step for Iowa's recruiting, outside of trying to get Sasso, will be getting a heavyweight (Gable Steveson, although obviously that seems unlikely, or Colton Schultz are the big dogs coming thru the HS scene) and someone in the 184 range.

Right now our future lineup, if everything goes according to plan, could look something like:

125: Spencer Lee
133: Gavin Teasdale
141: Carter Happel
149: Sammy Sasso (hopefully)
157: Michael Kemerer
165: Alex Marinelli
174: Kaleb Young
184: ???
197: J-War
HW: ???

That looks EXTREMELY formidable. We're talking a senior Kemerer, junior Marinelli, Happel and Young, sophomore Lee and J-War and freshman Gavin and Sammy. Lets round that out.

Wilcke is the same age as Kemerer, he is going to be our 184 lber barring any stud 184 lb commitments.

 

[pablow]

Someone needs to show this thread to the hawk alum griping about how Brands can't develop and how Carl is doing so much better with his guys.
You guys laid out the disparity of recruits and the affects of that perfectly here.
Greatest recruiter in the game is Carl Sanderson
Some of the greatest developers are
Tom and Terry brands
John smith
Tim Flynn
J Robinson
Bruce Smith

I'd put Rob Koll near the top of the developer list. He has done a great job.

 

[Sandor45]

I'd put Rob Koll near the top of the developer list. He has done a great job.

Yup. For sure.
Him and Damien Hahn do some great work with the kids they get

 

[WWDMHawkeye]

This discussion also dispels the myth that you can't tolerate holes in the lineup and still win Nationals. It happens all the time. You might drop a dual meet or two more per season, but it's all about getting guys to Saturday night with bonus points along the way, and statistically, those are the top 10 p4p type guys. You put 6 guys like that in your lineup with the other 4 even failing to make the podium, and you still have a great shot at a national team title. Whatever you get from the other 4 is pretty much gravy.

The numbers may change if the top programs amass more of the elite guys, but the main point will remain that it's all about getting them into the finals with bonus along the way. Obviously easier said than done. But we Iowa fans seem to have been conditioned to want 10 complete studs. In the age of 9.9, assuming you're following the rules (which I'm confident Iowa does but not so confident that some others do), 10 total studs isn't a realistic goal. A hole or two needs to be tolerated in the interest of stacking the rest of the lineup with legit national title threats who will dominate through the quarters and wrestle Saturday night.

 

[MSU158]

WWDMHawkeye,

I like where your mind is at. However, can Iowa really do that? Duals are more important at Iowa than anywhere else. And it isn't even close. Would the fan base tolerate 3 or even 4 .500 types in the lineup the whole season? Plus, if they invest so much into 5 or 6 complete studs, will they still have the time and resources to develop the other 4 or 5 to the level they have been?

I actually think a mixture of the old mindset still needs to be there. Recruit the "Iowa type" while peppering in the can't miss recruits where they can get them. Go all out for the guys like Lee that fit into both categories. You still go hard for the guys like Hall, but don't ignore the top 30 guy that fits.

 

[crablegs1]

125: Spencer Lee
133: Gavin Teasdale
141: Carter Happel
149: Sammy Sasso (hopefully)
157: Michael Kemerer
165: Alex Marinelli
174: Kaleb Young
184: ???
197: J-War
HW: ???

That looks EXTREMELY formidable. We're talking a senior Kemerer, junior Marinelli, Happel and Young, sophomore Lee and J-War and freshman Gavin and Sammy. Lets round that out.

Could someone do the tier/weight class comparison for this lineup? I'm going mostly off of memory here. IMO this team needs to win a national championship.

125: 1, 1
133: 1, 1
141: 2, ?
149: 1, 1 (assuming Sasso)
157: 1, 2
165: 1, 2 (was Hall at the same weight?
174: 2, ?
184:
197: 1, 1
Hvy:

 

[pablow]

WWDMHawkeye,

I like where your mind is at. However, can Iowa really do that? Duals are more important at Iowa than anywhere else. And it isn't even close. Would the fan base tolerate 3 or even 4 .500 types in the lineup the whole season? Plus, if they invest so much into 5 or 6 complete studs, will they still have the time and resources to develop the other 4 or 5 to the level they have been?

