Should college wrestling ADD a weight or two?

[EvilMonkeyInTheCloset]

I feel like college wrestling could benefit from the addition of a low 200s weight class.

There's so many elite athletes in the 200-225 range that wrestling could draw from and you wouldn't have such a disparity between your 197 guy and your Heavyweight.

I mean 197 lb guys typically look like undersized fullbacks that you wouldn't want to mess with, while most heavyweights outside your freak elite tier guys are your fat linemen who were good at wrestling but couldn't cut it as linemen in football.

There's no middle ground in the sport, while all the best athletes in the world typically fall in the 195-245 lb range.

So should college wrestling, at the very least, explore adding a 215-225 lb weight class?

And if you wanted to round it off so you have 12 starters on the roster, what other weight would you add?

Or would you prefer to cut a weight and keep it at 10?

What say the wrestleheads?..........

 

[Fan In Black]

us wrestleheads that are old enough already have seen more weight classes. And it was awesome.

 

[EvilMonkeyInTheCloset]

us wrestleheads that are old enough already have seen more weight classes. And it was awesome.

And?

 

[Fan In Black]

And?

I agree with you. It was better with more weights. But you cant fight Title 9

 

[EvilMonkeyInTheCloset]

I agree with you. It was better with more weights. But you cant fight Title 9

Title 9 is the reason they can't add 1 more scholarship weight to wrestling?







Then f*** Title 9.

 

[ZachJump]

I agree with you. It was better with more weights. But you cant fight Title 9

Add 2 weight classes for the men and 4 for the women...problem solved 😀

For Iowa at least

 

[The-Dude-Abides]

I'm all for adding something like 220, for a lot of the reasons you mention. That's 23 lbs above the previous weight but still 65 lbs more allowed above it.

Another benefit is it basically gets rid of the tiebreaker criteria for duals going down to dumb, irrelevant things. First criteria is currently most matches won including defaults and DQs, so that would decide it every time. No more going down to who scored the first takedown in the dual or least number of unsportsmanlike calls.

You could also keep the same 330 total number for NCAA qualifiers but cap it at 30 per weight class instead of 33. Get rid of the pigtail nonsense, 1 and 2 seeds get a bye, and it's nice and simple.

If moving to 11 weights is not feasible, I would prefer to cut out a middle-ish weight and bump it all up to allow a 220-type class. Something like: 125 (I think this is the right sweet spot for the lowest weight), 133, 141, 150, 160, 172, 184, 197, 220 and heavy. Basically kind of lose 165 and move 157 and 174 up/down a bit, which allows you to add 220. But I would much prefer going to 11 weights.

 

[EvilMonkeyInTheCloset]

I'm all for adding something like 220, for a lot of the reasons you mention. That's 23 lbs above the previous weight but still 65 lbs more allowed above it.

Another benefit is it basically gets rid of the tiebreaker criteria for duals going down to dumb, irrelevant things. First criteria is currently most matches won including defaults and DQs, so that would decide it every time. No more going down to who scored the first takedown in the dual or least number of unsportsmanlike calls.

You could also keep the same 330 total number for NCAA qualifiers but cap it at 30 per weight class instead of 33. Get rid of the pigtail nonsense, 1 and 2 seeds get a bye, and it's nice and simple.

If moving to 11 weights is not feasible, I would prefer to cut out a middle-ish weight and bump it all up to allow a 220-type class. Something like: 125 (I think this is the right sweet spot for the lowest weight), 133, 141, 150, 160, 172, 184, 197, 220 and heavy. Basically kind of lose 165 and move 157 and 174 up/down a bit, which allows you to add 220. But I would much prefer going to 11 weights.

Agree with everything, but again, I want to reiterate that adding a weight above 197 will significantly help the sport of college wrestling simply because of where HS athletes are now coming out of high school.

You could unlock a whole new class of athletes with a 215-225 lb class, and maybe even make that your feature weight with that class.

I'm just thinking of someone like Dreshaun Ross. He absolutely will have to wrestle Heavyweight in high school. But his size and length make him a currently lanky and smallish Heavyweight. He'd need to continue to add size/muscle to really be a dominant force at Heavyweight. And I'm not suggesting that he can't.

Just that how much easier would it be for him, health-wise, if he didn't have to strive for a heavier, bulkier body to fit into a Heavyweight mold, if he could stick with a 215-225-ish pound weight class throughout his career.

I just think it unlocks a style of athlete that would only serve to help the sport of college wrestling, as a whole, especially given the size and weight of modern young athletes (coming out of high school in particular) in 2024.

