Soy still hasn't come to grips with the Davis firing. No one will ever live up to his mediocrity in Bean's eyes. .
Soybean o soybean....
- Thread starter hawkland14
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This. x10.
Basically, Bean said the season can go one of two ways from this point... we can learn and grow or fold. It was a mere observation, nothing more and nothing less.
The only point that is controversial is the 2nd part you highlighted. I don't think the ice was getting thin after the ISU loss, however, if Iowa stumbled through the remainder of the season and missed the NCAA tournament, I do think the ice would have been getting thin. He said in the second sentence that Fran "has earned, and will be given, another season...", therefore, he's not advocating Fran be fired if the current season ended in a disaster, nor is he saying Fran couldn't change the direction of the team in 2016/2017, even if the current season went south.
I think the Bean critics are every bit as guilty of the overreaction they are charging him with.
I disagree with you it wasn't gut check time. Iowa has had a rap (which the N. Fla coach even stated) as being a mentally weak team when things started to go bad for them. Fran isn't trusting his bench more, they are just playing better so earning more minutes. Uhl didn't deserve more minutes earlier in the season as he was playing terrible on both ends of the court.
What they've shown in these two post ISU games, is not to hang their heads and quit when things go badly for them. They also did a much better job of handling the press, showing much more confidence and less rattled in dealing with the press at the end of the game. Jok seems to be much more engaged on the defensive end of the court and rebounding. Uthoff has become much more assertive. Gesell has stopped taking outside shots. All of these things are growth and I think stem, at least in part, from the learning process after the ISU loss.
I honestly appreciate the posters who took the time to actually read my post about the ISU game and were willing to consider the idea that it might be a watershed event in the 2015/16 season. Many thanks to those that tried, largely in vain, to explain what my position honestly was.
As you can gather from many of the threads above I ruffled many feathers years ago by being an adamant supporter of Tom Davis and ridiculing the idea of Steve Alford taking Iowa to "The Next Level". I also did myself no favors on this board by being lukewarm to Licklighter even though he was a national COY before arriving in Iowa City. When I was challenged by some to say loudly upfront how I felt about Fran I was forced to take a wait & see approach because I knew virtually nothing about him and his coaching style...that got me accussed of not being onboard with Iowa Basketball. One guy even charged me with being a Cyclone plant on the Hawk board.
I have come to accept that otherwise reasonable, and obviously intelligent, posters on this board are carrying longstanding resentments and grievances against me because of those previous unpopular stances and that I'm often seen today as a divisive figure in that regard by many greybeards who have contributed to this site and its predecessor, the old Big Ten Fan Forum.
I have also come to understand that my support for Kirk Ferentz on the football board last spring & summer has added fuel to the fire of my detractors, even though there are still a few old timers that recall I orginally prefered Bob Stoops over Kirk and was highly critical of Bob Bowlsby for that whole hiring process fiasco.
In any event, even though I will admit that when someone misrepresents my position I can still become agitated, for the most part I let this and other message board storms roll off my back. I will have nothing to add to this thread going forward.
GO HAWKS!
As you can gather from many of the threads above I ruffled many feathers years ago by being an adamant supporter of Tom Davis and ridiculing the idea of Steve Alford taking Iowa to "The Next Level". I also did myself no favors on this board by being lukewarm to Licklighter even though he was a national COY before arriving in Iowa City. When I was challenged by some to say loudly upfront how I felt about Fran I was forced to take a wait & see approach because I knew virtually nothing about him and his coaching style...that got me accussed of not being onboard with Iowa Basketball. One guy even charged me with being a Cyclone plant on the Hawk board.
I have come to accept that otherwise reasonable, and obviously intelligent, posters on this board are carrying longstanding resentments and grievances against me because of those previous unpopular stances and that I'm often seen today as a divisive figure in that regard by many greybeards who have contributed to this site and its predecessor, the old Big Ten Fan Forum.
I have also come to understand that my support for Kirk Ferentz on the football board last spring & summer has added fuel to the fire of my detractors, even though there are still a few old timers that recall I orginally prefered Bob Stoops over Kirk and was highly critical of Bob Bowlsby for that whole hiring process fiasco.
In any event, even though I will admit that when someone misrepresents my position I can still become agitated, for the most part I let this and other message board storms roll off my back. I will have nothing to add to this thread going forward.
GO HAWKS!
Agreed completely with this. I think they were more interested in furthering their agenda than they were in actually understanding an observation.
And, I think most of those posters actually bring some great value to the board. I think there is a place for both the optimists and those who may be critical at times. The good news is we are making the tournament this year and making a run at the BIG title so I'm more worried about losing Fran to a blue blood than I am losing him Lickliter style.
