Team Point Deduction

[Sandor45]

We lost a team trophy spot to Orange Tech by 1 point. I know fourth place isn't even close to where the Hawkeyes or fans want to be, but how we got robbed of that place is straight up criminal.
The assistant ref who stopped the Brooks pin should never EVER be allowed to ref in college wrestling again.
They say refs don't want to decide the outcome of a match. The piss ass excuse for a ref not only cost Brooks a pin with much needed bonus points, but than he goes on to deduct a TEAM POINT after our coaches rightfully cuss him out.
Be a man ref and take the reprimand, it's the least you can do. These refs have way to much pride when it comes to their f ups.
Don't let this one slide NCAAs. That ref does not belong at this level.
Also want to note an observation that was pretty obvious throughout the tourney. Penn St wrestlers got the benefit of the doubt on a lot of calls by the ref.
1st round match stall call against Conway's opponent.
Lack of stall calls on Megastaller
That out of the blue stall call on Imar in the finals against Nolf.

 

[crablegs1]

They say refs don't want to decide the outcome of a match. The piss ass excuse for a ref not only cost Brooks a pin with much needed bonus points, but than he goes on to deduct a TEAM POINT after our coaches rightfully cuss him out.
Be a man ref and take the reprimand, it's the least you can do. These refs have way to much pride when it comes to their f ups.
Don't let this one slide NCAAs. That ref does not belong at this level..

The referee should be punished by the NCAA. No doubt about it.

That said, the coaches need to keep their cool. There is nothing they could have yelled and screamed at the official that would have put Brooks back in the headlock position with a chance to get the pin back. Throwing a temper tantrum can only make the situation worse, and that is exactly what happened.

 

[Sandor45]

The referee should be punished by the NCAA. No doubt about it.

That said, the coaches need to keep their cool. There is nothing they could have yelled and screamed at the official that would have put Brooks back in the headlock position with a chance to get the pin back. Throwing a temper tantrum can only make the situation worse, and that is exactly what happened.

You must have the tempermant of a Buddhist monk. I don't see any coach that doesn't go off in that situation.

 

[DirtyJohns]

Which referee was it?

 

[Hicksy87]

The official was totally wrong to stop the match. Brooks had the arm in the headlock plus he had him pinned. Fall should have been called before the second official stopped the match. Pictures were posted during the session IV thread.

 

[Lsanders20]

As I said in another post this was a 2 point swing in the team score.

 

[Sandor45]

The official was totally wrong to stop the match. Brooks had the arm in the headlock plus he had him pinned. Fall should have been called before the second official stopped the match. Pictures were posted during the session IV thread.

I typed it down cause the announcers said their names right after the stoppage. Sounds like the announcers want to refs to be held accountable too.
Matt Sorinsinki
Gary Mayham
The spelling is probably way off, but that's the closest I can get. It's the assistant ref not the head one. The head ref was literally on the verge of calling the fall and I think a little surprised when the assistant ref stopped it.

 

[SPOONER]

You must have the tempermant of a Buddhist monk. I don't see any coach that doesn't go off in that situation.

Based on the reaction in my living room, I was shocked my wife didn't deduct a team point from my score.

 

[Sandor45]

Based on the reaction in my living room, I was shocked my wife didn't deduct a team point from my score.

I was told to shut up as well.

 

[Scryed]

It was a rather unfortunate situation for the Hawks, but Brands going off on the official the way he did caused the extra deduction and I'm not totally against it. I can understand being upset in the situation (I would be as well) but part of coaching at this level is keeping your composure and handling things like a grown adult, not an early 20's meat head. Honestly, I hope it's a learning experience for Brands. I've been surprised Iowa hasn't gotten more team point deductions over the years with some of the antics I've seen from the twins. The time it finally caught up with them just bit them a bit harder than the fans would have liked.

 

[sadiehawkins]

It was a rather unfortunate situation for the Hawks, but Brands going off on the official the way he did caused the extra deduction and I'm not totally against it. I can understand being upset in the situation (I would be as well) but part of coaching at this level is keeping your composure and handling things like a grown adult, not an early 20's meat head. Honestly, I hope it's a learning experience for Brands. I've been surprised Iowa hasn't gotten more team point deductions over the years with some of the antics I've seen from the twins. The time it finally caught up with them just bit them a bit harder than the fans would have liked.

 

[OneRoughneck]

I believe VT had a team point deducted, as well.

 

[sadiehawkins]

a official screws up they should be called out on it. I don't think it really matters to the iowa team if they finishes 4th or 5th. They want championships not 4th or 5th place. Brands had every right to go off we may get some home cookin at carver but when we are in tournaments I think its the opposite. They should of let the move play out then determined if there was a illegal hold.

 

[Hicksy87]

As I said in another post this was a 2 point swing in the team score.

Three point swing. I believe it is 2 bonus points for the fall plus the 1 point deducted.

 

[neversurrender]

Didn't VT lose a team point in the tourney too? So had they not lost their team point the team right back to being a point behind VT. In the end the guys didn't get the job done, had Meyer won 1st round, had any of the finalist won, had any of the guys won 1 more match or maybe if anyone of them would have pushed the pace more to get bonus points instead of coasting to 1,2,3 point wins there wouldn't be a discussion about this. Yes the ref screwed up but fact remains that 1 point wasn't the undoing for this team.