 

[93hawkeye]

Yes to a 220 weight class.
The alternative would be to keep 10 weight classes but space them apart better.
125, 134, 143, 152, 161, 171, 183, 198, 220, 285

 

[Pennstate1985]

I agree with you. It was better with more weights. But you cant fight Title 9

Why does Title 9 effect the number of weight classes? Add a weight or two and keep the scholly limit at 9.9. Teams already have 25-30 guys riding the pine every night under Title 9. Why not wrestle them more?

 

[bourbon n blues]

I'm all for adding something like 220, for a lot of the reasons you mention. That's 23 lbs above the previous weight but still 65 lbs more allowed above it.

Another benefit is it basically gets rid of the tiebreaker criteria for duals going down to dumb, irrelevant things. First criteria is currently most matches won including defaults and DQs, so that would decide it every time. No more going down to who scored the first takedown in the dual or least number of unsportsmanlike calls.

You could also keep the same 330 total number for NCAA qualifiers but cap it at 30 per weight class instead of 33. Get rid of the pigtail nonsense, 1 and 2 seeds get a bye, and it's nice and simple.

If moving to 11 weights is not feasible, I would prefer to cut out a middle-ish weight and bump it all up to allow a 220-type class. Something like: 125 (I think this is the right sweet spot for the lowest weight), 133, 141, 150, 160, 172, 184, 197, 220 and heavy. Basically kind of lose 165 and move 157 and 174 up/down a bit, which allows you to add 220. But I would much prefer going to 11 weights.

Your idea makes sense, but I think like you I would prefer 11 weight classes. Maybe just a little bit over 220 like 225?

When powerlifting first started it followed Olympic weightlifting weight classes, and I believe they went from 114 to 198 and then they went to heavyweight or super heavyweight. I forget what they exactly called it, but over the years they quickly added other weight classes. I think the first one was 242 but I could be wrong but eventually they went to 198 two 22,42, 275, 308 and superheavyweight.

In the USA PL they follow the Olympic weightlifting weight classes now which I have no idea what they are. But since we’re talking about College wrestling , I think a weight around 220 would be a nice solid weight which allows the bigger guys to have two classes.

And another bonus to agree with you a little bit more is potentially doing away with the tiebreaking criteria. I know we could probably still come up with a tie, but I think 11 weight classes would make it even less likely to go to that criteria rather than the points scored on the mat.

 

[Bosox2004]

Seems to me title 9 is already being mucked with but i digress.

I’d like 12 weight classes, one as the OP originally suggests and one more prior to 125.

While on the subject of wish lists I’d also like a dual championship , better access to tickets , more wrestling on espn . When I go to a college match I’d love to see the intermission a tad longer and be entertained with tiny tot wrestling . Like at a hockey game where you see the squirts falling all over the ice.

 

[Pennstate1985]

Seems to me title 9 is already being mucked with but i digress.

I’d like 12 weight classes, one as the OP originally suggests and one more prior to 125.

While on the subject of wish lists I’d also like a dual championship , better access to tickets , more wrestling on espn . When I go to a college match I’d love to see the intermission a tad longer and be entertained with tiny tot wrestling . Like at a hockey game where you see the squirts falling all over the ice.

Prior to 125? It seems to me that very few are career 125s now. Most migrate out after a couple years or have weight issues later in their careers if they stay 125. If 118, even fewer teams will be able to man that weight, and even fewer can be career 118s. I think 118 would give a black eye to the sport with the number of forfeits we may see, as I doubt you'd be able to have a spare 118 on hand in case of sickness/injury. I could be wrong there but that's my impression..

 

[DeangeloVickers]

Match the international weight classes more closely but add 6-10 lbs to the current 212/97kg -
57 kg (125 lbs)
61 kg (134 lbs) (non-Olympic class)
65 kg (143 lbs)
70 kg (154 lbs) (non-Olympic class)
74 kg (163 lbs)
79 kg (174 lbs) (non-Olympic class)
86 kg (190 lbs)
92 kg (203 lbs) (non-Olympic class)
97 kg (214 lbs)
125 kg (276 lbs)

 

[Grip220]

150% a GRIP 220lbs class should be added, come on now!

 

[smalls103]

no, it shouldn't.

we'd have 3 very mediocre weights instead of 2 solid ones.

the truth is, there's not enough quantity nor quality up there despite the seeming rise in 'tweeners'.

there really isn't that many of them.

overall, adding a weight (or multiple) would erode the lack of parity in the country even more.

and i promise you it would increase the likelihood of programs being dropped.

 

[Bones Malone]

It would seem something is needed between 197-285. Id be in favor of adding a 220 - 230 lb weight class or align more closely with the international weights.

