Recruiting

[JBJRFL]

It is my opinion that the willingness by PSU to encourage true freshman in the lineup has caused the late migration of top P4P recruits there, particularly the last approximately 4 years. These top level recruits don't want to redshirt and want mat time immediately. I think Teasdale had many other personal reasons for PSU but I don't think he wanted to redshirt and it is very likely with TnT. This may be a new reality for TnT to consider.

 

[Azchief32]

Wow...a recruiting thread

 

[JohnBasedow]

Seriously just stop with this crap

 

[HawkeyeEmpire]

No offense to any of our guys but I don't think we have had any recruits that are ready to contend for a title in a tf year, Lee would be next year but has stated he wants the ta. I'm sure if gt came here was ready and wanted it TnT would let him go

 

[24 so far]

It is my opinion that the willingness by PSU to encourage true freshman in the lineup has caused the late migration of top P4P recruits there, particularly the last approximately 4 years. These top level recruits don't want to redshirt and want mat time immediately. I think Teasdale had many other personal reasons for PSU but I don't think he wanted to redshirt and it is very likely with TnT. This may be a new reality for TnT to consider.

It is ABSOLUTELY a factor, I guarantee it. And if Brands and Co. weren't aware of it by now, shame on them.

I get that we're so damn far behind right now that he's trying to cobble something together so we can make a run at some point (hopefully), because we have obvious holes in our lineup from year to year that could have been filled by true freshman that would have done just as well as the starters we've thrown out there and prayed with.

Spare me the Alex Tsirtsis "argument", it doesn't hold water and never has.

 

[LutherAce]

The problem with this is that the upper classmen that started as freshman are no longer wrestling for the team...Whether they act on that (transfer or graduate early) is their call but, that can be a slippery slope.

 

[24 so far]

The problem with this is that the upper classmen that started as freshman are no longer wrestling for the team...Whether they act on that (transfer or graduate early) is their call but, that can be a slippery slope.

Who are they wrestling for? Where's the slippery slope? What am I missing? I don't know what you're trying to say, but I'm not seeing a problem.

You can wrestle on the Varsity for 4 years. Hopefully a productive 4 years, then you're replaced by the next recruit who is hopefully good enough to start from the get-go and wrestle for 4 years and you keep the cycle going if you can. You don't need to be in College for 5 years. Assuming you don't get hurt you're not taking up scholarship money sitting on the sideline either, so you're getting more bang for your scholarship buck. If the kid is good enough to start, I fail to see the downside.

There is so much proof to the contrary by now I don't know how anyone would even question the logic.

I GUARANTEE you the redshirt yes or no talk comes up with every Coach after a high level kid (that's the kind we want right?). Some will surely want the opportunity, some won't, and some will want a guarantee that they can wrestle right away, though likely no one would admit it publicly.

 

[MVPFAN]

If a guy is not mid to high AA quality it is not worth wrestling him. You also need to consider if he wants to wrestle.

 

[diggerpup]

If a guy is not mid to high AA quality it is not worth wrestling him. You also need to consider if he wants to wrestle.

Balance between high AA immediately and lineup needs for a title run.

And make sure the wrestler & his family buy in, regardless of the decision.

 

[HawkFT]

Not to mention with the no redshirt theory, as we all know- one less year of wear and tear. Also if you have a younger, healthier superstar either raises the effort of the upper classman or they get beat out. Next man in.

 

[Hawkeye197]

I believe a redshirt year is vital to many young wrestlers development. I would venture to guess its close to 50/50 if they are truly ready to compete at the highest level. I'm not talking duals. I'm talking NCAA championship level. Some of these kids being recruited today are true freshmen. Not hold back freshman. A year can make the difference. Especially in college. Some kids have been wrestling in a college room all through HS. Some kids can go, and more power to them. But some need that year of development. If it's my kid, I'm pushing for a redshirt year. But ultimately it is a wait and see decision. Just my opinion on my kid.