 

[Scryed]

That's absolutely the last thing you do if there's what looks to be an illegal hold - that's how people get severely hurt, especially in a sport like wrestling. Was the call bad? Absolutely. Did Tom have a right to voice his disgust with it? Sure. Did he need to keep going after the ref the way he did? We may agree to disagree here, but I don't think so. Referees make mistakes, and to a large degree they deal with quite a bit of badgering from coaches about it. But there is a line that must be drawn on what is acceptable and what is not.

 

[pumpdog20]

I'm behind Brands and Morningstar 100% on this one. Like I said, even the subdued Cael would have flipped out on that call. This is not an isolated "Iowa coaches lost their cool" moment.

 

[pumpdog20]

Plus, we keep blaming Brands. Was it even him that got the call. I remember him pulling M* back during the whole ordeal, but I guess I don't know exactly when the deduction happened.

 

[#10Hawk]

Three point swing. I believe it is 2 bonus points for the fall plus the 1 point deducted.

Plus Brooks would be more fresh for his next match that session.

 

[ggcpsu]

It was a horrendous call, Brooks had him pinned so clearly Hellen Keller knew. That being said, Brands was literally in the center circle of the mat while wrestling was still taking place at the far edge.

 

[Hicksy87]

#10 not just fresher physically due to a short match but I believe that match took a toll mentally on him as well making it very difficult to prepare mentally for the next match. Keeping the mental edge is the most difficult part of a tournament specially after a very emotional win which the Abounader match was.

 

[Jcantrels]

That's absolutely the last thing you do if there's what looks to be an illegal hold - that's how people get severely hurt, especially in a sport like wrestling. Was the call bad? Absolutely. Did Tom have a right to voice his disgust with it? Sure. Did he need to keep going after the ref the way he did? We may agree to disagree here, but I don't think so. Referees make mistakes, and to a large degree they deal with quite a bit of badgering from coaches about it. But there is a line that must be drawn on what is acceptable and what is not.

Your confusing.

 

[Lambertt]

That's absolutely the last thing you do if there's what looks to be an illegal hold - that's how people get severely hurt, especially in a sport like wrestling. Was the call bad? Absolutely. Did Tom have a right to voice his disgust with it? Sure. Did he need to keep going after the ref the way he did? We may agree to disagree here, but I don't think so. Referees make mistakes, and to a large degree they deal with quite a bit of badgering from coaches about it. But there is a line that must be drawn on what is acceptable and what is not.

I'm confused also. You say Brands has got the right to voice his disgust but didn't need to keep going after the ref. Then you say he should have kept his composure and not acted like a 20 year old "meat head".

 

[crablegs1]

How many ways are there to voice disgust without losing a team point? What did all the yelling accomplish? All it did was hurt the team. Maybe it made Brands feel good. He should keep his cool there.

 

[anon_hc7hkvtk15hp5]

Plus, we keep blaming Brands. Was it even him that got the call. I remember him pulling M* back during the whole ordeal, but I guess I don't know exactly when the deduction happened.

The way I heard the head of officiating (who happened to be mat side for this match), was each coach got a warning and the team only gets one warning. Therefore, they both lost a point. Crazy thing is later in the match, the Michigan coaches were out in the mat and they weren't even warned. There is definitely a double standard for Iowa coaches and wrestlers.

 

[Lambertt]

How many ways are there to voice disgust without losing a team point? What did all the yelling accomplish? All it did was hurt the team. Maybe it made Brands feel good. He should keep his cool there.

Oh, now I understand. Brands should have just sat there and said, "Why did you stop the match when my wrestler had the other wrestler pinned? The head official states "I'm not sure coach you'll have to ask the other official" Coach Brands then gets the attention of the other official and ask "Why did you stop the match?" The other official then explains that he thought the Iowa wrestler used an illegal hold or he thinks he did. Coach Brands then thanks the official for his explanation and lets him know that what ever he decides must be right. Peace be with you.

 

[HAWKMANN]

They say refs don't want to decide the outcome of a match. The piss ass excuse for a ref not only cost Brooks a pin with much needed bonus points, but than he goes on to deduct a TEAM POINT after our coaches rightfully cuss him out.

Just for the record Brands/Morningstar didn't swear once during the discussion although they would have been justified IMO.

 

[championhawk]

We lost a team trophy spot to Orange Tech by 1 point. I know fourth place isn't even close to where the Hawkeyes or fans want to be, but how we got robbed of that place is straight up criminal.
The assistant ref who stopped the Brooks pin should never EVER be allowed to ref in college wrestling again.
They say refs don't want to decide the outcome of a match. The piss ass excuse for a ref not only cost Brooks a pin with much needed bonus points, but than he goes on to deduct a TEAM POINT after our coaches rightfully cuss him out.
Be a man ref and take the reprimand, it's the least you can do. These refs have way to much pride when it comes to their f ups.
Don't let this one slide NCAAs. That ref does not belong at this level.
Also want to note an observation that was pretty obvious throughout the tourney. Penn St wrestlers got the benefit of the doubt on a lot of calls by the ref.
1st round match stall call against Conway's opponent.
Lack of stall calls on Megastaller
That out of the blue stall call on Imar in the finals against Nolf.

