That's a LOT of priests who did abuse children.
I would shy away from that point in the future.
Religion and Politics
- Thread starter EasyHawk
- Start date
I would shy away from that point in the future.
It's still lower than public school teachers yet we wouldn't slander the entire teaching profession.
Your spin efforts are enormous.
Any cult can make the claim that "they chose the punishment for themselves".
This is what I've read:
"The best available data reports that 4 percent of Catholic priests sexually violated a minor child during the last half of the 20th century with the peak level of abuse being in the 1970s and dropping off dramatically by the early 1980s. And in the recent Pennsylvania grand jury report only two cases were reported in the past dozen years that were already known and dealt with by authorities (thus the grand jury report is about historical issues and not about current problems of active clerical abuse now).
Putting clergy abuse in context, research from the US Department of Education found that about 5-7 percent of public school teachers engaged in similar sexually abusive behavior with their students during a similar time frame."
Separating Facts About Clergy Abuse From Fiction
Quality research and reason need to take precedence over emotion if we truly want to keep children and families safe from sexual abuse in the the Church or anywhere.
Sure they can. It may violate man law or god law, but they can choose to do so.
Again, those are what we know about and just the Catholics.This is what I've read:
"The best available data reports that 4 percent of Catholic priests sexually violated a minor child during the last half of the 20th century with the peak level of abuse being in the 1970s and dropping off dramatically by the early 1980s. And in the recent Pennsylvania grand jury report only two cases were reported in the past dozen years that were already known and dealt with by authorities (thus the grand jury report is about historical issues and not about current problems of active clerical abuse now).
Putting clergy abuse in context, research from the US Department of Education found that about 5-7 percent of public school teachers engaged in similar sexually abusive behavior with their students during a similar time frame."
Separating Facts About Clergy Abuse From Fiction
Quality research and reason need to take precedence over emotion if we truly want to keep children and families safe from sexual abuse in the the Church or anywhere.www.psychologytoday.com
Regardless, comparing Catholic priests to public school teachers undermines the notion that christianity holds higher moral ground.
It's true those are just the numbers that we know about but the same can be said for every other group; teachers, doctors, lawyers, car salesmen, rabbis, pastors, drag queens, etc. There's no reason to think priests have a higher abuse rate.
I understand you like to point out fallen priests because you don't like Christianity and it's teachings. That's your right.
Lastly, Christianity teaches that we are all flawed, fallen human beings. Jesus was even betrayed by one of His followers Judas.
Peter even denied Jesus three times. Peter, the first Pope.
There is every reason to think priests have a higher rate due to the massive coverups that have been discovered. There's no evidence of that with the others. On the contrary those within the organizations are actively participating in outing those individuals.It's true those are just the numbers that we know about but the same can be said for every other group; teachers, doctors, lawyers, car salesmen, rabbis, pastors, drag queens, etc. There's no reason to think priests have a higher abuse rate.
I understand you like to point out fallen priests because you don't like Christianity and it's teachings. That's your right.
Lastly, Christianity teaches that we are all flawed, fallen human beings. Jesus was even betrayed by one of His followers Judas.
Peter even denied Jesus three times. Peter, the first Pope.
I don't like the outlandish hypocrisy of religion and the zealots who promote it.
The coverups were from 40+ years ago.
That all ended in 2002 with the Dallas Charter when the Church reformed.
I've provided links in this thread.
For every 1 evil priest, there are 90+ good and holy ones.
The fact that you only judge priests by the evil minority is telling.
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You sure about that?
Almost 1,700 priests and clergy accused of sex abuse are unsupervised
An Associated Press investigation found that those credibly accused are now teachers, coaches, counselors and also live near playgrounds.
www.nbcnews.com
When the first big wave of the clergy abuse scandal hit Roman Catholic dioceses in the early 2000s, the U.S. bishops created the Dallas Charter, a baseline for sexual abuse reporting, training and other procedures to prevent child abuse. A handful of canon lawyers and experts at the time said every diocese should be transparent, name priests that had been accused of abuse and, in many cases, get rid of them.
Most dioceses decided against naming priests, however. And with the dioceses that did release lists in the next few years — some by choice, others due to lawsuit settlements or bankruptcy proceedings — abuse survivors complained about underreporting of priests, along with the omission of religious brothers they believed should be on those lists.
“The Dallas Charter was supposed to fix everything. It was supposed to make the abuse scandal history. But that didn’t happen,” said the Rev. Thomas Doyle, a canon lawyer who had tried to warn the bishops that abuse was widespread and that they should clean house.
No.
And you're wrong about how I judge priests. You're wrong a lot.
Keep spinning.
I haven't seen any of your posts that haven't been hostile to all aspects of Christianity.
If I missed something, I apologize.
You sure about that?
Almost 1,700 priests and clergy accused of sex abuse are unsupervised
An Associated Press investigation found that those credibly accused are now teachers, coaches, counselors and also live near playgrounds.
When the first big wave of the clergy abuse scandal hit Roman Catholic dioceses in the early 2000s, the U.S. bishops created the Dallas Charter, a baseline for sexual abuse reporting, training and other procedures to prevent child abuse. A handful of canon lawyers and experts at the time said every diocese should be transparent, name priests that had been accused of abuse and, in many cases, get rid of them.
