So... Spencer Lee

[JohnBasedow]

And looking at the rest of the roster, Midlands showed us why it is prudent for Warner to redshirt, for example. The same is not true for 125. But then, if Lee was preparing to go against MSU, why default at Midlands after the loss?

Knee injuries and reoccurances typically happen when the hamstring and the quad muscles are fatigued. he would have had to turn around a wrestle back about 25 minutes after the loss so it’s easy to see why he defaulted.

He is probably still getting back his endurance, especially in that injured leg.

 

[HKI]

Knee injuries and reoccurances typically happen when the hamstring and the quad muscles are fatigued. he would have had to turn around a wrestle back about 25 minutes after the loss so it’s easy to see why he defaulted.

He is probably still getting back his endurance, especially in that injured leg.

Good point. Winning would have allowed longer rest.

 

[bnicolls]

Same reason we FFT'd Hwt against Maryland, nothing to gain, everything to lose.

This

 

[ih8iast8]

Agreed. I didn't realize they could avoid scheduling Maryland, but I wouldn't advocate that either. It is the type of school that needs Iowa on the schedule. Even if it isn't good for Iowa, the blue bloods have to go far out of their way, imo, to keep interest for other programs in order to save the sport.

I don't think they can. My point was that if we are embracing this as entertainment (McD said Brands has been using this term a lot lately), then schedule some entertaining matches outside of the B1G.

 

[milehighhawkeye24]

Nothing to gain? Why have them wrestle anything more than the bare minimum to get to nationals then? Weak, pathetic. And specifically about that dual, it was the only real highlight of the entire night on paper, and let wrestling fans down.

Also, you'd be recommending that Sam not wrestle against MSU right?

The kid is coming off of major knee surgery- duals are much different than tournaments. Having to wrestle, rest, wrestle, rest, etc can be a bit much for a recovering knee. As was stated, nothing to win and everything to lose. I am sure his knee is fine, just not ready for the demands of a 3 day tournament. He was wrestling unattached and so what if he gets 3rd at midlands? I think Brands and Co made a good decision which was in the best interest of the athlete. That being said, I am still not sure I want to see the shirt pulled........however, it would make for a much more interesting season. If we pull his shirt, somebody needs to drop down to 133- Murin, Turk, Happel? and if PD comes in we need a 174 to step up:

Nationals projected lineup????
125-Lee
133- Laux (Murin, Turk ????)
141- Happel
149- Sorenson
157- Kemdog
165- The Bull
174- Gunther (Bowman or young?)
184- PDIII
197- Wilke
HWT- Stoll

 

[slammin74]

Can bowman even make 174??? He's wrestled all over the place weight wise so is it even a option????

 

[minnhawkeye]

Ok say it again.
This option to pull the shirt or not is the deceison of Lee and his family..

 

[JohnBasedow]

Can bowman even make 174??? He's wrestled all over the place weight wise so is it even a option????

Good point, he may not be able to. Maybe we should get a list of weight certs from Tom so we can help plan out the lineup more effectively.

 

[milehighhawkeye24]

Can bowman even make 174??? He's wrestled all over the place weight wise so is it even a option????

No idea? But if we pull Lee's shirt you would think we need to find some way to get at least a qualifier at that weight....we really can't afford having a completely open weightclass. I have been pleasantly surpried by a handful of wrestlers who have vastly improved this year- most notably Wilke and also think Bowman has looked better

 

[goiahawkeyes]

Let me start this back over. No hate, no vitriol, and certainly not towards Lee or the coaches. This was the post I replied to:



This, at the very least, implies that no wrestler left was worth SL's time, and therefore a waste to continue wrestling. That is a pathetic mindset, and I seriously doubt was the mindset of SL or the coaches.

As to your last paragraph, I think you've confused me with another poster and seriously misread my posts in this thread.

Dude,

First of all...take a breath. I NEVER said it wouldn't be worth Lee's time to wrestle on the backside. What I AM saying is that Spencer had nothing left to prove to himself or the coaches...who gives a shit what the fans were hoping to see. Midlands, for Lee, was a measuring stick, an opportunity to see how he felt/competed against a few quality wrestlers back-to-back. That turned out just fine. Lee mopped the mat with some good wrestlers. If he could have met up with Suriano...great, but once he fell to Bresser, Lee had nothing left to prove. I hope this clears things up so you no longer have to speculate on the mindset of the Iowa coaches and wrestlers.