I actually think a mixture of the old mindset still needs to be there. Recruit the "Iowa type" while peppering in the can't miss recruits where they can get them. Go all out for the guys like Lee that fit into both categories. You still go hard for the guys like Hall, but don't ignore the top 30 guy that fits.

I don't think Iowa is going to sacrifice a thing by bringing in guys like Lee, Gavin, Warner, et al. If any thing, these guys will enhance the room development. Don't get your logic MSU.

 

[1stplacehawk]

Kemerer was 1,1. He won Super 32, ironman, Powerade, and PA states during his senior year. He was at 145 and Joseph was at 152 their entire senior years.

 

[MSU158]

I don't think Iowa is going to sacrifice a thing by bringing in guys like Lee, Gavin, Warner, et al. If any thing, these guys will enhance the room development. Don't get your logic MSU.

I was talking about the part where you have a 5 or 6 stud lineup and 4 or 5 holes(depending on what you call a hole). You see this on teams like Cornell,tOSU and a couple past PSU teams.

I wasn't saying Iowa couldn't do it. I do know that many teams(Illinois for one) have been questioned for sacrificing their 2nd tier development by focusing on their elite. I was saying that Iowa should have a dual focus in recruiting and not go solely for the top 10 talent. Get the can't miss guys where they can, but still make sure to grab the St. John's and Telfords that may be a small step below, but fit the team mold very well.

 

[1stplacehawk]

Arguing about development at this point is a losing argument. The game has changed. The most important thing you can do in the sport now is get the talent in the door. Ain't nobody better at that than Cael and his team at Penn State. Iowa has made strong shifts towards rectifying that situation bringing in Marinelli, Teasdale (hopefully), Lee and Warner, but we need more. Sasso would be a nice step.

When our "developmental" guys are the Kaleb Young's and Carter Happel's of the world instead of the Michael Kelly's, THEN we're going to be in great shape. I think Kaleb is looking like a REAL find out of the Young Guns, but we're in a better spot when HE, a top 30 recruit, is the lowest ranked recruit in our lineup.

Next step for Iowa's recruiting, outside of trying to get Sasso, will be getting a heavyweight (Gable Steveson, although obviously that seems unlikely, or Colton Schultz are the big dogs coming thru the HS scene) and someone in the 184 range.

Right now our future lineup, if everything goes according to plan, could look something like:

125: Spencer Lee
133: Gavin Teasdale
141: Carter Happel
149: Sammy Sasso (hopefully)
157: Michael Kemerer
165: Alex Marinelli
174: Kaleb Young
184: ???
197: J-War
HW: ???

That looks EXTREMELY formidable. We're talking a senior Kemerer, junior Marinelli, Happel and Young, sophomore Lee and J-War and freshman Gavin and Sammy. Lets round that out.

I personally like Murin more than Happel and think he will be our long term 141.

 

[TarpHawk]

I was talking about the part where you have a 5 or 6 stud lineup and 4 or 5 holes(depending on what you call a hole). You see this on teams like Cornell,tOSU and a couple past PSU teams.

I wasn't saying Iowa couldn't do it. I do know that many teams(Illinois for one) have been questioned for sacrificing their 2nd tier development by focusing on their elite. I was saying that Iowa should have a dual focus in recruiting and not go solely for the top 10 talent. Get the can't miss guys where they can, but still make sure to grab the St. John's and Telfords that may be a small step below, but fit the team mold very well.

Not sure we have that luxury. It needs to be all-in to win an NCAA team title, and let the duals end up where they end up. Gable generally had at least 1 dual loss per season, and no one brings that up, for the obvious reason that no one cares.

Gable's teams had holes--it was rare for Iowa to send all 10 guys to NCAAs. Iowa only had 8 qualifiers in 1986, but 6 finalists and 5 champs (good for 158 points). We only had 6 qualifiers in 1988, but 3 finalists and 1 champ (enough for 2nd). The very next year, with Penrith and Alger graduated, we had 8 qualifiers (like in '86) but no finalists--we took 6th. The difference between finalists and not is a huge point swing. We need Penriths and Algers and Kistlers.

 

[rossel 33]

I personally like Murin more than Happel and think he will be our long term 141.

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Kind of in the same camp. I think Happel still has quite a ways to go before being considered AA material.