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Tesla owners run into trouble amid bitter cold

jamesvanderwulf

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Nov 27, 2015
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People's Republic of Johnson County
EVERGREEN PARK, Ill. (CBS) -- Some Tesla drivers learned the hard way amid this frigid snap about how cold weather affects battery life.

At a charging station at The Evergreen Marketplace, at 9200 S. Western Ave. in Evergreen Park, Teslas were lined up early Monday morning. Some of the Teslas' batteries died – leaving the cars sitting askew and immobile in the parking lot.

Driver said some of the charging stations weren't working – and those that were working took a lot longer than usual to charge.

"I've been here for over five hours at this point, and I still have not gotten to charge my car," said Tesla driver Brandon Welbourne. "A charge that should take 45 minutes is taking two hours."

Welbourne said he saw at least 10 cars towed.

Tesla advises owners to keep the charge level above 20 percent during bitter cold weather.

 
Wouldn’t own one if I couldn’t charge at home. Too risky IMO.
You wouldn't be able to own one in a lot of the bigger northeastern cities, where houses and apartments are crammed together, and people fight for parking on the street close to their building. Heck, very few older apartment complexes anywhere have charging stations.
 
You wouldn't be able to own one in a lot of the bigger northeastern cities, where houses and apartments are crammed together, and people fight for parking on the street close to their building. Heck, very few older apartment complexes anywhere have charging stations.
I also wouldn’t own a riding loan mower if I lived in an apartment.

Nobody said every product is for everybody.
 
You wouldn't be able to own one in a lot of the bigger northeastern cities, where houses and apartments are crammed together, and people fight for parking on the street close to their building. Heck, very few older apartment complexes anywhere have charging stations.
I couldn't imagine living somewhere that I didn't have my own garage. Would never happen.
 
The guy doing our floor work project couldn't make it yesterday because his diesel F-250 wouldn't start due to gelatinous fuel in the cold.

Turns out arctic temps are hard on vehicles --- who knew!?
Diesel powered engines have been here for a very long time and they exist in things other than passenger vehicles like cars and pickups.
If that was a common problem I’m thinking that long haul truckers and even trains would be caught in weather related situations every year.
 
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I couldn't imagine living somewhere that I didn't have my own garage. Would never happen.

Walk around the neighborhoods where I live, and you'll see lots of people living in expensive rental properties parking $60-80k BMWs and Mercedes outside in the common parking lots, too (recently saw one Mercedes w/ a sunroof problem that the guy had covered with plastic tarping).

Meanwhile, the folks who probably pay the same monthly mortgage as those renters live in $1M+ homes and drive Hondas and Toyotas, with 2-3 car garages.

#Priorities
 
But isn’t our government trying to move all of us to electric vehicles and renewable energy sources? So isn’t the government saying those products must eventually be for everybody?

It's what Infrastructure Bills are for; to get the stuff built out so that EVs can charge anywhere.

Have a smartphone that wirelessly charges on a charging stand? That's where EVs are eventually going to end up.
 
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Diesel powered engines have been here for a very long time and they exist in things other than passenger vehicles like cars and pickups.
If that was a common problem I’m thinking that long haul truckers and even trains would be caught in weather related situations every year.
I think most people owning diesel powered vehicles use block warmers when it's below freezing. I'd guess a few don't replace their fuel filter as often as they should and end up with frozen fuel lines.
 
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I think most people owning diesel powered vehicles use block warmers when it's below freezing. I'd guess a few don't replace their fuel filter as often as they should and end up with frozen fuel lines.
And most electric car owners have at-home charging stations and should be able to plan around cold weather.

If you let your Tesla get below 20% and relied on a public charging station outdoors when it was -10 degrees, it's your stupidity and lack of planning that is the problem, not the vehicle type you drive.
 
Another reason we shouldn't have thrown the towel in on reliable hybrids. I'd LOVE to have one where on most days I'm on battery shooting around town running errands, then on road trips I kick over to ICE and apparently on super cold-snap days.
 
