ADVERTISEMENT

Summer hottest on record/GOP dumbest on record

So the climate has been changing for milliions of years and you're saying that man caused all of those changes?

Ummmm.....nope.

But we have the data and explanations as to what DID cause those changes in past paleoclimate, and NONE of those factors are currently in flux to explain the warming being observed now.

Milankovitch cycles? Nope - we should have already 'peaked' and be on a downward trend.
Sun? Nope - solar output is stable through this past century and recent analysis indicates it has been stable for a few centuries now.
Volcanic output? Nope - man outputs ~130 times more CO2 than all volcanic activity combined, annually. Volcanic eruptions have been tagged in explaining regional climate shifts such as the Little Ice Age, however.

Your naive assertion here implies that 'climate just changes randomly over eons'; that is categorically incorrect. It changes due to something that alters solar influx vs. radiative loss, and we've run out of 'natural' sources which can alter that AND have undergone a significant change.
 
What do my emotional posts say, then what do your emotional posts say?
Mostly I think you emotional posts say that you're incapable of thinking about things any deeper than what your gut is capable of. No offense, but your posts aren't exactly the work of nuance. They're usually quite superficial.
 
So the climate has been changing for milliions of years and you're saying that man caused all of those changes?

What SHOULD concern you is this fact:

Figure-14.png


In the top graph, global CO2 levels have varied by about 230 ppm ±50 ppm over the past 800,000 years. So, we've only seen ~180 to 280 ppm 'boundaries' in variation in one of the MAJOR factors that impacts and maintains and keeps global temperatures stable.

During that 800,000 years, we saw MANY Ice Ages come and go - times in which our planet was WAY less habitable than it is today, and yet global CO2 only varied by ±50 ppm (~230 ppm ± 50 ppm).

In contrast, TODAY we have already altered our global CO2 levels by >120 ppm over the pre-industrial level - more than twice the variation seen in the last 800,000 years! So, to presume we are NOT going to alter our climate significantly in response to this is simply naive - the climate varied a LOT within the ±50 ppm 'boundaries'; to presume it's going to remain 'similar' or 'stable' when we've changed CO2 levels by twice that amount is just nonsensical.

And, if instead of using the 'pre-industrial' value of 280 ppm CO2, we use the nominal average level of 230 ppm (from the past 800,000 years), we're up almost 200 ppm from that - between 3x and 4x more CO2 from the mean ( +170 ppm vs. ±50 ppm). That is a little unsettling....
 
  • Like
Reactions: cigaretteman
Mostly I think you emotional posts say that you're incapable of thinking about things any deeper than what your gut is capable of. No offense, but your posts aren't exactly the work of nuance. They're usually quite superficial.


So emotional that they are shallow and lack nuance? Yeah, you definitely have lost me, those would be the posts of someone who has very little emotion in their posts.


I don't believe you have thought out your response very well. Try again, but with feeling this time.
 
I don't think it's human factored. That's the point.
exactly. most people don't think humans could possibly do something like this. change the climate? please. it's like thinking we could tow the moon up there where it is with a spaceship. but, I have heard a guy say this, I think it was john leer if I remember correctly, he said the moon was towed there. but anyway, liberals move the goalposts and change the narrative to: "you don't believe the climate changes", instead of, "you don't believe mankind can change the climate"....it's a little trick they use.
 
exactly. most people don't think humans could possibly do something like this. change the climate? please. it's like thinking we could tow the moon up there where it is with a spaceship. but, I have heard a guy say this, I think it was john leer if I remember correctly, he said the moon was towed there. but anyway, liberals move the goalposts and change the narrative to: "you don't believe the climate changes", instead of, "you don't believe mankind can change the climate"....it's a little trick they use.

Maybe someone can help me out since apparently I'm not that smart. I've stated that I believe the climate has been changing for millions of years thus I believe in climate change as I've defined in this thread. I've also stated that I believe that man's activity has an affect on the climate. Believe the only difference I have with those like Huey and Joe is to the degree I believe man's activity affects the climate. Don't really care what others think but more curious as to what makes my position so stupid.
 
Maybe someone can help me out since apparently I'm not that smart. I've stated that I believe the climate has been changing for millions of years thus I believe in climate change as I've defined in this thread. I've also stated that I believe that man's activity has an affect on the climate. Believe the only difference I have with those like Huey and Joe is to the degree I believe man's activity affects the climate. Don't really care what others think but more curious as to what makes my position so stupid.

Well, we were certainly able to impact the ozone layer in a mere decade or two; something that had been in existence for millennia. If not for the Montreal Protocol, we would likely not have much ozone left today...
 
  • Like
Reactions: cigaretteman
Maybe someone can help me out since apparently I'm not that smart. I've stated that I believe the climate has been changing for millions of years thus I believe in climate change as I've defined in this thread. I've also stated that I believe that man's activity has an affect on the climate. Believe the only difference I have with those like Huey and Joe is to the degree I believe man's activity affects the climate. Don't really care what others think but more curious as to what makes my position so stupid.

Actually, it's more like science isn't as stupid as some on here think. We have a very good understanding of the natural factors that affect climate. They can readily explain the temperature variations seen in the past. The problem is that in recent history they DON'T explain the rising temps we're currently experiencing. In fact, collectively the natural factors suggest that the climate should be cooling slightly. It isn't. The only thing that explains what we're seeing now is anthropogenic CO2. Literally - and that's using the word in it's old sense - literally nothing else fits.