 

[24 so far]

If a guy is not mid to high AA quality it is not worth wrestling him. You also need to consider if he wants to wrestle.

That's why my previous statement reads "some won't".

Middle of the road kids don't get the opportunity to wrestle Varsity as true freshman very often, nor does any sane person want them to. That most likely means you've got a hole in your lineup and you have to do whatever is necessary to put a warm body in there.

We aren't talking about middle of the road kids here, we're talking about letting top recruits know if they come to Iowa they don't automatically have to redshirt, because right now from where I sit it sure as hell looks like that's the case. Until Brands proves otherwise, guess what? It's real. (spare me the Burak news - he redshirted in Colorado)

And you're (by you're, I mean everybody, not you MVPFAN) living in a fantasy world if you think it isn't brought up by other Coaches around the country when recruiting head to head against Iowa for elite level recruits.

I'm not suggesting in the least that Iowa loses out on all the top recruits going elsewhere because they haven't wrestled true freshman, but I am saying it is a factor in why some of them won't entertain Iowa more closely than they otherwise might. No doubt in my mind.

When other schools do wrestle true freshman, and they finish ahead of you, and it happens often enough, guess what? If it walks like a duck and talks like a duck. It's a duck.

 

[Azchief32]

I believe a redshirt year is vital to many young wrestlers development. I would venture to guess its close to 50/50 if they are truly ready to compete at the highest level. I'm not talking duals. I'm talking NCAA championship level. Some of these kids being recruited today are true freshmen. Not hold back freshman. A year can make the difference. Especially in college. Some kids have been wrestling in a college room all through HS. Some kids can go, and more power to them. But some need that year of development. If it's my kid, I'm pushing for a redshirt year. But ultimately it is a wait and see decision. Just my opinion on my kid.

What would you think if your kid won opens and then went to Midlands and dominated? Would you be more open to it? Hypothetically, speaking of course.

 

[rossel 33]

I'd say, it depends on the kid.

A Mark Hall or Suriano or Retherford were so talented coming out of HS, they could handle it. Those guys are relatively rare, at least in Iowa's lineup. It's possible Clark and Gilman could've, given the way they could go with McD and their Midland results. Marinelli might have done okay, maybe AA.

But, jmho, most of the Iowa wrestlers wouldn't have contributed much in March had they gone their true fr year.

 

[Azchief32]

I'd say, it depends on the kid.

A Mark Hall or Suriano or Retherford were so talented coming out of HS, they could handle it. Those guys are relatively rare, at least in Iowa's lineup. It's possible Clark and Gilman could've, given the way they could go with McD and their Midland results. Marinelli might have done okay, maybe AA.

But, jmho, most of the Iowa wrestlers wouldn't have contributed much in March had they gone their true fr year.

I look at 197 and think its ripe for the taking...or at least placing in the top 4. We had an undersized kid, who wasn't able to generate a lot of offense, get to Rd of 12. Just think what a Warner, for example, could do. It's an interesting hypothetical but is in reverse...would be good for him individually but the team is so young that it won't help with team points...which we are going to need further down the road. I think a guy like Warner could AA with this group at 197. I think his only real weakness would be having to put more muscle on because I think he is there...gas tank, mentally, and technique.

 

[wasdt21]

don't know why kids are in a big hurry, take the shirt year establish yourself. retherford would be 4 timer if he had shirted true freshman year.

 

[Azchief32]

don't know why kids are in a big hurry, take the shirt year establish yourself. retherford would be 4 timer if he had shirted true freshman year.

Depends...had he stayed at 141, he would have still had to go through Streibler.

 

[minnhawkeye]

Have a question...
Can Hall red shirt some year since they pulled it or does that mean it is used up. Zain wrestled his freshman year and then red shirted just wondering if Hall could .....For sure he will not just wondering.

