Senior WH Officials: Trump wants to withdraw from NATO

[NoleATL]

Such short sightedness we have in the White House. Thats about a nicely as you can put it.

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/01/14/us/politics/nato-president-trump.html
Trump Has Discussed Withdrawing US From NATO
January 15, 2019 Donald Trump, Military


The New York Times reports:

There are few things that President Vladimir V. Putin of Russia desires more than the weakening of NATO, the military alliance among the United States, Europe and Canada that has deterred Soviet and Russian aggression for 70 years. Last year, President Trump suggested a move tantamount to destroying NATO: the withdrawal of the United States.

Senior administration officials told The New York Times that several times over the course of 2018, Mr. Trump privately said he wanted to withdraw from the North Atlantic Treaty Organization.

Current and former officials who support the alliance said they feared Mr. Trump could return to his threat as allied military spending continued to lag behind the goals the president had set.

 

[Tiny Hands Trump]

Definitely not a Russian stooge!

 

[FlickShagwell]

 

[Hawk_4shur]

Seriously, what possible benefit would this have to the US?

 

[binsfeldcyhawk2]

Fun fact...Article 5 has been invoked once by NATO.....in defense of the United States

On the evening of 12 September 2001, less than 24 hours after the attacks, the Allies invoked the principle of Article 5. Then NATO Secretary General Lord Robertson subsequently informed the Secretary-General of the United Nations of the Alliance's decision.

The North Atlantic Council – NATO’s principal political decision-making body – agreed that if it determined that the attack was directed from abroad against the United States, it would be regarded as an action covered by Article 5. On 2 October, once the Council had been briefed on the results of investigations into the 9/11 attacks, it determined that they were regarded as an action covered by Article 5.

By invoking Article 5, NATO members showed their solidarity toward the United States and condemned, in the strongest possible way, the terrorist attacks against the United States.

https://www.nato.int/cps/en/natohq/topics_110496.htm

 

[seminole97]

Fun fact...Article 5 has been invoked once by NATO.....in defense of the United States

On the evening of 12 September 2001, less than 24 hours after the attacks, the Allies invoked the principle of Article 5. Then NATO Secretary General Lord Robertson subsequently informed the Secretary-General of the United Nations of the Alliance's decision.

The North Atlantic Council – NATO’s principal political decision-making body – agreed that if it determined that the attack was directed from abroad against the United States, it would be regarded as an action covered by Article 5. On 2 October, once the Council had been briefed on the results of investigations into the 9/11 attacks, it determined that they were regarded as an action covered by Article 5.

By invoking Article 5, NATO members showed their solidarity toward the United States and condemned, in the strongest possible way, the terrorist attacks against the United States.

https://www.nato.int/cps/en/natohq/topics_110496.htm

So the only time it’s been invoked is so we could spends hundreds of billion dollars in Afghanistan, lose thousands more American (and allied) lives, kill god knows how many folks over there, to what end exactly?

That’s not a good selling point.

I want to withdraw from NATO because the Russia threat is a joke.

Read about how scared the Germans are of Russia: link

 

[Run&Blade]

I am all for it.

Pay to defend themselves.

 

[SL Hawk Fan]

Wonder if Trump's comments about withdrawing from NATO started before or after his private meeting with Putin where he took the interpreter's notes away and told him to not talk about the topics discussed.

 

[Nat Algren]

Seriously, what possible benefit would this have to the US?

A savings of $6.5 Trillion. In the past 18 years, there is not 1 country in the ME that is better off today after we invaded or bombed the crap out of them. How many millions of dead civilians will have to die before you get uncomfortable?

 

[Nat Algren]

Wonder if Trump's comments about withdrawing from NATO started before or after his private meeting with Putin where he took the interpreter's notes away and told him to not talk about the topics discussed.

He questioned its existence during the campaign.

 

[Hawkamania81]

I am all for it.

Pay to defend themselves.

Derp

 

[millah_22]

A savings of $6.5 Trillion. In the past 18 years, there is not 1 country in the ME that is better off today after we invaded or bombed the crap out of them. How many millions of dead civilians will have to die before you get uncomfortable?