 

[crablegs1]

This

Could someone expand on the logic here? What is to be gained by wrestling at the Midlands at all? And, if something is to be gained by wrestling at Midlands, where does that stop? If something is gained by wrestling rounds 1 through 3, why nothing in round 4? If round 4 is the finals, vs the consis, is it different? This explanation needs more detail because it just doesn't make sense.

 

[bnicolls]

The kid is coming off of major knee surgery- duals are much different than tournaments. Having to wrestle, rest, wrestle, rest, etc can be a bit much for a recovering knee. As was stated, nothing to win and everything to lose. I am sure his knee is fine, just not ready for the demands of a 3 day tournament. He was wrestling unattached and so what if he gets 3rd at midlands? I think Brands and Co made a good decision which was in the best interest of the athlete. That being said, I am still not sure I want to see the shirt pulled........however, it would make for a much more interesting season. If we pull his shirt, somebody needs to drop down to 133- Murin, Turk, Happel? and if PD comes in we need a 174 to step up:

Nationals projected lineup????
125-Lee
133- Laux (Murin, Turk ????)
141- Happel
149- Sorenson
157- Kemdog
165- The Bull
174- Gunther (Bowman or young?)
184- PDIII
197- Wilke
HWT- Stoll

I like this lineup.

Need: Laux, Murin, Turk, Happel, Gunther, Young, Bowman to step up and make a: wild, long haired, hippy, rock & roll run at 33/41/74!!!!

 

[JohnnyHandsome]

What I AM saying is that Spencer had nothing left to prove to himself or the coaches.

So if Spencer won in the semi's, he'd have wrestled Suriano to prove something? Come on, theres no way he MFFs that finals, is there? Then why the consy's? Shouldnt protecting his knee trump a match vs Suriano?

Unless there was an injury or concern, he should have kept going. He gave no indication during the Bresser match he was injured,,, Ditto in his post match presser that I saw.

By the way, wasnt UNI his measuring stick against multiple opponents. If I recall after that tournament, Spencer said his knee was good as new

 

[WWDMHawkeye]

Could someone expand on the logic here? What is to be gained by wrestling at the Midlands at all? And, if something is to be gained by wrestling at Midlands, where does that stop? If something is gained by wrestling rounds 1 through 3, why nothing in round 4? If round 4 is the finals, vs the consis, is it different? This explanation needs more detail because it just doesn't make sense.

See John Basedow's post above.

 

[PSUer1989]

That is my point, I agree. I think you've misread my post, or at least my intentions. What he did at State in hs proves his mettle and opinions on wrestling.

I hope Lee goes... great for the sport! But, as he is a PA boy, it is “What he did at States...”

 

[milehighhawkeye24]

So if Spencer won in the semi's, he'd have wrestled Suriano to prove something? Come on, theres no way he MFFs that finals, is there? Then why the consy's? Shouldnt protecting his knee trump a match vs Suriano?

Unless there was an injury or concern, he should have kept going. He gave no indication during the Bresser match he was injured,,, Ditto in his post match presser that I saw.

By the way, wasnt UNI his measuring stick against multiple opponents. If I recall after that tournament, Spencer said his knee was good as new

I am sure the knee if fine- but as I stated it can get tight and swell a little bit with the amount of wrestling in a 3 day tournament....if he would have won it would have been a bit more "meaningful" to continue to wrestle for the title. He lost (thought he got reverasal) and therefore why risk anything as unattached wrestler....I like the decision

 

[goiahawkeyes]

So if Spencer won in the semi's, he'd have wrestled Suriano to prove something? Come on, theres no way he MFFs that finals, is there?"

No, I doubt he would have MFF'd that match. Suriano would have been another opportunity to see how he measures up against top notch guys. Not so much the case on the backside of the bracket in my opinion.

By the way, wasnt UNI his measuring stick against multiple opponents. If I recall after that tournament, Spencer said his knee was good as new

What I said was "an opportunity to see how he felt/competed against a few quality wrestlers back-to-back."

I'm not trying to make this a pissing match. I don't have the answers as to why Spencer didn't wrestle the backside of the bracket...these are my thoughts. This needs to be a celebration...Spencer Lee could be making his debut....and that's F'ing awesome!

 

[MVPFAN]

Could someone expand on the logic here? What is to be gained by wrestling at the Midlands at all? And, if something is to be gained by wrestling at Midlands, where does that stop? If something is gained by wrestling rounds 1 through 3, why nothing in round 4? If round 4 is the finals, vs the consis, is it different? This explanation needs more detail because it just doesn't make sense.

