Solar + BESS

[Phenomenally Frantastic]

Solar panel prices fell by over 50% in 2023

This year saw record-breaking solar output and a 'momentous shift’ in battery production.

www.euronews.com

“A record year for solar power​

China, Europe and the US each set solarinstallation records for a single year, according to the International Renewable Energy Agency (IEA).

China's additions dwarfed those of all other countries, at somewhere between 180 and 230 gigawatts, depending on how end-of-the-year projects turn out. Europe added 58 gigawatts - a 40 per cent growth from 2022.

Solar is now the cheapest form of electricity in a majority of countries. Solar panel prices fell a whopping 40 to 53 per cent in Europe between December 2022 and November 2023 and are now at record lows.


“Particularly in Europe, it’s been really at breakneck speed of scaling up the deployment,” says Michael Taylor, senior analyst at the International Renewable Energy Agency (IRENA).“

 

[RicoSuave102954]

It is easy for people who are ignorant of just how the marvel of a reliable grid is achieved to feel good about including seemingly “free” energy from the wind and sun. Given the way we are inundated with dishonest accountings of their true costs, this is understandable. There are certainly places where they should be used. But as part of a grid where the priority is reliability first, and affordability second, the less these unreliable sources pollute and parasitize the reliability of our grid, the better.

Since solar batteries store the excess energy generated by your solar panels, they are essential to your solar panel system. However, they can be costly depending on the type and size of the battery. For instance, a single lead-acid battery can cost between $200 and $800, while a residential lithium-ion solar system can cost $7,000 to $14,000.

 

[billanole]

My oldest kid is a junior in high school, and he plans to study engineering with a focus on renewable energy and/or battery technologies. There's a lot of upside.
1) He thinks that it's important to address climate change.
2) It's a growing industry, and will continue to grow for the foreseeable future.
3) Undercutting the market for fossil fuels is the best way to neuter authoritarian regimes in Russia and the Middle East.
I wish I would have known what I wanted to do when I was 17.

You go, young mt!

 

[Phenomenally Frantastic]

It is easy for people who are ignorant of just how the marvel of a reliable grid is achieved to feel good about including seemingly “free” energy from the wind and sun. Given the way we are inundated with dishonest accountings of their true costs, this is understandable. There are certainly places where they should be used. But as part of a grid where the priority is reliability first, and affordability second, the less these unreliable sources pollute and parasitize the reliability of our grid, the better.

Since solar batteries store the excess energy generated by your solar panels, they are essential to your solar panel system. However, they can be costly depending on the type and size of the battery. For instance, a single lead-acid battery can cost between $200 and $800, while a residential lithium-ion solar system can cost $7,000 to $14,000.

 

[Old_wrestling_fan]

I’ll be building next fall with hvac/plumbing/electric going in November time frame. I plan to do solar panels with battery, but haven’t looked hard into options or set up yet. Going to go as electric as possible.

That is shaping up to be our time frame too. ^^ Minimally, I will install PEX in the floors with the notion that I will one day implement solar. Whether it is right away or in the future when the technology matures and the costs come down, etc, I do not know yet. But I will have the "infrastructure" installed in place when the timing is right.

 

[Hawk_82]

@Hawk_82 thoughts my brother?

What’s it like learning that you’ve been lied to for thirty+ years by bad actors?

That’s got to sting a little.

This is not new news and it doesn't change my opinion, although I have taken it into consideration.

In the future you will learn that the climate change being pushed today is more political than it is an environmental reality. We are not having a climate emergency (this narrative is just used to create fear) and we will be just fine even if/when the temps increase 3 degrees.

I want a clean environment and i support reducing pollution.

I believe climate is way more complex than a simple co2 percentage. Up to this point, we have not been able to accurately predict future climate, much less weather.

I do not think large scale wind and solar are the answer, nor do I think cows are bad for the environment and electric cars are not much if any better when wou factor in the production and waste.

What I do know, is that the use of fossil fuels has allowed us to live a better life than if we didn't have fossil fuels.

Here is an interesting piece on co2.

 

[Hawk_82]

Likely true for most homes. I would think the OP tweet anecdote was primarily referring to industrial scale projects energy generation and battery storage.

The costs of industrial scale solar panel installations and batteries have come down like 90% in 10 years and they are still dropping. Other energy sources soon may not be able to compete on costs.

There are unintended consequences for everything, do you know what the unintended consequences of large-scale wind, solar, and batteries will be? Some issues have been published, but they admittedly don't know all the impacts this will have.