Another reason we shouldn't have thrown the towel in on reliable hybrids. I'd LOVE to have one where on most days I'm on battery shooting around town running errands, then on road trips I kick over to ICE and apparently on super cold-snap days.
I just read a very good article on this issue.

Right now, plug-in hybrids are probably the best solution given current technological lmitiations.

However, the economics of them aren't great for the car companies:

The Hybrid-Car Dilemma​

Americans are falling in love with hybrids. Why don’t car companies want to make them?
By Patrick George
A collage of EV chargers and an empty car fuel gauge.

Illustration by The Atlantic. Sources: Getty.
DECEMBER 7, 2023


Michael Treiman is something of a professional electric-vehicle evangelist. As the vice president of sales for ChargeSmart EV—a company that sells electric charging stations, mostly to businesses and municipal offices—his job is to convince people that EVs are the future, and that it’s time to start planning for them. But on his personal time, you won’t find him in an electric car. Or, rather, a fully electric car: He owns a 2022 Chrysler Pacifica plug-in hybrid. For his family of five, he told me, none of the few three-row electric SUVs for sale right now can match what the hybrid minivan can do. With the Pacifica’s small battery that powers the car for short trips and boosts its MPG, “we have gotten over 1,500 miles out of a single tank of gas,” he said.

The humble hybrid is having a moment. While this year is shaping up to be the biggest year for EV sales America has ever seen, it has also been marred by staggering production challenges and uneven demand from consumers. Americans are still wary of electric vehicles’ higher prices, limited battery ranges, and inadequate local charging infrastructure. As a result, some carmakers are dialing back their electric sales goals, battery-plant plans, and even the tough love they once had for car dealers reluctant to go all-in on EVs. Meanwhile, hybrid sales are growing at a rate that slightly outpaces EV growth, according to the U.S. Energy Information Administration. Hybrids now make up nearly 10 percent of new car sales, a proportion that’s more than doubled since 2020. Unlike EVs, hybrids burn gasoline and create tailpipe emissions, but they generally create far less tailpipe pollution than their purely gas counterparts. The latest Toyota Sienna minivan, for example, comes only in hybrid form and has nearly half the CO2 emissions of its non-hybrid predecessor.

Given this surge in popularity, you might think that every carmaker would be eager to offer more hybrids to customers who are looking to lower their carbon footprint but who feel unable to make the full leap to EVs. Nope. Enter what you might call the hybrid dilemma. Faced with enormous costs pivoting their businesses to make EVs, strong sales for gas cars, and shareholders who demand profitability, the auto industry can’t decide whether hybrids are a bridge to an all-electric future or a dead end. At some point, Americans may still want hybrids while carmakers have already moved beyond them.

The problem carmakers face is that hybrids involve all the complexities of internal combustion and battery power put together. Building them “takes a lot of time and a lot of money,” Sam Fiorani, the vice president of the industry research firm AutoForecast Solutions, told me, “but a lot of their money is focused on electrifying vehicles. Diverting some of that money back into hybrid powertrains slows your transition to where you ultimately want to be.” In 2021, General Motors alone announced a $35 billion investment into electric- and autonomous-vehicle development, including new plants to make EV batteries. That’s more than three times the profit it made in 2022. When you’re staring down such monumental costs and the eventual death of internal combustion, why spend money to develop and build hybrids that still need gas engines when you can put all those resources into EVs instead?

Carmakers have varying levels of commitment to an all-electric future, yet there’s somehow even less industry consensus about hybrid cars. Some hybrids work in much the same way as the original Toyota Prius from 20 years ago, combining a traditional gas engine with an electric motor. Others, like Treiman’s Chrysler Pacifica, can plug in to charge just like an EV, further limiting their gas usage. Take Ford, which recently dialed back its EV production goals and is focusing more on hybrids. Ford is doubling the production of its hybrid model F-150, for example, which is proving to be more popular than its fully electric sibling. Then there’s Stellantis, the parent company of brands including Jeep and Ram, which builds America’s best-selling plug-in hybrid car while also offering some EVs. The hybrid champion is still Toyota; it recently announced that the ubiquitous Camry sedan would soon be offered only as a hybrid as the company moves to basically hybridize its entire lineup of cars.