No one owes you an explanation.

 

[HKI]

No one owes you an explanation.

That applies to this entire board and every single thread.

No one here is questioning Lee or his heart or will to wrestle. I, for example, and questioning the mindset (that I find pathetic), that somehow the opponent, and perceived lack of quality/pedigree decides whether it is "worth it" to wrestle. I sincerely doubt Tom, Terry, Spencer, Gable, or anyone else in Iowa history feels that way.

 

[HKI]

This needs to be a celebration...Spencer Lee could be making his debut....and that's F'ing awesome!

What does he have to prove against MSU's 125 lber?

 

[HAWKS8302]

Who would you have liked to see him wrestle on the backside. Nothing left to prove at Midlands in my opinion. Lee is going to be just fine.

So if you drop to the backside you’re automatically suppose to forfeit the rest of the tournament?

 

[HKI]

I am sure the knee if fine- but as I stated it can get tight and swell a little bit with the amount of wrestling in a 3 day tournament....if he would have won it would have been a bit more "meaningful" to continue to wrestle for the title. He lost (thought he got reverasal) and therefore why risk anything as unattached wrestler....I like the decision

I am quoting this to have it side-by-side with the response above. There are probably all sorts of good reasons for the decision, and I have full faith in those making those decisions. Defaulting because of the perceived lack of quality of opponent wasn't likely one of them.

 

[SPOONER]

HKI is trying wayyyyy too hard.

 

[HKI]

Ok say it again.
This option to pull the shirt or not is the deceison of Lee and his family..

FWIW this thread is not challenging that idea, not in any post I've seen.

 

[HKI]

HKI is trying wayyyyy too hard.

Ok then, I'll back out. I'm obviously not the only one who read @goiahawkeyes post that way, and I'm still convinced there is no other way to read it. But, I feel like I've put my point out there, and clarified it enough that it shouldn't confuse anyone in to thinking I'm calling out coaches or questioning Lee, because I quite clearly am not.

 

[moug]

If you "have full faith in those making those decisons" why can't you just let this go? What is it you are looking for?

 

[HKI]

If you "have full faith in those making those decisons" why can't you just let this go? What is it you are looking for?

Read my posts. I'm not questioning the decision, I called out one specific poster for what I thought was a pathetic mindset. All posts, and all questions of mine thereafter were directed at that mindset, none other. The question I did have, about defaulting and wrestling MSU was pretty well answered by a few posters, especially about the quick turn-around for consis vs. rest for championship.

 

[HKI]

Remember, this was my first post:

Or does it do the opposite? Even putting aside the astonishing hopes that anyone, let alone any super stud, will ever go undefeated again, if you were to believe he might, doesn't this remove the pressure, win conferences, win titles, who cares about single losses?

Kyle Snyder is on pace (still a long ways to go) to be greatest American wrestler of all time by accolades, yet has lost. Nobody, not even Cael, should ever have undefeated demands placed on them.

 

[Gebmo]

You guys are thinking too much. No question about Spencer's toughness or desire. I'm sure he wants to go every time. What might have been if he had won doesn't matter.

Joel Embiid is through a decent amount of the season and I've see him go over 35 minutes (when needed....limit is supposed to be 25), but he is still not going back to back games even though it has hurt the Sixers and fans wanted to see him.

Spencer might have with the tough match hit the Dr's limit. If Spencer had won they MAY have pushed it a little to go ONE extra match. Who knows the thinking? You can bet it is logical and in the best interests of Spencer and the team though.

You don't get too many guys like Embiid or Spencer. Therefore they will carefully build him up to be at his best in March (assuming he goes).

 

[pablow]

See John Basedow's post above.

Here it is. Seems very, very likely he had a match limit at the Midlands. But, Handsome Johnny and company are irredeemable morons, so I don't expect any change in direction here.

"Knee injuries and reoccurances typically happen when the hamstring and the quad muscles are fatigued. he would have had to turn around a wrestle back about 25 minutes after the loss so it’s easy to see why he defaulted.

He is probably still getting back his endurance, especially in that injured leg."​

 

[HKI]

You guys are thinking too much. No question about Spencer's toughness or desire. I'm sure he wants to go every time. What might have been if he had won doesn't matter.

Joel Embiid is through a decent amount of the season and I've see him go over 35 minutes (when needed....limit is supposed to be 25), but he is still not going back to back games even though it has hurt the Sixers and fans wanted to see him.

