Exactly. If the relationships were consensual so be it. IMO, it lacks professionalism and can lead to all kinds of problems. Let this be a lesson kids: Don't hang your fishing line in corporate waters.
....so theres some ugly stuff floating around about Mark Perry
- Thread starter The Vak
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Exactly. If the relationships were consensual so be it. IMO, it lacks professionalism and can lead to all kinds of problems. Let this be a lesson kids: Don't hang your fishing line in corporate waters.
So all consenting interactions originating in a workplace start with sexual harassment from the person in a supervisory position?
Look, I have no clue if Perry is innocent or not. But, simply having sexual relations with a 100% willing wrestler in no way guarantees he is guilty. Maybe more comes out to prove it either way, but I have read NOTHING so far that says he is guilty of anything other than poor judgment and infidelity…
That's the problem of a relationship with a professional power imbalance. There's no way to know for certain, and especially in a coach-athlete situation, which is para-parental in nature. If you are feeling a sexual attraction to an athlete you are coaching, you need to stop coaching that athlete immediately. The athlete (typically the less powerful party) will inherently feel pressure to say yes. If they say no, will the coach retaliate? Will they get lower quality coaching?
To be clear, I am by no means defending him. I just don’t think there is nearly enough info so far to even begin to make a fair and impartial decision.
Unlike the majority on the internet, I like to reserve judgment until I actually get enough info to do so…
I don’t have to wait for any more information. Trust me, there’s plenty of it.
And I have passed judgment with that information.
Feel free to share. If not, don’t expect us to simply take you at your word…
Anyone ever hear of Duke Lacrosse? Caveat Emptor.
Dude, you are pretty messed up in the head. Seriously what the hell would even make you think of something like this. Fricken weirdo.
It’s the equivalent of Mark Perry sleeping with one of his athletes. Obviously they aren’t, it’s just a question.
Settle down there Francis
Do you understand the equivalency or are you just an emotional weakling?
No it's not dingleberry. The equivalent would be Dan Dennis hooking up with one of the ladies on the HWC. Nice try dip shit.
Settle down, Francis...now that's some funny shit! Hilarious movie!!
Tom is a HWC coach and Spencer is a HWC athlete, correct? Nice try dumb a$$
Bad example by GabledaGOAT...and yes, way too soon...
Not the example I would use but your logic is sound...I guess. That said, I'm still laughing about the Francis comment!! F'ing priceless!!! LMAO!!
It was for shock value of course but still valid
My dad and I watch it every time we hangout, hilarious movie and pretty apt timing
You can shake your head, do the hokey pokey and spin yourself around for all I care. The point is simple, either back up your stance with facts or back away.
When it comes to the internet, plenty of people post like they know more and DO NOT. In this case, you just simply expect people on here to take your word? Would you do the same if the role was reversed???
I just think you are weird. No emotions involved.
Perry wasn't in the majority of SKWC women's corners. He didn't corner Parrish, Miracle, Kilty, Howk, or Gomez. Maroulis didn't wrestle.
He only cornered Blades and Forrest. That is abnormal for him.
There is definitely *something* going on whether you want to believe it or not.
He only cornered Blades and Forrest. That is abnormal for him.
There is definitely *something* going on whether you want to believe it or not.
Again, all I have heard so far is that they had a consensual relationship. I have yet to hear otherwise. The relationship itself doesn't mean anything to me employment wise, and definitely not legally, as long as there weren't/aren't clear rules against it in his contract.
So, to me, this hinges upon 2 things:
1.) Was she 100% willing, and even more importantly, WANTING the relationship.
2.) Are there rules against it? If so, where are they listed and were they clearly presented to Mark at some point?
Now, a subset of this could be whether or not the relationship(s) caused a hostile work environment. If that did show up at some point, why? Who was the root cause? What was done to stop it at that point? I could definitely see that being the big part of what happened. If so, assuming no clear rules exist, I don't necessarily see it as a fireable offense, but some clear training would need to be done to make sure nothing like it happens again...
I don't think anyone here thinks "nothing" is going on. We just aren't automatically jumping on the bandwagon that Perry is "evil" and the sole cause of the problem...
If allegations are true, I think his problems are linked to “Power Inbalance”.
100% prohibited
https://championwomen.org/wp-conten...-Policies-and-Boundaries-updated-2020-2-1.pdf
1. SEXUAL CONTACTS OR “ROMANTIC” RELATIONSHIPS BETWEEN AN ATHLETE AND A PERSON WHO HAS A POSITION OF POWER OVER THE ATHLETE ARE PROHIBITED.
a. “Person with a position of power” includes coaches, administrators, judges, referees, employers, staff, medical personnel, and even volunteers or older athletes and teammates.
b. U.S. Center for SafeSport’s flat prohibition on sexual contact covers children who are under the age of 18. Sexual contact with a child is also prohibited under criminal law; it is a felony and consent is no defense.
c. For those in positions of power, this flat prohibition also includes an athlete that is 18 years old or older, and the athlete “consents” to sexual or romantic contact.
