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That Whole Jump Ball Sequence Makes you Wonder.......

Beaver is in okay position. Where is the official by Minnys bench?? I have watched a lot of bball today and on every rebound 2 officials stay and 1 releases down the floor. Both Wymer & Scrotum went down the floor. They did not stay and watch the action.

I'm done talking about it. This was an error by those three officials. When I mess up at work or make error I get reprimanded. Why can't these guys?

I see scroutm is working the ILL vs PSU game and already has blown 2-3 calls
 
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If U don't think Beaver & Larry were out of position...then you either never reff'd like you claim...or you were one bad ref.

Like hanging out at mid court? that doesn't sound like a ref to me.
because you have never reffed.as long as there are players in frontcourt the refs have to keep an eye on them if you re- watch the game you will notice there were 6 guys in backcourt so that meant there were 4 guys in front court they have to be watched.
 
That ref was not in bad position and was even working to get in better position. Remember, when the play started everyone was moving the direction but Brady did the opposite and the ref reacted. The rest of the hawks did not do a good job of getting in front of a ref to call it either. Do I think they got the end call incorrect, yes, but I don't think ref position is that bad. The trail official was and should have been on the end line.
you are 100% correct thank you
 
You are a piece of work. This vantage point is from Bob Ueker seats and proves nothing. This thing has been hashed and rehashed and nobody's opinion has been changed....we know your position and you know ours.... that we got bent over. Now, "the secret to getting things done is to act". Be gone with you, thorn in my side
never
 
because you have never reffed.as long as there are players in frontcourt the refs have to keep an eye on them if you re- watch the game you will notice there were 6 guys in backcourt so that meant there were 4 guys in front court they have to be watched.
You're saying that the four players in the front court, ninety feet away, need to be watched by two officials while six players AND THE BALL in the back court only need one official. Interesting. Gonna have to watch some basketball tonight and see if that is how the refs "cover" full court pressure.
 
You're saying that the four players in the front court, ninety feet away, need to be watched by two officials while six players AND THE BALL in the back court only need one official. Interesting. Gonna have to watch some basketball tonight and see if that is how the refs "cover" full court pressure.
they will but you will never admit it.youll come back on here saying they did not do anything like i said. the ref hanging around half court is trying to watch both.
 
they will but you will never admit it.youll come back on here saying they did not do anything like i said. the ref hanging around half court is trying to watch both.

I don't believe for 1 second you are a former official ...I think you are hiding behind the internet...so tell us...when was your last year of officiating & where?
 
1998 winfield mt union vs new london southeast iowa. did 3 games for jess settles , klay edwards over the years.
 
as a freshman i gave jess a technical for hanging on the rim he was coming off of shin splints

What mechanics were used back then? 2 or 3 man? What was the ruling on Free throws back then?

I am not a basketball official by any means, but I know a lot of them. Out of the 5 that I talked to (two of them do small school college) they stated that Scorotto was out of position on that play. They said Beaver should not of ruled anything if he "couldn't" see it. You can't call what you can't see. So they all agreed he took the "cheap/scapegoat" way out and called a jump ball. He had no idea what his call was, he was just "guessing" in their opinion. So when in doubt, call jump ball.

They all said that Beaver and Scorotto should of been there and therefore worked together. Instead scorotto comes running in after the whistle is blown (he sprinted from Iowa's bench). So he was way out of position. Sucks but oh well. I was told by one of the guys that he has hung around "Beaver" at officiating clinic in Chicago and said he is a major tool. Acted like his crap didn't stink and was just arrogant. Whatever that means.

Regardless its over and I doubt we see beaver or scorotto at an Iowa game next year. I am guessing the U will make a note to keep them away.
 
What mechanics were used back then? 2 or 3 man? What was the ruling on Free throws back then?

I am not a basketball official by any means, but I know a lot of them. Out of the 5 that I talked to (two of them do small school college) they stated that Scorotto was out of position on that play. They said Beaver should not of ruled anything if he "couldn't" see it. You can't call what you can't see. So they all agreed he took the "cheap/scapegoat" way out and called a jump ball. He had no idea what his call was, he was just "guessing" in their opinion. So when in doubt, call jump ball.

They all said that Beaver and Scorotto should of been there and therefore worked together. Instead scorotto comes running in after the whistle is blown (he sprinted from Iowa's bench). So he was way out of position. Sucks but oh well. I was told by one of the guys that he has hung around "Beaver" at officiating clinic in Chicago and said he is a major tool. Acted like his crap didn't stink and was just arrogant. Whatever that means.

Regardless its over and I doubt we see beaver or scorotto at an Iowa game next year. I am guessing the U will make a note to keep them away.
2 man . i disagree with them . you can get to close to a play. i have watched the replay 2 or 3 times scrotto was hanging around half court which was a good place for him to be , there are 10 players on the court that need watched. what ruling on free throws are you interested in?
 
2 man . i disagree with them . you can get to close to a play. i have watched the replay 2 or 3 times scrotto was hanging around half court which was a good place for him to be , there are 10 players on the court that need watched. what ruling on free throws are you interested in?

release or rim.

Again every official I have talked to said their should of been 2 guys on the ball. The 1 official (Wymer) could of handled the other 4-5 players because they are not a "threat" to get the ball. If Scorotto was at half court, it took him a while to get to the ball then. I thought he would be faster than that. Because you see him coming in flying after the whistle blows. Every game i watched yesterday you saw two officials hang back to watch the ball in case of a tie-up, time out. Actually saw one ref grant a TO to a coach during a live ball (not supposed to).