 

[DonHawkeye]

Are we even sure that most of these true freshman that have wrestled for PSU wouldn't have actually preferred to redshirt? From the amount of pressure I hear he puts on guys he is recruiting to commit, I can only imagine the pressure he puts on guys in his program in these situations.

 

[Azchief32]

Have a question...
Can Hall red shirt some year since they pulled it or does that mean it is used up. Zain wrestled his freshman year and then red shirted just wondering if Hall could .....For sure he will not just wondering.

Yes. When they pulled it, all of his prior matches counted. If they wanted him to shirt next year, he could.

 

[24 so far]

Have a question...
Can Hall red shirt some year since they pulled it or does that mean it is used up. Zain wrestled his freshman year and then red shirted just wondering if Hall could .....For sure he will not just wondering.

You have 5 years to wrestle 4, in any which way you want to do it. But nobody HAS to redshirt. Wrestle 4, graduate in 4, bye-bye and thanks for the memories!

 

[Azchief32]

You have 5 years to wrestle 4, in any which way you want to do it. But nobody HAS to redshirt. Wrestle 4, graduate in 4, bye-bye and thanks for the memories!

Wish we could go Kolat's way...Five years of eligibility, four years in the tourney.

 

[Stanley75]

Pretty much nonsense, all schools red shirt most of their athletes. The only guys that don't red shirt are the best of the best, and even some of those red shirt.

 

[championhawk]

Balance between high AA immediately and lineup needs for a title run.

And make sure the wrestler & his family buy in, regardless of the decision.

This is correct. It takes a special type of stupid to think Brands would lose a top recruit because he would make him redshirt. It is up to the wrestler and his family. The Bull was not ready this year for 165. It wasn't close as I stated for almost a year now. DSJ didn't need to wrestle as a true freshman either. Teasdale was the first recruit that I expected to go right away.

 

[24 so far]

This is correct. It takes a special type of stupid to think Brands would lose a top recruit because he would make him redshirt. It is up to the wrestler and his family. The Bull was not ready this year for 165. It wasn't close as I stated for almost a year now. DSJ didn't need to wrestle as a true freshman either. Teasdale was the first recruit that I expected to go right away.

The decision rests with the Head Coach. Period.

 

[championhawk]

The decision rests with the Head Coach. Period.

2 scenarios for you.
A. Hello Mr. Lee, I don't care what you or Spencer want. I will decide whether he redshirts or not
B. Hello Mr. Lee. How do you and Spencer feel about redshirting? Mr. Lee: We would prefer Spencer take a RS year. Brands: You got it.
After that you can choose to say Brands made the decision but that would not be the case. I know you are on record that Brands will never wrestle a true freshman. He is open to it in the right situation. There hasn't been a right situation yet. That time will come if they keep getting some top 10 pfp guys.

 

[goethe14]

You have 5 years to wrestle 4, in any which way you want to do it. But nobody HAS to redshirt. Wrestle 4, graduate in 4, bye-bye and thanks for the memories!

Don't forget about an Olympic redshirt year.

 

[sweatybetty]

The decision rests with the Head Coach. Period.

If Baby ain't happy....ain't nobody happy

 

[el dub]

Here's the rub….. If a kid straight out of high school isn't ready for the line up but is better than the kid manning the varsity spot, the program in question has a problem.

Currently, if your incoming recruits aren't of a caliber that they could perform well at a varsity level as freshmen, your program isn't competing for titles. Cael is showing that he has enough confidence in his recruiting that he can afford to simply put his best squad on the mat and replace as necessary.

 

[Media Fan]

Are we even sure that most of these true freshman that have wrestled for PSU wouldn't have actually preferred to redshirt? From the amount of pressure I hear he puts on guys he is recruiting to commit, I can only imagine the pressure he puts on guys in his program in these situations.

"I hear"= Would be nice to know whom it is that is telling you that. Otherwise, unsubstantiated .... Like a lot of stuff on the internet.