I personally don't like the environmental impact of seeing solar panels and wind farms all over the place. I think it looks ugly and if I prefer nature to remain beautiful.

 

[B1GDeal]

If you’re looking at it as ROI, you’re doing it wrong. Solar saves you money day 1. Your utility rates go up by double digit percentages every year. Without exception this is true. Why do you think the utilities fight tooth and nail against 1:1 net metering? If you have 1:1 net metering in your state, and you have good sun exposure on your house, do yourself a solid and go solar. I’m telling you guys, it’s gonna save you serious money.

What he said. In addition, if you do sell, not in the house long-term, you will still get $ back on the transaction by having it installed.

 

[B1GDeal]

There are unintended consequences for everything, do you know what the unintended consequences of large-scale wind, solar, and batteries will be? Some issues have been published, but they admittedly don't know all the impacts this will have.

I personally don't like the environmental impact of seeing solar panels and wind farms all over the place. I think it looks ugly and if I prefer nature to remain beautiful.

I personally don't mind panels or wind farms vs the nasty smoke stacks that used to be all over. Their is a reason we have moved away and will keep moving away from old tech/fuel sources. Not sure why some want to hold onto the past unless you own coal or oil companies.

 

[joelbc1]

Likely true for most homes. I would think the OP tweet anecdote was primarily referring to industrial scale projects energy generation and battery storage.

The costs of industrial scale solar panel installations and batteries have come down like 90% in 10 years and they are still dropping. Other energy sources soon may not be able to compete on costs.

Installed solar about a year ago...activated in March. Don’t forget, there is a 30% tax credit for installation. A lot depends on where you get your electricity. Here in Polk (Iowa) the provider seems pretty progressive and “solar friendly.” I have been told by some that other electrical suppliers are not as easy to work with.
Get estimates! Sizeablr price differentials depending on installer. We went with installer who has an agreement with Polk, Madison and Dallas counties and the rate you receive fit you generated electricity depends on how many others sign on. After 10 months, we noticed a significant electrical $$ saving, especially in summer months...when we run the AC and the pool pump (24/7).
Right now, the only negative is with all the snow if the past past week, we are not generating ang electricity because the the panels are covered with snow.

 

[RicoSuave102954]

Al Gore is back at Davos again planning for what you can drive, cook with, even what you can eat - Yet - In 2021, the Arctic sea ice extent was 4.72 million square kilometers, about 11 percent more than the 4.16 million kilometers in 2007, according to NASA’s estimates.*

 

[Sharky1203]

Ever wonder why the Government has been pushing the solar and windmills?

Who controls the electrical grids? That might answer a lot of questions.

 

[Joes Place]

Given the way we are inundated with dishonest accountings of their true costs, this is understandable.

Given the way you are inundated with dishonest accountings of the true costs of burning fossil fuels, your position here is entirely predictable.

 

[Joes Place]

This is not new news and it doesn't change my opinion

Of course it doesn't

You've been lied to for so long, you can no longer change your opinion when you learn about it.

 

[Joes Place]

Up to this point, we have not been able to accurately predict future climate, much less weather.

Absolutely false.

Climate predictions based on CO2 increases have been incredibly accurate.

I offered you a bet a month ago, that noon-time temperatures in Phoenix, AZ would be higher than noontime temperatures in Des Moines, Iowa on 1/15/24. I cannot predict the "weather" in either location. I can easily predict the "climate".

You would not take that bet.

 

[Joes Place]

There are unintended consequences for everything, do you know what the unintended consequences of large-scale wind, solar, and batteries will be?

A stable climate. And elimination of the leverage that authoritarian regimes have over the world's energy supply.

Both just "horrible" things, to you.

 

[Phenomenally Frantastic]

Ever wonder why the Government has been pushing the solar and windmills?

Who controls the electrical grids? That might answer a lot of questions.

I think you are confusing “pushing” with incentivizing.

why do you believe the government is incentivizing away from dirty energy sources that the government has to deal with in the form of dirty water, dirty air, and poor health outcomes, costing taxpayers Billions in hidden unintended externalities to dirty fuel sources?

Maybe governments have become incentivized to reduce the harm and billions in liabilities caused by dirty energy sources perchance? Could that be it?

 

[Phenomenally Frantastic]

The state of California has filed a sweeping climate lawsuit against Exxon Mobil, Shell, BP, ConocoPhillips, and Chevron, as well as the domestic oil industry's biggest lobby, the American Petroleum Institute.

The suit, filed on Friday in San Francisco Superior Court, claims that the companies misled the public for decades about climate change and the dangers of fossil fuels. It demands the companies help fund recovery efforts related to California's extreme weather events, from rising sea levels to drought and wildfires, that have been supercharged by human-caused climate change.