 

[HawK + i]

My changes to college wrestling:

1) Add weight class between 197 and HWT, eliminate 149 (bump 141 up to 145, and 157 down to 155)
2) Reduce All-American status to top three at nationals (would entertain 2nd-team: 4th-6th, 3rd-team: 7th-9th)
3) Change reversal to 4 points (it always should have been escape + takedown)

I fixed college wrestling, you're welcome.

 

[MSU158]

no, it shouldn't.

we'd have 3 very mediocre weights instead of 2 solid ones.

the truth is, there's not enough quantity nor quality up there despite the seeming rise in 'tweeners'.

there really isn't that many of them.

overall, adding a weight (or multiple) would erode the lack of parity in the country even more.

and i promise you it would increase the likelihood of programs being dropped.

^^^^ x 100%!!

The participation numbers in High School tell a very clear story. If you added a weight between 197 and 285, DI alone would have a hard time filling it with talent. Now, imagine all the other divisions….

Look, I get that there are a few visible “tweeners” that would truly benefit from it, but they are much more rare than most of you think.

Lastly, High School has a weight in between and participation overall is still rather lacking. I can promise you that isn’t because kids aren’t wrestling because there isn’t a corresponding weight in college…

 

[MSU158]

My changes to college wrestling:

1) Add weight class between 197 and HWT, eliminate 149 (bump 141 up to 145, and 157 down to 155)
2) Reduce All-American status to top three at nationals (would entertain 2nd-team: 4th-6th, 3rd-team: 7th-9th)
3) Change reversal to 4 points (it always should have been escape + takedown)

I fixed college wrestling, you're welcome.

A for creative effort. F for it actually creating any benefit whatsoever.

1.) You would essentially be taking a weight class away from the deepest and most talented weight range there is. The simple truth is a large portion of high school wrestlers fall into that middle weight range. In fact, you would probably benefit more by stealing a weight class up high and adding another in the middle…

2.). The NCAA tournament is the single most difficult, grueling event there is at any level of wrestling. This isn’t to say that the level of wrestling compares to the Olympics, but that three day grind is unlike anything a wrestler would ever experience. Placing top 8 is an accomplishment that deserves the type of recognition it currently garners.

3.) I do think it should have the same value as a takedown so 3 would be good, but all 4 would do is incentivize the top guy to cut the bottom guy much more often as the benefit to riding would nearly disappear….

 

[el dub]

Seems to me title 9 is already being mucked with but i digress.

I’d like 12 weight classes, one as the OP originally suggests and one more prior to 125.

While on the subject of wish lists I’d also like a dual championship , better access to tickets , more wrestling on espn . When I go to a college match I’d love to see the intermission a tad longer and be entertained with tiny tot wrestling . Like at a hockey game where you see the squirts falling all over the ice.

We don’t need anything lighter than 125, imo. Far more kids are middle weights.

 

[Bones Malone]

I'm not so much worried about riding time simply because wrestling for the pin is what's needed to add excitement to the sport. I may be old school but it just doesn't seem like guys are wrestling for the fall. The 4 point reversal would most definitely de-incentivise mat wrestling and consequently the fall.

 

[EvilMonkeyInTheCloset]

^^^^ x 100%!!

The participation numbers in High School tell a very clear story. If you added a weight between 197 and 285, DI alone would have a hard time filling it with talent. Now, imagine all the other divisions….

Look, I get that there are a few visible “tweeners” that would truly benefit from it, but they are much more rare than most of you think.

Lastly, High School has a weight in between and participation overall is still rather lacking. I can promise you that isn’t because kids aren’t wrestling because there isn’t a corresponding weight in college…

Marketing.......

 

[MSU158]

Marketing.......

Don’t get me wrong. I would LOVE for college wrestling to be popular and profitable to the point we could have more weight classes. But, that simply isn’t the case.

Adding a weight class simply isn’t feasible under the current climate, but if it were to be done it should absolutely be in the middle were both quality and quantity is best represented…

 

[EvilMonkeyInTheCloset]

Don’t get me wrong. I would LOVE for college wrestling to be popular and profitable to the point we could have more weight classes. But, that simply isn’t the case.

Adding a weight class simply isn’t feasible under the current climate, but if it were to be done it should absolutely be in the middle were both quality and quantity is best represented…

Well then you're just gonna have to trust me, now aren't you............

You're welcome btw.

 

[WIP2001]

Eliminate 125. Add 220. The population of adult males with upper body strength that can make 125 is small and getting smaller every decade.

 

[EvilMonkeyInTheCloset]

Eliminate 125. Add 220. The population of adult males with upper body strength that can make 125 is small and getting smaller every decade.

There still needs to be a smaller weight class, even as a placeholder for younger wrestlers growing into their bodies.