But GM’s CEO, Mary Barra, has said the plan is to skip a “half step” and bypass hybrids entirely to go straight to EVs. Volkswagen has been similarly reticent on the hybrid front and is still debating whether to sell them again in America. After discontinuing one hybrid recently, Subaru is set to offer just a single other option, the upcoming Forester hybrid, but that won’t even be on sale until 2025. Mazda’s sole hybrid option is a large SUV that starts at nearly $50,000, nearly double the price of the cheapest new Toyota Prius. Even Honda, another pioneer in the hybrid space, is down to two hybrid models, though a third is coming soon.

Caught in the middle are consumers who just want to save money on gas, but perhaps have fears about going fully electric or can’t stomach the cost of EVs. Rob Einaudi, an entrepreneur in Bellingham, Washington, told me he’d only want to lease, rather than buy, an EV right now, given how quickly everything from their range to what charging port they use is changing. “You don’t want to be caught with old technology,” he said. Part of the challenge here is that Americans have a bad habit of making choices about a car that might last a decade-plus based on costs at the pump that definitely won’t last that long. (The total number of hybrid models available actually dipped in the mid-2010s as gas prices went down, and only in recent years has started to rise again.)
 
Turns out arctic temps are hard on vehicles --- who knew!?

It does seem like people believe this is an electric vehicle only problem.

I know my main repair shop owner pretty well. Last summer I was talking to him after he did an easy fix for me, and I commented to him that business looks like it's good because not only was his parking lot full, but he also had vehicles lined up out in the street.

He replied that the hottest of the hot and the coldest of the cold in Iowa are when he's busiest because extreme temps find the weak spots in ALL vehicles eventually.


My bet is right now, repair shops are full of ICE vehicles that have frozen/leaking radiators, blown out coolant hoses, bad thermostats, alternator replacements, battery replacements, frozen fuel lines, etc...gee, maybe we should have after 100+ years figured out ways to prevent these from happening by now?

Vehicles are vehicles...you put them through -20 degrees temps, some of them are going to give their owners issues. It's been that way ever since cars were invented.
 
For automakers, getting their car lineups to match up with rapidly changing consumer trends, gas prices, and their competition can be a nearly impossible task. Adding to the complexity is the fact that “the stock market looks at legacy automakers as poor investments,” Fiorani said. After all, the electric-car revolution goes hand-in-hand with the tech-focused transformation of the car industry. Automakers are eyeing revenue from software features, downloads, new apps, and, eventually, self-driving vehicles. It is hard to square any of that with investments into something as antiquated as the internal combustion engine. Investors see the sky-high returns from Tesla, which produces only electric cars, and want other car companies to follow suit. “The right answer would have been a more gradual transition to EVs through hybridization,” Fiorani said. “But looking at it from a financial perspective, those [investors] want you to be fully electric. The two are working against each other.”


For now, more kinds of hybrids are coming soon to meet the new demand. That includes a broader lineup of hybrid Toyota SUVs as well as more novel cars like the 2025 Ram Ramcharger—a hybrid with a V6 engine that is more like a full EV than any other gas-burning truck available right now. Perhaps more automakers will hop on the hybrid bandwagon until most, if not nearly all, gas-burning vehicles have some form of electric power. That would help cut emissions until EV-charging networks are up to par. Or the rapidly falling cost of battery packs could soon make EVs comparable pricewise to, or cheaper than, gas cars. By that point, it wouldn’t make much sense for automakers to continue investing in hybrids.


Those are the most optimistic scenarios. The current status quo—a mix of different vehicle types for different needs—could persist and push us into a world in which hybrids don’t do enough to mitigate our carbon problem. If car companies give up on hybrids before EVs become affordable and easier to charge, many consumers could simply opt for more gas vehicles—which isn’t great for the climate. Or, if automakers lean on hybrids for too long, they run the risk of delaying the EV transition entirely—which also isn’t great for the climate. The electric transition may be inevitable, but it’s going to be messier, weirder, and more protracted than many would like to admit.
 
That they are caught in them every year?
Of course they are. So why is your friend’s situation unique?
What am I missing?