Trump has already proved he doesn't care about saving trillions as he's already blown up the deficit.

 

[Run&Blade]

Interest the left talks about making college more affordable, forgiving student loans, cheaper healthcare, some argue for universal income and yet nothing seems to be able to be cut to pay for anything.

Be nice in a couple years to see how all the magic works. Going to take a hell of a lot more than the $100 a month I got from the trump tax cut.

 

[Hawkamania81]

Interest the left talks about making college more affordable, forgiving student loans, cheaper healthcare, some argue for universal income and yet nothing seems to be able to be cut to pay for anything.

Be nice in a couple years to see how all the magic works. Going to take a hell of a lot more than the $100 a month I got from the trump tax cut.

How about the joke tax scam giving Corporations Billions in cuts and guess what they did, bought back their own stock with $0 to us....Lets start by repealing that joke tax scam the GOPscum slammed through end of 2017 for starters.

 

[Nat Algren]

The NY Slimes is way behind the times. Of course Putin wants NATO weakened. They have encircled his country while the US has unilaterally withdrawn from nuclear treaties. NATO is a war-making machine that sucks trillions from US taxpayers into the coffers of Elites, who possess large positions in offense stocks. Instead of threatening earth and all of humanity, we could be building infrastructure, healthcare etc. in this country. Being the adversary has pushed Russia directly into the arms of China. No small feat. Those 2 countries are not pouring their money into the military. China is building infrastructure all over Africa, India and Russia. And Russia is happy to supply them with their $75 Trillion in natural resources. Russia is the geographical pivot and our leaders f'd up.

Turkey has flipped the bird at the US. India has too. KSA is playing both sides of the fence. There is a de-dollarization policy in place and you can thank our leaders for not applying soft power. Unfortunately, the next 70 years of this century will belong to China.

 

[Nat Algren]

Trump has already proved he doesn't care about saving trillions as he's already blown up the deficit.

Much like his companies. I agree.

 

[Titanhawk2]

Wow, 2016 revisited? I guess nothing really gets old for these people

 

[NoleATL]

I want to withdraw from NATO because the Russia threat is a joke.

Good job, comrade.

 

[Hawk_4shur]

A savings of $6.5 Trillion. In the past 18 years, there is not 1 country in the ME that is better off today after we invaded or bombed the crap out of them. How many millions of dead civilians will have to die before you get uncomfortable?

Uh, wut? I don't understand this, maybe because I am stupid. I guess you are saying that the US would not have "bombed the crap" out of ME countries if the US wasn't in NATO?

So, somehow the US has spent $6.5 trillion (that they otherwise wouldn't have) because they belong to NATO?

Oh, and BTW, the millions of dead civilians - that was a cheap shot.

 

[seminole97]

Oh, and BTW, the millions of dead civilians - that was a cheap shot.

Actually, the bombs and the vehicles that deliver them are really, really expensive.
And hey, we meant well, right?

 

[Nat Algren]

Uh, wut? I don't understand this, maybe because I am stupid. I guess you are saying that the US would not have "bombed the crap" out of ME countries if the US wasn't in NATO?

So, somehow the US has spent $6.5 trillion (that they otherwise wouldn't have) because they belong to NATO?

Oh, and BTW, the millions of dead civilians - that was a cheap shot.

Re: your 1st paragraph....it's not what I said, but, okay.

2nd paragraph: NATO members NEED war ...OR the threat of war. NATO is pissed in a huge way right now at NATO member, Turkey, because Erdogan dared to buy the S-400 defense system from Russia and not from our MIC. Think of it as a jobs program for Elites.

3rd paragraph: I stand by it. I'm certain you never thought of it that way. But, you need to. Dropping bombs does not bring peace. It creates more terrorists. Who benefits?

 

[Nat Algren]

Good job, comrade.

Ahhh. The child's argument to end arguments. Translation= you can't defend.