Not to mention the fact that wrestling has always been a sport for the undersized athletes. (I could be meaner - and still factual - but I'm not gonna )

 

[MSU158]

Well then you're just gonna have to trust me, now aren't you............

You're welcome btw.

Trust you based on what data? Personal desire? What actual numbers begin to hint at the upper weight area having both the quality and quantity to mandate another weight class? It’s not like I don’t want it. I just don’t see any data that could convince the actual people that decide these things to even consider it…

 

[WIP2001]

There still needs to be a smaller weight class, even as a placeholder for younger wrestlers growing into their bodies.

Not to mention the fact that wrestling has always been a sport for the undersized athletes. (I could be meaner - and still factual - but I'm not gonna )

I agree on the need for high school. But they can migrate away from 125 at NCAA. Kids are getting taller and heavier whether through genes, diet, earlier specialization & training. If not, the future of 125 will be just freshman or extreme outliers on height.

 

[EvilMonkeyInTheCloset]

Trust you based on what data? Personal desire? What actual numbers begin to hint at the upper weight area having both the quality and quantity to mandate another weight class? It’s not like I don’t want it. I just don’t see any data that could convince the actual people that decide these things to even consider it…

I do, but I'm not sharing it here.

 

[Pennstate1985]

I agree on the need for high school. But they can migrate away from 125 at NCAA. Kids are getting taller and heavier whether through genes, diet, earlier specialization & training. If not, the future of 125 will be just freshman or extreme outliers on height.

The future is now IMHO. Sure you have the occasional senior, but it's getting rarer and many of those have trouble with weight and/or injury due to malnutrition.

 

[smalls103]

The future is now IMHO. Sure you have the occasional senior, but it's getting rarer and many of those have trouble with weight and/or injury due to malnutrition.

cool. let's see your data on this.

 

[Pennstate1985]

cool. let's see your data on this.

Since you seem to disagree, let's see your data refuting my statement. I'm not saying that there are no seniors wrestling and succeeding at 125, just that fewer of them seem to be doing so versus yesteryear without weight issues than at other weights IMHO. It is an opinion and maybe faulty memory but I'll own it. You can disagree with a better, more factual reply if you wish.

 

[Obviously Oblivious]

130 for the lightest class, squeeze the middleweights closer together while adding an additional weight somewhere in there, push the 197 to 205, add a 225/230 weight then make the HWT class unlimited, no cap.

 

[MSU158]

I do, but I'm not sharing it here.

And I saw a yellow bellied unicorn with a rainbow colored mane. I even took a picture of it. But, I’m not sharing it here…

 

[el dub]

I'm not so much worried about riding time simply because wrestling for the pin is what's needed to add excitement to the sport. I may be old school but it just doesn't seem like guys are wrestling for the fall. The 4 point reversal would most definitely de-incentivise mat wrestling and consequently the fall.

Four point reversal?

 

[el dub]

And I saw a yellow bellied unicorn with a rainbow colored mane. I even took a picture of it. But, I’m not sharing it here…

Did it shite skittles or is that just a myth?

 

[Bosox2004]

Prior to 125? It seems to me that very few are career 125s now. Most migrate out after a couple years or have weight issues later in their careers if they stay 125. If 118, even fewer teams will be able to man that weight, and even fewer can be career 118s. I think 118 would give a black eye to the sport with the number of forfeits we may see, as I doubt you'd be able to have a spare 118 on hand in case of sickness/injury. I could be wrong there but that's my impression..

I’m not sure I follow it wasn’t that long ago we had 118 and what was it 126 weight class . I don’t remember there being any such issue.

Is the main jist of what your saying the fact people are in general getting bigger and taller as the years go on. If that is indeed the case than I don’t think perception is reality . Men in the USA have on average gained in height .75 inches since the 60’s .

This stat if it to be believed actually amazes me as given the growth in our population during this timeframe a darn good percentage of people are from let’s say south of the border where the average height is 5.4 or 5.5 not 5.9 like it is here. And immigration During this time from places like China and other asian countries also seem like the numbers would prevent such a large increase so quickly.

But your comments along with others does make me think . If I could be convinced it was bad for the sport I wouldn’t want another weight class but I’m far from convinced.

We don’t need anything lighter than 125, imo. Far more kids are middle weights.

I respect opinions.

I could also say far more kids are middle weights than the heavy weights as well

 

[MSU158]

Did it shite skittles or is that just a myth?

I can neither confirm nor deny…

 

[Bones Malone]

Four point reversal?

Well, Dub….I thought I was in the thread discussing an increase in points for a reversal. It would appear I posted in the wrong thread. Perhaps it was all just a bad dream🤨? Going back to sleep now…