If the gesture actually meant something genuine to the people shaking hands, I would agree with you. The % of time that is actually the case after a wrestling match or any other time the gesture is forced, is pretty low.
Strib’s take on Gard-Howard scuffle
- Thread starter HawkNorth
- Start date
LOL! I'm certain I know more about it than you do and somehow never had a problem.
You probably aren't aware, but all Sports have rules for Unsportsmanlike conduct, like some have stated "probably for a reason". Uuummmm yeah.
I attempted to educate you, as unlikely as that may be, my work here is done. The rest is on you, good luck.
To be fair, Howard was one of the Fab Five who was not accused of taking "loans" from Ed Martin.
Sure it is, go ahead and give me the analytics on "genuine" handshakes after Wrestling matches. LOL!
I’ve met a lot of “experts” of the past couple of years on these message boards. We have experts on the economy, politics, epidemiology, virology, and now….handshakes. I’m glad these master courses in everything are available for free right here on HR.
As Bondhawk stated, - contrived, fake, forced, phony "sportsmanship" that accomplishes virtually nothing. It's similar to the pretend sportsmanship exhibited by beauty pageant finalists who feign happiness for the other contestant who is announced as winner. Awkward and disingenuous.
I don't have a problem with the handshake line following a contest but let's not pretend that the participants are engaging in genuine sportsmanship. They are walking down a line and touching palms with opponents while mumbling insincere jibberish because an authority has mandated they do so.
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By the time Howard grabbed Gards shirt Gard had already taken ahold of Howards elbow and stepped in front of Howard. That elevated the situation into what happened. When Howard said "I'll remember this" Gard should have said Okay or have a nice day and walked on. Someone gets in your face while you're mad anyone will react
the same way. Gard is responsible for 50% of the altercation. Hence the fine.
Howard got what the Big 10 thought he should deserve. I felt he should not be able to coach the rest of the year, but I have no say in the matter.
Did the surgery on Howard’s elbow go well? I hope that tough Chicagoan recovers. Ts&Ps.
no, but he was sued by 2 women for giving them herpes.............
Doesn't matter now because the University of Wisconsin basically said they were all good....
Neither. He got fined because Howard escalated the situation into a brawl by taking a swing.
If it had ended as an impassioned argument, where people needed separated, but no physical altercation occurred, there would have been no fine.
Absolutely silly to end the postgame handshake. These men and that's what they are should be expected to be able to maintain their composure long enough to shake hands. My God. It's less than a minute.
Heck how do you think UCLA felt when in 1974 they lost to Notre Dame in the NCAA tournament breaking their 7 year winning streak. keep in mind they blew an 11 point lead in the last couple of minutes. They were mature enough to take the loss and not allow their emotions to take over. Of course there coach was John Wooden who was the epidemy of class and it was a time when people believed that there was a definable right and wrong way to do things. unlike today where everyone has their own truth.
We will just disagree on % of fault. Gard touched Howard to stop Howard to have an argument.
JH is 49 years old, leaders of programs should not act the way he did, nor should anyone assume that another coach can't control his emotions and therefore will fight anyone who dares have a verbal argument with him. This isn't the playground. #whenkeepingitrealgoeswrong.
Every time you are confronted you want to throw hands? Especially in front of thousands of witnesses? Are you typing this from jail?
I think there is a place in this game for the handshake. If a player or coach can't control his anger issues shaking hands we have issues. I really dislike Fran's take on ending the handshake. Yes its a symbolic gesture, we have a lot of routines that have been created. I personally like the handshake.
As to the situation, I have no idea how Gard got off with only fine. I am fine with the punishment Howard got, I also would have been fine with him getting fired. You can never swing or hit an opposing player or coach or your own player or coach. Gard also laid his hands on Howard and instigated the issue. Nothing occurs if Gard just moves on. As to the assistant coach, honestly he was the true instigator of the melee and he got nothing . . . ???? Honestly I don't get what the big 10 did in this situation. If I was in charge, 1 game fine for Gard 2 games for Wisconsin assistant coach and I think I have Howard fired. Howard will be fired at some point for not controlling his temper.
A huge mess overall.
As to the situation, I have no idea how Gard got off with only fine. I am fine with the punishment Howard got, I also would have been fine with him getting fired. You can never swing or hit an opposing player or coach or your own player or coach. Gard also laid his hands on Howard and instigated the issue. Nothing occurs if Gard just moves on. As to the assistant coach, honestly he was the true instigator of the melee and he got nothing . . . ???? Honestly I don't get what the big 10 did in this situation. If I was in charge, 1 game fine for Gard 2 games for Wisconsin assistant coach and I think I have Howard fired. Howard will be fired at some point for not controlling his temper.
A huge mess overall.
Please he barely touched him. I see coaches di the same thing all the time...
No r4eal evidence and a lot of sour grapes from guys like Bobby Knight .
Don't know for sure as it was not explained. My opinion is he took ahold of Howards arm and stepped in front of him to confront Howard. It will never come out why and I think you know that. Maybe your opinion is for what the assistants did.
I like the way you think. Or as some posters might say, "U rite good."
I would think the Assistants would have gotten their own fine had the league office determined what they did was worthy of action.
Well your mind is made up......
Therefore, we will keep the post-game handshake across sports at all levels because it bothered you enough to make an argument for why it wasn't necessary.
Good luck!