 

[Nat Algren]

So, if little shit Montenegro is attacked, the US has to buck up fat stacks and lose American lives? Sounds like a tight plan.

 

[seminole97]

Good job, comrade.

Can you explain the threat you perceive?

Russia's economy is smaller than Canada's, and the EU's is larger than the States'.
Russia's population is less than 1/3rd that of the EU members.
The EU also has nukes.

Meanwhile Germany's debt to GDP ratio has fallen over the last 5 years from 74.5% to under 64%, and they can't be bothered to spend enough to give their soldiers something besides brooms to drill with?

"the US spent more than $1,879 per capita in 2017. That's more than double its European allies. France spent $889 per capita, the UK spent $713 and Germany spent $539 per capita."

Can you explain to me why we're so much more afraid of the Russians than say, Germany?

 

[Nat Algren]

Can you explain the threat you perceive?

Russia's economy is smaller than Canada's, and the EU's is larger than the States'.
Russia's population is less than 1/3rd that of the EU members.
The EU also has nukes.

Meanwhile Germany's debt to GDP ratio has fallen over the last 5 years from 74.5% to under 64%, and they can't be bothered to spend enough to give their soldiers something besides brooms to drill with?

"the US spent more than $1,879 per capita in 2017. That's more than double its European allies. France spent $889 per capita, the UK spent $713 and Germany spent $539 per capita."

Can you explain to me why we're so much more afraid of the Russians than say, Germany?

Putin apologist, Kremlinologist, Comrade , Putin puppet. What else did I forget to mention?

 

[binsfeldcyhawk2]

So the only time it’s been invoked is so we could spends hundreds of billion dollars in Afghanistan, lose thousands more American (and allied) lives, kill god knows how many folks over there, to what end exactly?

That’s not a good selling point.

I want to withdraw from NATO because the Russia threat is a joke.

Read about how scared the Germans are of Russia: link

NATO has been mutually beneficial and basically kept the peace inEurope for over 70 years...no reason to get rid of it. If you want the European allies to pay more...fine. Negotiate it. To just junk it because president dipshit wants to fellate Putin isn’t a very good reason in my book.

 

[binsfeldcyhawk2]

So, if little shit Montenegro is attacked, the US has to buck up fat stacks and lose American lives? Sounds like a tight plan.

Hey comrade...figured you’d jump in. Amazing how you only show up when Putin’s interests are involved. GFY comrade and have a nice day.

 

[Hawk_4shur]

Re: your 1st paragraph....it's not what I said, but, okay.

2nd paragraph: NATO members NEED war ...OR the threat of war. NATO is pissed in a huge way right now at NATO member, Turkey, because Erdogan dared to buy the Su-400 defense system from Russia and not from our MIC. Think of it as a jobs program for Elites.

3rd paragraph: I stand by it. I'm certain you never thought of it that way. But, you need to. Dropping bombs does not bring peace. It creates more terrorists. Who benefits?

Let's start over. I asked what the benefit was to the US for pulling out of NATO. I'm not in favor of war or dropping bombs. Are you saying that our NATO alliance gets the US involved in conflicts that they otherwise wouldn't be or shouldn't be? I simply don't understand why you say that NATO members NEED war.

I am ready to be educated. But, I need more context.

 

[Nat Algren]

Hey comrade...figured you’d jump in. Amazing how you only show up when Putin’s interests are involved. GFY comrade and have a nice day.

How children debate.

 

[binsfeldcyhawk2]

Putin apologist, Kremlinologist, Comrade , Putin puppet. What else did I forget to mention?

That covers it comrade. Dosvedanya!!!!

 

[ChrisVarick]

Funny how hate for Trump can bring liberals to love the military industrial complex.

I'm no Trump supporter, but what are we getting for the money? Should NATO last forever? I don't think Russia is a military threat in the modern world. It wouldnt take NATO to stop their advances.

 

[binsfeldcyhawk2]

How children debate.

Whatever comrade.