 

[bman546]

It is my opinion that the willingness by PSU to encourage true freshman in the lineup has caused the late migration of top P4P recruits there, particularly the last approximately 4 years. These top level recruits don't want to redshirt and want mat time immediately. I think Teasdale had many other personal reasons for PSU but I don't think he wanted to redshirt and it is very likely with TnT. This may be a new reality for TnT to consider.

I am sorry if my post is redundant. After reading the OP, I couldn't be bothered with reading the rest of the thread.

First of all, does anyone know if PSU encourages true freshmen into the line up? From I know, it was Hall that was pushing for it, not Cael. Also, we don't know if top level recruits are truly against redshirting. I could easliy say they are all for redshirting because it gives them, one more year to mathre and develop and therefore, may improve their placing at the NCAAs as freshmen. There are always a few very special wrestlers that are ready as true freshmen, but blanket statements regarding top level recruits not wanting to redshirt is quite a leap. 4 years of wrestling is 4 years of wrestling... Redshirting just gives guys a chance to further develop and close the gap on grown men that are 23 years of age as seniors... Guys like Coon who redshirted later on, but were certainly physically mature enough (when you're that big, odds are your body hit puberty hard at a younger age than most) are the exception. However, Coon did not place as a true freshmen. Perhaps he would have been a 4x All American if he had... I don't believe redshirting is a discouraging factor to recruits. With that said, Mark Hall went to PSU with the expectation they would red shirt him, and he lobbied to get it removed.

 

[24 so far]

Here's the rub….. If a kid straight out of high school isn't ready for the line up but is better than the kid manning the varsity spot, the program in question has a problem.

Currently, if your incoming recruits aren't of a caliber that they could perform well at a varsity level as freshmen, your program isn't competing for titles. Cael is showing that he has enough confidence in his recruiting that he can afford to simply put his best squad on the mat and replace as necessary.

All true.

Cael is certainly playing with house money. He can take these "risks" (wink,wink) because he's got the high end hammers to carry them regardless. And as long as others aren't willing to stray from their comfort zone, he'll keep getting away with it.

 

[el dub]

Here's something to think about….

Theoretically, a program that redshirts every kid divides 40 scholarship years between 50 wrestling years every four seasons. In other words, in five years, there will be forty scholarships utilized ON THE MAT.

A program that doesn't redshirt splits roughy 40 scholarship years on the mat between 40 athletic spots in the same time frame. During a five year time frame, fifty scholarships see mat time.

 

[championhawk]

Too bad the officials gifted Mark Hall two wins or things wouldn't be so happy in the Hall camp.

 

[thom67]

The decision rests with the Head Coach. Period.

That is absolutely not close to being true. Red shirting is usually the recruit's choice with guidance from the Brands. T and T would never force a kid to redshirt.

 

[nearfall2]

That is absolutely not close to being true. Red shirting is usually the recruit's choice with guidance from the Brands. T and T would never force a kid to redshirt.

I think you could ask some ISU kids who really makes the decision. It's not the kids or the family. No matter what, only the coach can make the decision. Is it advisable to get buy in from all parties? Duh! Required? No.

 

[24 so far]

That is absolutely not close to being true. Red shirting is usually the recruit's choice with guidance from the Brands. T and T would never force a kid to redshirt.

The Head Coach determines the lineup and who's in it every single year at every single University.

 

[Azchief32]

The Head Coach determines the lineup and who's in it every single year at every single University.

Brands has pretty much stated that he makes shirt decisions in conjunction with the parents

 

[thom67]

The Head Coach determines the lineup and who's in it every single year at every single University.

Yes that is correct. Except those who are redshirting are not eligible to be in the line up. That decision is decided by the parents, the kids, and the coaches in a joint decision. It depends on what is best for the kid and the team. Brands DOES NOT make that decision on his own! At least that is what he tells me.

 

[lionlover]

Depends...had he stayed at 141, he would have still had to go through Streibler.