It isn't enough to say natural forces have changed the climate in the past, nobody disputes that. But if you're going to claim that the current warming is natural...or 90% natural...or 75% natural...YOU have to describe a natural force that would accomplish it. Your problem then becomes discovering and describing this natural climate forcer that is hidden from the best climatologists on the planet.
 
  • Like
Reactions: cigaretteman
Actually, it's more like science isn't as stupid as some on here think. We have a very good understanding of the natural factors that affect climate. They can readily explain the temperature variations seen in the past. The problem is that in recent history they DON'T explain the rising temps we're currently experiencing. In fact, collectively the natural factors suggest that the climate should be cooling slightly. It isn't. The only thing that explains what we're seeing now is anthropogenic CO2. Literally - and that's using the word in it's old sense - literally nothing else fits.

It isn't enough to say natural forces have changed the climate in the past, nobody disputes that. But if you're going to claim that the current warming is natural...or 90% natural...or 75% natural...YOU have to describe a natural force that would accomplish it. Your problem then becomes discovering and describing this natural climate forcer that is hidden from the best climatologists on the planet.
Excellent point. We have definite causation of warming with man, but we lack the same causation with natural events. So why would anyone assume that it would be the natural events driving things?
 
  • Like
Reactions: cigaretteman
Excellent point. We have definite causation of warming with man, but we lack the same causation with natural events. So why would anyone assume that it would be the natural events driving things?

Actually, that's what you SHOULD assume, starting out with no other information.

Is it the sun? Analyze data and determine, no, solar output is stable or has declined over the past centuries.

Is it orbital/Milankovitch cycles? Analyze data and determine, no, we are just past the peak of the last orbital cycle, and are due for another Ice Age in maybe 50,000 or 100,000 more years.

Is it ocean cycles? Analyze data and determine, no, El Nino/La Nina cannot explain the consistent warming, and we are not 'cooling' during La Nina cycles anymore, we only 'hold serve' on global temperatures in the past century or more during long La Nina stretches.

Is it cosmic rays? Analyze data and determine, no, we cannot find any variation in cosmic ray influx vs. temperatures.

Is it volcanic emissions? Analyze data and determine, no, humans actually output >100x more CO2 than all terrestrial and submarine volcanoes combined.

Additionally, major volcanic events serve to cool the climate, not warm it up (which is the actual cause of the Little Ice Age), and we have not had any of those since Pinatubo (which was relatively small on the 'major volcanic events scale). Paleoclimate data indicate prior major volcanic events, occurring over centuries, DID release lots of CO2, which DID cause major warming events over 1000 years or more millions of years ago. Thus, we have objective and paleo data which directly show CO2 can drive temperatures.

We are simply out of 'natural' phenomena which can explain the data and the recent warming.

The combination of rising temperatures AND ocean acidification can ONLY be explained by CO2 level increases. And we KNOW that those are presently being driven by human processes: deforestation and fossil fuel burning. Additionally, we KNOW that the CO2 runup in the atmosphere is coming from fossil fuels, because the isotope signature or ratio of the carbon is consistent with the sequestered carbon, not terrestrial carbon. That has also been proven - we KNOW where that extra carbon and CO2 has originated from based on the isotope signatures.

(FWIW: this is also why 'planting a tree' to 'offset' your carbon footprint is really nonsense - a tree can sequester that carbon for MAYBE 100 years or so. Then, it dies and the carbon is re-released as the tree decays. We also have limits on how many tons of 'new trees' can be holding carbon at any given time, based on soil footprints and fresh water requirements. The ONLY thing that can reduce or limit a carbon footprint is to leave the fossil fuels in the ground, or sequester the tons of carbon/carbon dioxide underground for thousands, or millions, of years, which is where it was before we dug it up or pumped it out.)

Another side-note: one or more of the MAJOR extinction events which occurred millions of years ago has been attributed to massive CO2 releases from specific types of volcanic eruptions. Those extinctions didn't likely occur because of higher temperatures: they occurred because the oceans became significantly more acidic, killing off many of the microbic species at the bottom of the food chain which rely on creation carbonate shells to survive. We are on pace to ramp up CO2 levels and ocean acidity on par with those massive extinction events.

If we do disrupt the bottom of the food chains in the oceans, we will ultimately eliminate major food supplies for most of the world's populations. That may not happen for another century or so (but easily could be sooner), but if it does, the Earth will not be able to support 7 billion people anymore, let alone the 9 or more billion we might be at by then.

I.e.: we should KNOW with absolute certainty we will not/can not cause that to happen with our emissions, not 'guess' or 'hope' that our emissions won't cause it. That is simply Risk Management:101.
 
  • Like
Reactions: cigaretteman
In the category of "You can't make this stuff up"....and I realize its not new, but wow...just wow....

The Big Bang is a fairy tale and Evolution is a concept used by Satan.

"I personally believe that this theory Darwin came up with was something that was encouraged by the adversary [Satan] and it has become what is scientifically, politically correct."

My Theory of Carson™ has been revised upon viewing those clips. He's an IDIOT savant

That he believes this isn't "wow", however. There are lots of idiots out there. The real "wow" is that people take him seriously as a candidate for president.
 
  • Like
Reactions: cigaretteman
ADVERTISEMENT
ADVERTISEMENT