"Oil and gas companies have privately known the truth for decades — that the burning of fossil fuels leads to climate change — but have fed us lies and mistruths to further their record-breaking profits at the expense of our environment. Enough is enough," Rob Bonta, California's attorney general, said Saturday in a statement.

 

[Sharky1203]

I think you are confusing “pushing” with incentivizing.

why do you believe the government is incentivizing away from dirty energy sources that the government has to deal with in the form of dirty water, dirty air, and poor health outcomes, costing taxpayers Billions in hidden unintended externalities to dirty fuel sources?

Maybe governments have become incentivized to reduce the harm and billions in liabilities caused by dirty energy sources perchance? Could that be it?

Money and power. Same as everything the government gets involved in.

 

[desihawk]

Al Gore is back at Davos again planning for what you can drive, cook with, even what you can eat - Yet - In 2021, the Arctic sea ice extent was 4.72 million square kilometers, about 11 percent more than the 4.16 million kilometers in 2007, according to NASA’s estimates.*

i admit that i lol-ed. but seriously are those numbers in text and gif true?

 

[Phenomenally Frantastic]

Money and power. Same as everything the government gets involved in.

Somewhat true unintentionally. The “government” has to pay Billions in environmental clean up and excess health care costs due to lying fossil fuel corporations. They pass this excess cost on to YOU in the form of higher taxes.

So yes this is about money.

Now that the government wants to hold the lying fossil fuel companies responsible for the damage they have done and the lies they have proliferated, you and others object? Why?

 

[Joes Place]

i admit that i lol-ed. but seriously are those numbers in text and gif true?

Cherry-picking.

Nearly every year since 2011 has been below the bottom quartile (bottom 25%) for Arctic Sea Ice.

Charctic Interactive Sea Ice Graph

How to use CharcticDeveloped at NSIDC with support from NASA, the Charctic Interactive Sea Ice Graph enables users to more easily access and explore the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Ad

nsidc.org

You have to go back about 20 years to find anything remotely close to the 1981-2010 median ice extent.
The last year we were above the 1981-2010 median was 2001.

 

[the24fan]

Solar and batteries will absolutely dominate. As the technology matures and the cost of battery storage comes down you’re going to see it more and more. Currently our battery attachment rate with solar is around 10%. We expect it to double this year and it’s already trending that way. If anyone has any questions on what batteries are capable of and what brands are the best I’m more than happy to help.

id be interested in solar. Im in S. Minnesota.
Any intial thoughts?

 

[Sharky1203]

Somewhat true unintentionally. The “government” has to pay Billions in environmental clean up and excess health care costs due to lying fossil fuel corporations. They pass this excess cost on to YOU in the form of higher taxes.

So yes this is about money.

Now that the government wants to hold the lying fossil fuel companies responsible for the damage they have done and the lies they have proliferated, you and others object? Why?

Who said I object. I object to the government being involved in much of anything.

Why isn't anyone holding the government responsible for the damages they have done and the lies they have proliferated, why do you object to that?

 

[joelbc1]

Who said I object. I object to the government being involved in much of anything.

Why isn't anyone holding the government responsible for the damages they have done and the lies they have proliferated, why do you object to that?

I think “the government” has plenty of liabilities and lawsuits going right now. But all complaints regarding “the governnent@ are legit, however .

 

[Sharky1203]

I think “the government” has plenty of liabilities and lawsuits going right now. But all complaints regarding “the governnent@ are legit, however .

They screw a lot of stuff up.

 

[joelbc1]

They screw a lot of stuff up.

As we all do, Sharky. Remember the “the government” is “we the people”…it is not some mysterious evil force over which we have no control.
The government also gets a lot of things right. Because the purpose of our government is to help us citizens if the United States form a more perfect union.

 

[Sharky1203]

As we all do, Sharky. Remember the “the government” is “we the people”…it is not some mysterious evil force over which we have no control.
The government also gets a lot of things right. Because the purpose of our government is to help us citizens if the United States form a more perfect union.

You are correct "we the people". Somewhere they forgot that.

Sorry but if a company f's up they get held accountable in one form or another. If the government screws up, 20 years later we get a "my bad, sorry".

Iraq war for example. Lots of people died and billions spent. Ops our bad.

 

[joelbc1]

You are correct "we the people". Somewhere they forgot that.

Sorry but if a company f's up they get held accountable in one form or another. If the government screws up, 20 years later we get a "my bad, sorry".

Iraq war for example. Lots of people died and billions spent. Ops our bad.