The point is that ALL vehicle types are going to experience mechanical and other failures in extreme cold weather.

These types of articles are silly as they try to portray EVs as uniquely susceptible to problems, when that is simply not the case.
 
But isn’t our government trying to move all of us to electric vehicles and renewable energy sources? So isn’t the government saying those products must eventually be for everybody?
No “they” aren’t mom. The government is certainly encouraging the development of the all electric car...but everyone knows they aren’t for everyone. Not now. But you go ahead a believe what you need to believe. “The government” still certainly underwrites Big Oil...probably moreso that they do electric car industry.
 
And most electric car owners have at-home charging stations and should be able to plan around cold weather.

If you let your Tesla get below 20% and relied on a public charging station outdoors when it was -10 degrees, it's your stupidity and lack of planning that is the problem, not the vehicle type you drive.
If you don't have a home charging station, which is very common in urban areas, are you just supposed to not travel anywhere for a a few weeks in the winter?

EV's aren't for everyone, and should be a personal choice, not a government choice. They work great for a lot of people. Not so much for other people.
 
The point is that ALL vehicle types are going to experience mechanical and other failures in extreme cold weather.

These types of articles are silly as they try to portray EVs as uniquely susceptible to problems, when that is simply not the case.
Keep trying to prop this shit up...just like biden!
 
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Diesel powered engines have been here for a very long time and they exist in things other than passenger vehicles like cars and pickups.
If that was a common problem I’m thinking that long haul truckers and even trains would be caught in weather related situations every year.
I've worked in transportation for 30 years and it is a common problem. It's a huge problem actually. Just yesterday we had 20% of the fleet down with some sort of mechanical problem. Vehicles are not made to operate when the wind chill is -40.
 
I've worked in transportation for 30 years and it is a common problem. It's a huge problem actually. Just yesterday we had 20% of the fleet down with some sort of mechanical problem. Vehicles are not made to operate when the wind chill is -40.
Tell that to the kids running the Minot AFB in North Dakota. They operate _all the time_ ;)
 
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Solid-state batteries are becoming hot property because they are denser, safer, last longer, and hold more electricity. But how do they perform in winter compared to liquid-electrolyte ones in electric cars, and smartphones? Consumers want to know, do solid-state batteries like cold weather better now it is winter. We unpack the facts as we search for answers.

Do Solid-State Battery Electrolytes Like Low Temperatures?​

Solid batteries seem set to beat liquid-electrolyte lithium-ion across this dimension. That’s because the solid version does not become sluggish, or freeze in cold weather as liquid electrolyte does. Whereas the ions in lithium-ion batteries slow down considerably, resulting in slower charging and recharging, and reduced capacity.

The commonest lithium-ion battery electrolyte is a lithium-ion salt in an organic solvent. However, solid-state alternatives open up a wider range of options, including ceramics, polymers, and sulfides. None of these freeze or become sluggish in cold winters, meaning solid-state batteries continue to perform well in icy weather.

But unfortunately this does not mean that these revolutionary batteries are completely immune from winter cold. This is because solid batteries contain more than just electrolytes. They also have temperature-sensitive electrodes. And moreover, their solid electrolytes become fragile, and that needs more work to resolve too.

The State of Solid Electrodes and Electrolytes in Winter​

Chemical reactions typically slow down with a drop in temperature. Solid battery electrodes follow this pattern. Ions shuttle more slowly between them, and their level of performance suffers.

A solid electrolyte may not freeze, but it does become more brittle as temperature falls. This can compromise the reliability of the battery, which might eventually fail. It goes almost without saying that battery makers are working hard to resolve these challenges.

Their programs include exploring different materials for solid electrodes, but also developing self-heating batteries according to website TS2.Space. These heaters could come on automatically when battery temperature falls to a particular threshold level, potentially resolving this issue.

More Information
 
No “they” aren’t mom. The government is certainly encouraging the development of the all electric car...but everyone knows they aren’t for everyone. Not now. But you go ahead a believe what you need to believe. “The government” still certainly underwrites Big Oil...probably moreso that they do electric car industry.
These days i worry more about Big Scooter than Big Oil.
 
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