I for one didn't know we were revisiting the Dr. Tom thing! But that does explain quite a bit. Like how my evaluation of coaching records by year caused the uproar it did a few weeks ago. It must still hurt Dr. Tom supporters that his last ten seasons can be looked at in terms of barely .500 Big Ten ball.
Maybe that is why a loss to Iowa State could cause a flashback and if one coach could be let go, than certainly another can! And 0-1 is 0-1 at and that moment Iowa was 0-1 in it's last game and that must mark a pattern.
As I mentioned, it explains quite a bit. But still doesn't make sense. The defense of "thin ice" is simply taffy pulling. A show.
And here's the thing. This is a viewpoint. Neither right, nor wrong. It is a taste of the Chili entered into the cook-off and sorry but I found the flavor unappealing. And so did others. That, is fact.
Maybe that is why a loss to Iowa State could cause a flashback and if one coach could be let go, than certainly another can! And 0-1 is 0-1 at and that moment Iowa was 0-1 in it's last game and that must mark a pattern.
As I mentioned, it explains quite a bit. But still doesn't make sense. The defense of "thin ice" is simply taffy pulling. A show.
And here's the thing. This is a viewpoint. Neither right, nor wrong. It is a taste of the Chili entered into the cook-off and sorry but I found the flavor unappealing. And so did others. That, is fact.
And others were fine with a simple observation. If Fran had not made the tournament this year and next I don't think it is unrealistic to think he would have been on "thin ice." That being said, it's water under the bridge at this point.
What I don't like the taste of is how you seem to not look upon favor on Dr. Tom. Am I reading that wrong or can I get a clarification of your opinion of him?
I love Fran but Dr. Tom did a lot of things that Fran still has yet to accomplish even if you only count the last ten years of Dr. Tom's tenure. Both are really good coaches though.
By dang now we're getting somewhere. You are dead on right, some folks have no problem with the "thin ice" thing, some do. Those that don't, fine. But those that do, fine as well. It doesn't mean there is some big conspiracy or folks out to get soybean. I for one think that after five years of improvements there is no reason to be worrying about thin ice after one loss, even if it did stink. But that's just me.
Now as to Dr. Tom. (First off, I say again, AHHA, so that's what this is about.
) You are right, there are many things about the Dr. Tom years which were not satisfying to me, and one of them was the insistence that we look at his overall record when his best years were a decade old. No boss on the planet evaluates an employee based on what he did a decade past. And it doesn't take a statistics degree to know that.That's just for starters. This could get long and longer still. And we're not going to settle anything. And I award you the ultimate "victory" of many years of sucky basketball after Dr. Tom was let go. I won't argue, it turns out we should have let the guy coach until he retired. But don't think I mean that in the same circumstances I wouldn't support trying someone new, again.
I would think every Hawkeye fan would be happy that we've finally got a good coach and things are getting better. But I can't help but get the feeling there are some who behave like, "You got rid of our guy...now we get to do it." And there...no! Thin ice? No! Not after one loss to Iowa State by one point no matter how it went down. And that's what the post said. Not a year from now. Not the end of this season. Not the end of next year.
soybean's post SAID: "But the ice is getting thin in Iowa City." Read it again Srams, those are the last nine words of the post.
By dang now we're getting somewhere. You are dead on right, some folks have no problem with the "thin ice" thing, some do. Those that don't, fine. But those that do, fine as well. It doesn't mean there is some big conspiracy or folks out to get soybean. I for one think that after five years of improvements there is no reason to be worrying about thin ice after one loss, even if it did stink. But that's just me.
Now as to Dr. Tom. (First off, I say again, AHHA, so that's what this is about.
That's just for starters. This could get long and longer still. And we're not going to settle anything. And I award you the ultimate "victory" of many years of sucky basketball after Dr. Tom was let go. I won't argue, it turns out we should have let the guy coach until he retired. But don't think I mean that in the same circumstances I wouldn't support trying someone new, again.
I would think every Hawkeye fan would be happy that we've finally got a good coach and things are getting better. But I can't help but get the feeling there are some who behave like, "You got rid of our guy...now we get to do it." And there...no! Thin ice? No! Not after one loss to Iowa State by one point no matter how it went down. And that's what the post said. Not a year from now. Not the end of this season. Not the end of next year.
soybean's post SAID: "But the ice is getting thin in Iowa City." Read it again Srams, those are the last nine words of the post.
It's funny that you feel that way about Dr. Tom yet love Fran. I really like both for the record. Now to address your post.