We fought in Iraq because of our need for oil. On tge other hand, this “government” of/by/for the people has created the most prosperous nation in the history of the world. Warts and all…..

 

[Sharky1203]

We fought in Iraq because of our need for oil. On tge other hand, this “government” of/by/for the people has created the most prosperous nation in the history of the world. Warts and all…..

That's a miss conception. I think we were there for the war machine to make money. People like the Cheney's and other politicians and private rich a-holes.🤷

 

[Hawk_82]

Absolutely false.

Climate predictions based on CO2 increases have been incredibly accurate.

I offered you a bet a month ago, that noon-time temperatures in Phoenix, AZ would be higher than noontime temperatures in Des Moines, Iowa on 1/15/24. I cannot predict the "weather" in either location. I can easily predict the "climate".

You would not take that bet.

Please show me one model that will accurately predict the climate in 20 years.

I can predict the climate, it will be between 2 degrees colder or 2 degrees warmer in 20 years. Do I deserve an award now?

 

[Joes Place]

Please show me one model that will accurately predict the climate in 20 years.

I can show you ones from 2020 that are fully accurate out to now.

Same thing.

 

[Joes Place]

I can predict the climate

Then take my $1M bet:

The noon time temperature in Phoenix, AZ will be warmer than the noon time temperature in Des Moines, Iowa on 1/31/24.​

If you think my "climate prediction" will be wrong, take my bet.

 

[SolarHawk]

id be interested in solar. Im in S. Minnesota.
Any intial thoughts?

Do you have 1:1 net metering? If you do it’s a no brainer. Be sure to get at least 3 quotes. I can review any proposals you get and provide feedback. My email is in this thread.

 

[HawkInDC]

Cherry-picking.

Nearly every year since 2011 has been below the bottom quartile (bottom 25%) for Arctic Sea Ice.

Charctic Interactive Sea Ice Graph

How to use CharcticDeveloped at NSIDC with support from NASA, the Charctic Interactive Sea Ice Graph enables users to more easily access and explore the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Ad

nsidc.org

You have to go back about 20 years to find anything remotely close to the 1981-2010 median ice extent.
The last year we were above the 1981-2010 median was 2001.

If you love forums....and I know we all do . This is another great resource. Great community.

2024 Arctic Sea ice area & extent data - Arctic sea ice - Arctic Sea Ice : Forum

2024 Arctic Sea ice area & extent data - Arctic sea ice - Arctic Sea Ice : Forum

forum.arctic-sea-ice.net

This is the most recent update from the community there. This year is doing decently well so far in terms of ice extent, but the decadal decline is quite apparent and it quite apparent in the yearly rankings .

 

[the24fan]

Do you have 1:1 net metering? If you do it’s a no brainer. Be sure to get at least 3 quotes. I can review any proposals you get and provide feedback. My email is in this thread.

I’m not sure . I’m not familiar with it at all. What’s 1:1 metering? I guess I’d like to find one that doesn’t require a big initial down payment. I don’t have huge house. Maybe 1400 sq ft.

 

[Hawk_82]

Then take my $1M bet:

The noon time temperature in Phoenix, AZ will be warmer than the noon time temperature in Des Moines, Iowa on 1/31/24.​

If you think my "climate prediction" will be wrong, take my bet.

I'd like to think you realize there is a difference between climate change and the average temp in AZ vs IA. But I'm not sure if you really understand.

 

[Hawk_82]

I can show you ones from 2020 that are fully accurate out to now.

Same thing.

There is 1 major problem here, climate change is not defined by 4 years. But I would still be interested in seeing the model you are talking about. Maybe this will be the one to prove me wrong.

Please give 1 model, not a bunch averaged together. Averaging them together means they can't figure out a way to do it right with 1.

 

[Phenomenally Frantastic]

Battery 90% cost decline since 2014 and still more to come. Oh and this dude casually predicted the future 10 years out in 2014.



3 years early too.

 

[Phenomenally Frantastic]

Lithium is everywhere. As a species, we have barely looked for it.

Thailand walks back claim of large lithium discovery

Key EV battery material found in country's south, but amount in question

asia.nikkei.com

This find a year ago in India made them the 5th largest known deposit in the world. Only 5.9 million tons.

India has found a major deposit of lithium, suddenly making it a major player in batteries and EVs

The Indian government announced on Thursday, Feb. 10 that 5.9 million tons of lithium, a crucial mineral for the manufacturing of electric vehicles and solar panels, had been discovered in the provinces of Jammu and Kashmir.

finance.yahoo.com