Spencer might have with the tough match hit the Dr's limit. If Spencer had won they MAY have pushed it a little to go ONE extra match. Who knows the thinking? You can bet it is logical and in the best interests of Spencer and the team though.

You don't get too many guys like Embiid or Spencer. Therefore they will carefully build him up to be at his best in March (assuming he goes).

Just speaking personally, my thoughts and questions weren't about whether he should/shouldn't go, but about the OP topic - whether he will actually be freed. My thought was no, because he wouldn't have defaulted if he knew he was going, but now I'm rethinking that based on posts in here. I'm predicting he won't be freed, and will be brought along slowly, behind the scenes.

 

[Rustys Dad]

I'm excited to see Lee in an Iowa singlet. Kid is a special talent. If he's on the mat then that means he is good to go. Honestly, there's no point in "saving" a kid like this for anything. There are no guarantees a kid can't get injured at any point in his career. If he's healthy enough to be on the mat ... and if he's the best in your weight room at his weight ... then let him rip!

 

[Multi-Hawk]

You guys are thinking too much. No question about Spencer's toughness or desire. I'm sure he wants to go every time. What might have been if he had won doesn't matter.

Joel Embiid is through a decent amount of the season and I've see him go over 35 minutes (when needed....limit is supposed to be 25), but he is still not going back to back games even though it has hurt the Sixers and fans wanted to see him.

Spencer might have with the tough match hit the Dr's limit. If Spencer had won they MAY have pushed it a little to go ONE extra match. Who knows the thinking? You can bet it is logical and in the best interests of Spencer and the team though.

You don't get too many guys like Embiid or Spencer. Therefore they will carefully build him up to be at his best in March (assuming he goes).

Just speaking personally, my thoughts and questions weren't about whether he should/shouldn't go, but about the OP topic - whether he will actually be freed. My thought was no, because he wouldn't have defaulted if he knew he was going, but now I'm rethinking that based on posts in here. I'm predicting he won't be freed, and will be brought along slowly, behind the scenes.

Rethink again. He's free.

 

[HKI]

Rethink again. He's free.

Then color me excited!

 

[rossel 33]

Just speaking personally, my thoughts and questions weren't about whether he should/shouldn't go, but about the OP topic - whether he will actually be freed. My thought was no, because he wouldn't have defaulted if he knew he was going, but now I'm rethinking that based on posts in here. I'm predicting he won't be freed, and will be brought along slowly, behind the scenes.

yes... you've made your point and you clarified it

now, why don't you "back out," as you said you would before adding 5 more posts.

 

[Neo_Hawk]

Remember, this was my first post:

I really liked your first post. I think the posts after that were taking something the wrong way, perhaps. I think John in post 41 does a good job at clarifying why they might pull him out of the tourney.

So if you drop to the backside you’re automatically suppose to forfeit the rest of the tournament?

If you're being worked in to the rotation gradually after knee surgery AND because you lost you now have to wrestle 40 minutes after your last match AND you are not attached so your points don't count anyway? YES, you forfeit the rest of the tournament.

Being on the backside means you will now have to wrestle twice as many matches as you originally planned. This is already the most you have wrestled in almost a year, against the best competition you have ever wrestled in folkstyle. What's to be gained by staying in it vs. what's the possible downside?

 

[hawknut]

If his kneeIs not healthy enough to wrestle a full Midlands tournament, he should be redshirting.

 

[JohnnyHandsome]

What does he have to prove against MSU's 125 lber?

Whats he have to prove by wrestling anyone not ranked in the top 5 then? Its a silly point.

You wrestle who's in front of you or else all the top wrestlers would only wrestle each other.

I suppose it would be nice if Coach or someone commented on the reason why, would probably make all this speculation disappear... and dont say we're not owed an explanation.. no, we're not but then dont get bent with anyones speculation from one extreme to the other,,, Its a 2 way street

 

[Multi-Hawk]

If his kneeIs not healthy enough to wrestle a full Midlands tournament, he should be redshirting.

Disagree. Another 60+ days of just meet wrestling is a good idea before BIG tourney.

 

[319hawkfan]

This whole “issue” about not wrestling in the consy’s is ridiculous. Who cares. In the grand scheme of his career it does not matter. He and the coaching staff saw what they needed to see. Period. Maybe TNT are listening to all of the geniuses on the internet and not grinding their guy into the dirt. Maybe TNT realize the importance of SL to the program and are not gonna chance anything on a mid season tournament when the goal is a tournament in March.