 

[Nat Algren]

Let's start over. I asked what the benefit was to the US for pulling out of NATO. I'm not in favor of war or dropping bombs. Are you saying that our NATO alliance gets the US involved in conflicts that they otherwise wouldn't be or shouldn't be? I simply don't understand why you say that NATO members NEED war.

I am ready to be educated. But, I need more context.

It was set up as a collective defense against the Soviet Union. If I'm not mistaken, it collapsed and one third of their territory was lost. NATO has swallowed up how many Warsaw Pact members now? NATO needs Cold War 2.0. They need a threat to keep the flow of arms running to their bank accounts.

 

[Nat Algren]

Whatever comrade.

Pick up a coloring book or something, Sweetie. Stay within the lines.

 

[ConvenientParking]

So, if little shit Montenegro is attacked, the US has to buck up fat stacks and lose American lives? Sounds like a tight plan.

The US does not have to, but we'd be reneging and have to deal with the consequences (which we could survive but probably not to our benefit). NATO is a deterrent for those who'd try to attack Montenegro.

Anarcho-capitalist question - why is the existing governmental structure of the world not considered the market at work? At some point in the history of mankind, anarchy almost certainly ruled. Today, the marketplace of government (and some form of government would exist even in anarchy) has decided that the most efficient way for humans to get on is for these governments to exist.

 

[Nat Algren]

Funny how hate for Trump can bring liberals to love the military industrial complex.

I'm no Trump supporter, but what are we getting for the money? Should NATO last forever? I don't think Russia is a military threat in the modern world. It wouldnt take NATO to stop their advances.

Just read a great article on this.The libs today now cheer for the neocons.

 

[h-hawk]

Can you explain the threat you perceive?

Russia's economy is smaller than Canada's, and the EU's is larger than the States'.
Russia's population is less than 1/3rd that of the EU members.
The EU also has nukes.

Meanwhile Germany's debt to GDP ratio has fallen over the last 5 years from 74.5% to under 64%, and they can't be bothered to spend enough to give their soldiers something besides brooms to drill with?

"the US spent more than $1,879 per capita in 2017. That's more than double its European allies. France spent $889 per capita, the UK spent $713 and Germany spent $539 per capita."

Can you explain to me why we're so much more afraid of the Russians than say, Germany?

The US has obligations all over the world which Germany does not have. NATO has been a tremendous success allowing a generation of prosperity in Europe. And this is why the size of Russia's economy is not the major criteria to consider.

 

[Nat Algren]

The US does not have to, but we'd be reneging and have to deal with the consequences (which we could survive but probably not to our benefit). NATO is a deterrent for those who'd try to attack Montenegro.

Anarcho-capitalist question - why is the existing governmental structure of the world not considered the market at work? At some point in the history of mankind, anarchy almost certainly ruled. Today, the marketplace of government (and some form of government would exist even in anarchy) has decided that the most efficient way for humans to get on is for these governments to exist.

Is this a joke? NATO has encircled Russia. That's not a deterrent. It's an act of aggression.

 

[binsfeldcyhawk2]

The NY Slimes is way behind the times. Of course Putin wants NATO weakened. They have encircled his country while the US has unilaterally withdrawn from nuclear treaties. NATO is a war-making machine that sucks trillions from US taxpayers into the coffers of Elites, who possess large positions in offense stocks. Instead of threatening earth and all of humanity, we could be building infrastructure, healthcare etc. in this country. Being the adversary has pushed Russia directly into the arms of China. No small feat. Those 2 countries are not pouring their money into the military. China is building infrastructure all over Africa, India and Russia. And Russia is happy to supply them with their $75 Trillion in natural resources. Russia is the geographical pivot and our leaders f'd up.

Turkey has flipped the bird at the US. India has too. KSA is playing both sides of the fence. There is a de-dollarization policy in place and you can thank our leaders for not applying soft power. Unfortunately, the next 70 years of this century will belong to China.

Putin apologist.

 

[Hawk8595]

Have we started or participated in a war because of NATO? I don't remember going to the aid of one of the other members in an armed conflict. Every war we have been involved in was our decision.