You might be the only person in the world that doesn't know that this kind of relationship is strictly forbidden. Good lord.
So, it looks like his job is terminable based on this definition:
K. Power Imbalance A Power Imbalance may exist where, based on the totality of the circumstances, one person has supervisory, evaluative, or other authority over another. Whether there is a Power Imbalance depends on several factors, including but not limited to: the nature and extent of the supervisory, evaluative or other authority over the person; the actual relationship between the parties; the parties’ respective roles; the nature and duration of the relationship; the age of the parties involved; whether there is an aggressor; whether there is a significant disparity in age, size, strength, or mental capacity. Once a coach-Athlete relationship is established, a Power Imbalance is presumed to exist throughout the coach-Athlete relationship (regardless of age) and is presumed to continue for Minor Athletes after the coachAthlete relationship terminates until the Athlete reaches 20 years of age. A Power Imbalance may exist, but is not presumed, when an Intimate Relationship existed before the sport relationship (e.g., a relationship between two spouses or life partners that preceded the sport relationship).
And then this rule based on the definition above:
1. Intimate Relationship An Adult Participant violates this Code by engaging in an intimate or romantic relationship where a Power Imbalance exists. An Intimate or Romantic relationship is a close personal relationship—other than a familial relationship—that exists independently and outside of the sport relationship. Whether a relationship is intimate is based on the totality of the circumstances, including: regular contact or interactions outside of or unrelated to the sport relationship (electronically or in person), the parties’ emotional connectedness, the exchange of gifts, ongoing physical or intimate contact or sexual activity, identity as a couple, the sharing of sensitive personal information, or intimate knowledge about each other’s lives outside the sport relationship.
To me, this doesn't make him necessarily bad. Just stupid and thinking with the wrong head...
What about cheating on his wife? Can you wrap your head around that being morally bad?
Happens ALL the time in work environments. Hell, MANY of them end up married with kids. Consensual relationships is the part that matters to me.
Can you read all of my responses before being a dick in your response? Go back and look and you will clearly see, I called him an asshole. But, that doesn't mean a cheater should lose his job. Again, if ALL people that cheated(men and women) had to lose their job as a result, there would be a LOT of unemployed people...
This isn't co-workers. This is coach-athlete. Don't move the goalpost.
Consensual doesn't matter in this instance and Mark knew/knows it.
Don't assume I moved any goal posts. I am talking about management with an employee...
Editted to add: Throughout, I did clearly say that if there are clear rules in place governing against it, then he would have to deal with the consequences. However, I did say that consent, makes the punishment considerably different and SHOULD...
Hence why I compared it to if Spencer & Tom had a consensual relationship. We all know that’s wrong, just like Mark & any athlete having a relationship. It’s just common sense
No. It shouldn't. For one very simple reason. The rule is in place because the term "consent" just doesn't really apply and ALL victims need to be protected and know that there will be firm punishments.
It's a nuanced conversation and our nation is currently wrestling with this particular ill, but basically, there's just no way to determine "consent" in a relationship of this manner. So for coaches, it really needs to be hard line. We have rules in place for the prevention of crimes/bad behavior and protection of "victims."
Obviously this will happen in the future and until the end of time. But punishments ARE a great deterrent. Leaving little wiggle room also helps prevent crimes. Hey coaches - you have an intimate relationship with a player - zap. Period.
When you spend that much time together, your interests align(meaning you are attracted to each other), and you are consenting adults, this stuff happens a ton in work environments.
You just don't get it happening in wrestling because men coaching women is still pretty new overall. Even then, I would bet there have been other cases that simply werent' reported.
Look, I NEVER ONCE said it was a good decision. I just am not the kind of guy that immediately looks to throw the book at someone for making a dumb decision. Because, let's be crystal clear, in NO WAY has anything been reported that he did anything REMOTELY criminal. That has been my main point throughout...
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Again, I have no issue with the rule and hope he clearly knew about it to start. Is there anything listed that says what the sanction/punishment would be for such an action?
Also, as far as consent goes, there are PLENTY of ways to determine consent. Hell, do we know for certain she didn't start the relationship? There are a LOT of assumptions on here. Meanwhile. all I was saying was that I wanted to see more clearly defined information before taking a stance.
With what I have read so far, I agree that he violated a clearly defined code of conduct. Beyond that, I still see nothing criminal. So, is there a precedent on how to deal with it? Is it an automatically terminable offense?
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