You are dead on with Conway. He should have lost his first round. That type of call favored PSU the whole tourney. Not that they needed any help.

 

[augiehawk]

The first warning they got they were out of the coach's area and going nuts. The second one, which was the point deduction, they were standing in the coach's area and did not look like they were doing anything extra. I know why they got the first warning, but didn't think they deserved a second one to get a team point deducted

 

[Azchief32]

Oh, now I understand. Brands should have just sat there and said, "Why did you stop the match when my wrestler had the other wrestler pinned? The head official states "I'm not sure coach you'll have to ask the other official" Coach Brands then gets the attention of the other official and ask "Why did you stop the match?" The other official then explains that he thought the Iowa wrestler used an illegal hold or he thinks he did. Coach Brands then thanks the official for his explanation and lets him know that what ever he decides must be right. Peace be with you.

And also with you. Brands needs to work on his trust falls.

 

[caseyballzz]

It was a rather unfortunate situation for the Hawks, but Brands going off on the official the way he did caused the extra deduction and I'm not totally against it. I can understand being upset in the situation (I would be as well) but part of coaching at this level is keeping your composure and handling things like a grown adult, not an early 20's meat head. Honestly, I hope it's a learning experience for Brands. I've been surprised Iowa hasn't gotten more team point deductions over the years with some of the antics I've seen from the twins. The time it finally caught up with them just bit them a bit harder than the fans would have liked.

Thank you Mrs. Sanderson!

 

[Lsanders20]

Three point swing. I believe it is 2 bonus points for the fall plus the 1 point deducted.

You are correct that a fall is worth 2 points but Brooks won by major decision so he got 1 bonus point rather than 2. Subtract 1 more point for the deduction and you have a 2 point swing but as someone else mentioned 4th or 5th who cares. Our expectations are to win and that is how it should be.

 

[SPOONER]

You are correct that a fall is worth 2 points but Brooks won by major decision so he got 1 bonus point rather than 2. Subtract 1 more point for the deduction and you have a 2 point swing but as someone else mentioned 4th or 5th who cares. Our expectations are to win and that is how it should be.

False. He won 13-7.

 

[crablegs1]

Oh, now I understand. Brands should have just sat there and said, "Why did you stop the match when my wrestler had the other wrestler pinned? The head official states "I'm not sure coach you'll have to ask the other official" Coach Brands then gets the attention of the other official and ask "Why did you stop the match?" The other official then explains that he thought the Iowa wrestler used an illegal hold or he thinks he did. Coach Brands then thanks the official for his explanation and lets him know that what ever he decides must be right. Peace be with you.

It doesn't take Christ himself to not throw a temper tantrum when things don't go your way. I would hope most adults understand that, but from the majority of posts on this thread it doesn't appear this way.

 

[Sandor45]

It doesn't take Christ himself to not throw a temper tantrum when things don't go your way. I would hope most adults understand that, but from the majority of posts on this thread it doesn't appear this way.

How do you do it? Meditation, Yoga, Tai Chi, Ritalin?

 

[TNTwrestle]

I'm not going to make excuses, and and much as I'd like to, I'm not weighing in on how the coaches acted/did not act, but if you can't see that the situation in question turned the whole tournament around mentally you're blind. If you don't think that call got in everyone's head and affected the whole team, you probably don't understand the sport. It shouldn't have had that effect if everyone is mentally as tough as they need to be, but it was obvious that it did. It was the major turning point, and the total loss of momentum, and nothing can/could be done about it.

 

[crablegs1]

I'm not going to make excuses, and and much as I'd like to, I'm not weighing in on how the coaches acted/did not act, but if you can't see that the situation in question turned the whole tournament around mentally you're blind. If you don't think that call got in everyone's head and affected the whole team, you probably don't understand the sport. It shouldn't have had that effect if everyone is mentally as tough as they need to be, but it was obvious that it did. It was the major turning point, and the total loss of momentum, and nothing can/could be done about it.

And unfortunately our coaches set that tone. They let the call get to them and caused a chain reaction with the team.

“It’s not what happens to you, but how you react to it that matters.” – Epictetus

 

[Lambertt]

And unfortunately our coaches set that tone. They let the call get to them and caused a chain reaction with the team.

“It’s not what happens to you, but how you react to it that matters.” – Epictetus

Your dad or possibly you must be a wrestling official and an awful one at that.

 

[Sandor45]

And unfortunately our coaches set that tone. They let the call get to them and caused a chain reaction with the team.

“It’s not what happens to you, but how you react to it that matters.” – Epictetus

This is how I imagine you while watching wrestling.

 

[Lsanders20]

False. He won 13-7.

Correct, I didn't realize Abounader came back and scored that many points. So it was a 3 point swing and as another poster mentioned the extra energy Brooks used to wrestle 5 more minutes there could have been avoided had he got the fall. Huge deal in the consolation bracket.