-You mention that you shouldn't be evaluated on something that happened a decade ago and I agree. However, although his best years were early on, his last four years the Hawks finished 4th, 2nd, 5th, and 3rd in the BIG with a sweet sixteen in his final year. That's a great four year run for not being his early years. Fran hopefully can do that but that is a damn good record and he has a long way to go to equal Dr. Tom.
- Secondly, in regards to Bean's post. I didn't write it, but I do find it convenient how you only use the last words. I took it in the context of the post. I'm not going to argue semantics about a post I didn't write. I had no issue with it and you did. That's fine.
I seldom resort to this, but, whatever srams. We've got a game to watch tonight and then nine long days until the next one.
So, you can't defend Dr. Tom's actual record? My guess is you didn't think it was that good.
I'm ready for the game. Let's go Hawks!
Bean was just being like that guy last year or the year before that said we wouldn't win another game after Boise State.
DanL going off the rails, again.
What's kind of funny about this issue. I disagreed, at the time, with Bean regarding Davis and Alford. I had no problem with the firing of Davis as I thought the program needed a change. I didn't support the "firing" (I know he quit but they were getting ready to fire him) of Alford as I thought he had some bad breaks and had the program moving in the right direction when he was fired. I understood why people were upset Davis got fired and a lot of people didn't like Alford. I disagreed with many of Bean's comments about Alford, but mostly agreed with him about Lick.
So, it's interesting I'm defending Bean since I've been at odds with his evaluation of the 2 prior coaches in question. There's nothing wrong with people disagreeing with Bean's premise, there is something wrong when people deliberately misrepresent his position, which is what most of the critics did.
I happily agree with your earlier point that the beauty of all this talk is that it looks like it's moot. Barring an unforeseen collapse, this team is headed to the NCAA tournament and could finish in the upper tier of the B1G this season. It has the possibility to be every bit as enjoyable and satisfying season as the football season this year. All of us, yes, even people, like myself, who aren't hesitant to critique Fran or players, are fans of the Hawkeyes who want to see Iowa win. I know some people here think we are closet Clone fans, or secretly root against the Hawks, but that isn't the case. We all want the Hawks to win and celebrate when they have success.
I didn't take the time to read Bean's initial post but from what I'm gathering he said we can either be good or bad the rest of the way. Riveting shit.
Since we are rehashing old Soybean posts, how about the time he claimed to see Bigfoot and then repeatedly stuck to that story when ridiculed about it?
It's also hilarious to see him label himself as a Ferentz supporter when a few years ago he prominently posted a thread titled "I am officially done with the KF era" after a tough loss. But now after a 12-0 regular season he conveniently tries to sneak in a humble brag about how he stuck with KF amidst all the criticism last year.
He'll be back with another basketball post if the Hawks hit a rough stretch in the Big 10.
It's also hilarious to see him label himself as a Ferentz supporter when a few years ago he prominently posted a thread titled "I am officially done with the KF era" after a tough loss. But now after a 12-0 regular season he conveniently tries to sneak in a humble brag about how he stuck with KF amidst all the criticism last year.
He'll be back with another basketball post if the Hawks hit a rough stretch in the Big 10.
thanks for the post...I tried not to go there....but give him credit..he fooled some people.
There's a lot of new found Ferentz lovers this year. Hypocritical in most cases. I'm going to reserve any commentary on KF until after next season. His track record following great seasons with high expectations usually fizzle. Fran has been a breath of fresh air to a decade long stale program. Love Fran, appreciated Davis, loathed Alford and repressed Lickliter.
Answer this, do you think the ice is getting thin under McCaffery? Answer this, should it have been getting thin at any point in this season?
You can call me cherrypicker if you want but I'm not the poster that got so inflamed in the buttocks as to claim the ice was getting thin under McCaffery. Of course now we know why, he's just stuck defending a coach who hasn't been here in almost 20 years!!!
For the record: loved, adored Tom Davis.
Loathed Alford, but not initially, as i gave him a chance (what other choice did I have?).
Supported Lickliter, as I saw him as "not Alford". Eventually, it was quite apparent that he lacked any leadership or coaching or relationship building skills, whatsoever.
Am fully in Fran's court. Good things seem to happen, even with "fallback" options. It's an exciting style of basketball.
Loathed Alford, but not initially, as i gave him a chance (what other choice did I have?).
Supported Lickliter, as I saw him as "not Alford". Eventually, it was quite apparent that he lacked any leadership or coaching or relationship building skills, whatsoever.
Am fully in Fran's court. Good things seem to happen, even with "fallback" options. It's an exciting style of basketball.
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