The thing that he’s saying but not saying is not just arrogance, but something bordering on racism, if not outright racism.
I looked up gard’s résumé. I was unable to find that he actually had ever played Division I basketball. He’s more like a pudgy strategist. And he coaches his players to be the dirtiest in basketball. I’ve said elsewhere that I have zero respect for the guy. I can’t believe that there haven’t been more serious injuries from the way that he coaches his players to play, and then defends them, which is an exercise in Orwellian BS that is reminiscent of certain pudgy orange politicians.
One of these coaches went to and played for the University of Michigan, the other one got some Bachelors degree from University of Wisconsin Platteville. One of them has a stunning résumé, and the other has, well, just managing people
Greg Gard - Wikipedia
No excusing getting physical from Howard, but clearly the Wisconsin coach initiated physical contact and initiated the conflict.
3 players got suspended...2 from Michigan & 1 from Wisconsin
Michigan's Howard suspended for rest of season
Michigan men's basketball coach Juwan Howard, who took a swing at a Wisconsin assistant after the Wolverines' loss to the Badgers on Sunday, was suspended Monday for the rest of the regular season, the Big Ten Conference announced.
Michigan forwards Terrance Williams and Moussa Diabate and Wisconsin guard Jahcobi Neath were each suspended one game. All three appeared to throw punches. The disciplinary actions were imposed by the Big Ten, in conjunction with both schools.
1 game?that's pathetic lolMichigan's Howard suspended for rest of season
Michigan men's basketball coach Juwan Howard, who took a swing at a Wisconsin assistant after the Wolverines' loss to the Badgers on Sunday, was suspended Monday for the rest of the regular season, the Big Ten Conference announced.www.espn.com
Michigan forwards Terrance Williams and Moussa Diabate and Wisconsin guard Jahcobi Neath were each suspended one game. All three appeared to throw punches. The disciplinary actions were imposed by the Big Ten, in conjunction with both schools.
Guess I just disagree with your whole premise. Howard was upset. Whether he should have been is up for debate. Gard grabbed Howard’s arm when JH was passing through the line. Coaches make comments to each other all the time in the line. 99% of the time nothing happens. Gard decided to make his point to Howard who wanted none of it. Then the moment passed until the Wisconsin assistant decided he was the yappiest little puppy in the yard. Stuff escalated from there. Gard, Howard, the assistant, and several players were all at fault. An embarrassing episode in college basketball. No one involved deserves a pass on their actions.
The handshake line doesn't bother me at all. I'm only bothered by people dumb enough to think that slapping everyone's hand after the game because tradition says it is the civil thing to do somehow makes you a better person, and that sportsmanship would die without doing it. Not the big deal folks are making out of it.Well your mind is made up......
Therefore, we will keep the post-game handshake across sports at all levels because it bothered you enough to make an argument for why it wasn't necessary.
Good luck!
10%. It's science.
Watch a dual meet sometime and tell me how many of them give a $hit about shaking hands.
Sure, everything is up for debate...
But let me ask you, given that the game was basically 'over' and we all have our varying degrees of rules or protocols for how we believe 'decided' games should end...
Who is more 'in the wrong'...
The guy pressing & trapping with his starters still in the game against the other teams' scrubs.
OR
The guy that takes a 30 second TO to regroup & to attempt to save his team from another TO/garbage bucket.
IMO, Howard has -0- right to be upset. If you're going to operate from the premise that it's ok for Howard to leave starters in & play/press until the clock reads 0.00...how in the world can you hold Gard to any fault at all for doing the same thing & taking the TO?
It appeared to me that Gard was basically ok with Howard looking for garbage points & turnovers...it's annoying, but it's his prerogitive. He was going to go through the handshake line with no incident. But what Gard wasn't okay with is Howard telling him he can't keep coaching his own team, if that's how Howard is going to play it. (ie, "I'm going to remember that TO!"
So, no, Howard being upset isn't 'up for debate'. If you're going to play it out, the other coach can too. If you're going to concede the game, then it's fair to expect the other coach not to take TO's in the last 15 seconds to strategize & draw up plays.
You have to either mandate it or outlaw it. If it's optional, then the team that doesn't do it look like a bunch of jackasses. One team standing there ready to shake hands and the other team walks off the court. So the teams will stand there with their thumbs up their collective butts wondering what the other guys are going to do.
I really don't know how this country manages to make a big deal out of so many small things. It's a handshake line for crissakes.
I concur. Keep the handshake line, but if you're the coach, recognize the "moment", and shake hands or walk away. Teach your assistants how to recognize situations where the coach needs to just walk away. Look at coaches who are pissed to the point of drawing a technical foul during games. Assistant coaches, and at times, even players try to restrain the coach. A little common sense goes a long way.
Souhan has always been nothing but a "look at me" blowhard. He's an opinion writer, not a journalist. Two pages here, it looks like he's won another round.
It's not like this is the first time this happened with Howard. He severely lacks self control. Get rid of the handshake like? How about not acting like a child in the handshake line.
Gard totally at fault. Howard didn’t want to stop to talk about it and Gard blocked and grabbed Howard. Yes, Howard is at fault too for doing what he did but Gard instigated the conflict. He should of known based upon Howard’s reaction to just shake hands and let it go till a day or two after the game then reach out to him about the entire ordeal. He of all people should know about the 24 hour rule.