Most dioceses decided against naming priests, however. And with the dioceses that did release lists in the next few years — some by choice, others due to lawsuit settlements or bankruptcy proceedings — abuse survivors complained about underreporting of priests, along with the omission of religious brothers they believed should be on those lists.
“The Dallas Charter was supposed to fix everything. It was supposed to make the abuse scandal history. But that didn’t happen,” said the Rev. Thomas Doyle, a canon lawyer who had tried to warn the bishops that abuse was widespread and that they should clean house.
That seems like mostly a problem with law enforcement and the local authorities.
From the article:
"Like Sinclair, the majority of people listed as credibly accused were never criminally prosecuted for the abuse alleged when they were part of the church. That lack of criminal history has revealed a sizable gray area that state licensing boards and background check services are not designed to handle as former priests seek new employment, apply to be foster parents and live in communities unaware of their presence and their pasts."
It's a difficult situation all around. People that aren't criminally convicted can't be kept from gainful employment, as far as I know.
All types of sexual abuse are difficult to prosecute and most abusers get away with it. (At least in this world.)
How long have Trump and P. Diddy have gotten away with sexual abuse? Decades.
That being said, the Dallas Charter isn't perfect. Humans will make mistakes but it's alot better than whatever similar organizations have in places like the public schools.
Christianity is not the issue - it's organized religion. I have disdain for the hypocrisy and the grift.
You're deep in the cult. I don't expect you acknowledge it. I do wonder if you will drink the kool-aid.
There's a huge coverup in the church with regard to sexual assault of minors and you want to blam law enforcement. JFC. This is exactly the hypocrisy I am talking about. Disgusting.
Not disagreeing that law enforcement and other authorities didn't help. I would say the dioceses also dropped the ball ... from the article. The fact that you think things got better in 2002 isn't quite how I would categorize it. The pushed things to the side and decided not to track things. And that was not by accident.
Most dioceses decided against naming priests, however. And with the dioceses that did release lists in the next few years — some by choice, others due to lawsuit settlements or bankruptcy proceedings — abuse survivors complained about underreporting of priests, along with the omission of religious brothers they believed should be on those lists.
And
The Pennsylvania diocese had never warned Oregon authorities about Sinclair because it stopped tracking him after he left the church. The diocese, which did not tell the public Sinclair had been accused of abuse until it released its list in August 2018, declined to comment on his case.
Acknowledge what?
I'm totally in agreement that some Christians are evil. Certainly. Same as every other group.
Most are good, though.
There would be no Christianity without "organized religion." There would be no Bible, sacraments, etc.
"Organized religion" isn't really a grift.
It's free to attend. I go for the Eucharist and Confession.
Then, hopefully, eternal bliss when I stroke out in a few decades.
I'm sure some in the Church bungled cases. Its unfortunate. There were huge lawsuits going on and that probably hurt exposure.
I hope justice is served at all levels.
I can do more good on the inside than the outside.
If I left Jesus because of Judas, I couldn't do any good.
That you're in a cult.Acknowledge what?
I'm totally in agreement that some Christians are evil. Certainly. Same as every other group.
Most are good, though.
There would be no Christianity without "organized religion." There would be no Bible, sacraments, etc.
"Organized religion" isn't really a grift.
It's free to attend. I go for the Eucharist and Confession.
Then, hopefully, eternal bliss when I stroke out in a few decades.
Agree - most are good. That's not the point.
Religion absolutely does not have to be organized if it's truly about individual faith. But it's not. It's about control and money and power. Thus, the grift.
Hook, line and sinker.
Maybe, but you have no power and never will. All the while you contribute to the structure that covers up these issues and promotes the hypocrisy. Just like with Trump supporters, you've been duped and you will go to your grave refusing to admit it.
Nah.
Jesus said we need a Church. He founded one.
Jesus said if we have disagreements, we should take it to the Church.
I'll expose any abuse I see.
Matthew 18:17 - If they still refuse to listen, tell it to the chu...
Matthew 18:17 If they still refuse to listen, tell it to the church; and if they refuse to listen even to the church, treat them as you would a pagan or a tax collector.... Read verse in New International Version
How can I expose abuse if I leave?? I can't.
I can only expose it if I'm on the inside. That's what I'll do.
I've been alone in rectories at night with priests dozens of times.
I have 911 at the ready.
Thanks for proving my point.Nah.
Jesus said we need a Church. He founded one.
Jesus said if we have disagreements, we should take it to the Church.
I'll expose any abuse I see.
Matthew 18:17 - If they still refuse to listen, tell it to the chu...
Matthew 18:17 If they still refuse to listen, tell it to the church; and if they refuse to listen even to the church, treat them as you would a pagan or a tax collector.... Read verse in New International Versionwww.biblestudytools.com
So are the only evil priests the ones who committed the acts, or are the priests who covered up for their brethren also evil?
You can't and won't regardless.
It's funny that you're claiming to be some sort of investigator as a justification.
Of course, I will.
If I ever see any abuse, I'll call 911 and will post about it on Hawkeye Beacon.
100%.
I'm going by the available data I posted.
Regardless, the clergy aren't the point of Church.
The sacraments are.