Its just like in football, when there is a sideline involved there are always 2 officials ruling on it. They make sure they have the most important part "the ball" in site and can make a ruling. Those 3 officials screwed the pooch on that call. I am sure their review session was not a good one. Remember they also had the missed Shot Clock Violation as well in OT.
 
they will but you will never admit it.youll come back on here saying they did not do anything like i said. the ref hanging around half court is trying to watch both.
As I said I would I watched some basketball last night and caught the end of the Cal vs Arizona game. Cal was pressing full court. Arizona inbounded the ball ironically into the same corner the Hawks did. One official on the baseline and another located across from the foul line in front of the team bench. Mid court line nowhere in sight. Huge difference than at Minnesota. Number of players in backcourt were the same.
 
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As I said I would I watched some basketball last night and caught the end of the Cal vs Arizona game. Cal was pressing full court. Arizona inbounded the ball ironically into the same corner the Hawks did. One official on the baseline and another located across from the foul line in front of the team bench. Mid court line nowhere in sight. Huge difference than at Minnesota. Number of players in backcourt were the same.

you are not going to get this Papa Ref fellow to agree...he is either siding with his own kind of 20 years ago....or he was a really bad official...or he is full of it.

I spoke with a high school coach in the last few days ... he thinks that Larry had no business leaving the scene as soon as he did & left Beaver hanging under the basket..he also totally agrees with you ..there is no official out there that would suggest "2" refs hanging out at mid court is proper officiating considering the ball wasn't even close to midcourt & considering the game situation...Iowa up 2 with the ball.

He thinks Larry Scrota screwed up more so then Beaver.
 
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release or rim.

Again every official I have talked to said their should of been 2 guys on the ball. The 1 official (Wymer) could of handled the other 4-5 players because they are not a "threat" to get the ball. If Scorotto was at half court, it took him a while to get to the ball then. I thought he would be faster than that. Because you see him coming in flying after the whistle blows. Every game i watched yesterday you saw two officials hang back to watch the ball in case of a tie-up, time out. Actually saw one ref grant a TO to a coach during a live ball (not supposed to).

Its just like in football, when there is a sideline involved there are always 2 officials ruling on it. They make sure they have the most important part "the ball" in site and can make a ruling. Those 3 officials screwed the pooch on that call. I am sure their review session was not a good one. Remember they also had the missed Shot Clock Violation as well in OT.

this...
 
Same situation and same time on the clock in the Wiscy/NW game. McIntosh gets the ball in the corner puts it in his stomach and whistle blows............FOUL. Almost laughed but made me sick again about not getting that call the other night.
 
Funny. Never seen you around this board before, now you are here fire breathing against Iowa and trying way too hard to put Iowa fans in their place. You are no hawk fan.
what ever . not breathing fire against the team ,love this team,fun to watch. just trying to bring a reality check to the chosen few who are into conspiracy theories and think the refs are always after us. not sure how i have put anyone in their place, i have an opinion just like you do. by the way you are the one attacking me.
 
As I said I would I watched some basketball last night and caught the end of the Cal vs Arizona game. Cal was pressing full court. Arizona inbounded the ball ironically into the same corner the Hawks did. One official on the baseline and another located across from the foul line in front of the team bench. Mid court line nowhere in sight. Huge difference than at Minnesota. Number of players in backcourt were the same.
sure ,ok. just like i said.
 
what ever . not breathing fire against the team ,love this team,fun to watch. just trying to bring a reality check to the chosen few who are into conspiracy theories and think the refs are always after us. not sure how i have put anyone in their place, i have an opinion just like you do. by the way you are the one attacking me.

Bull shit. You haven't put anyone in their place. You have been exposed. Not attacking you. Just think it is pathetic you call yourself a hawk fan. All of your post on this site have been making an ass out of yourself defending yourself he pathetic call the other night. Weird for someone that claims to be an Iowa fan, don't you think?
 
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I don't like the way review is implemented in the NFL and MLB. In both cases I'd prefer they review everything that looks close, outside of penalties in football. And, review them without requiring one team to throw a hanky on the field requesting a review, look at it automatically. In both football and baseball, you have plenty of built in time to make a review possible. If it's close and you need extra time, halt the game. Once you determine a call was wrong, you only have to fix that one play.

Basketball is a completely different animal. The nature of the continuous action makes complete review nearly impossible. Want to review any possible stepping on the sideline or baseline, ok, do that. However, what are you going to do when that possibly happened on a fast break and a dead ball doesn't happen for four more possessions and 4 scores. They can't review during the live ball time and if they review and find a player did step on a sideline during the first scoring play, how do they handle the next 90 seconds of game time that saw 7 more points scored? Wipe it all out and start the clock over?

What is and isn't reviewable and how it's ruled on definitely need tweaked. Getting rid of it at the highest level, like the P5 conferences, the post season tourneys, the NBA is a bad idea. The first time a player hits a shot that's obviously after a shot clock or with :00, everyone, including people in this thread, will complain to high heaven that it should have been reviewed and overruled.
Its easy. Rules call for review only during the last two minutes of the half and of the game. If the ball is to change hands on a dead ball,,,,,review it.
 
ok buckwheat nobody can communicate a timeout it must be called by someone on the floor. the point of the 18 TOs to go along with 40% FG shooting is that if we have 5 less TOs that could be 6 to 8 more points along with the fact if we make 45% FGs that is 5 to 7 more points and we are not in a position where a missed call (they did miss the foot ) hurts. grow up we beat ourselves.
And if minnisota has 5 more turn overs we win...what's your point? Two turnovers were on ridiculous charging calls and a third on the jump ball. So now only 15 actual turn overs,,,,now what?
 
Bull shit. You haven't put anyone in their place. You have been exposed. Not attacking you. Just think it is pathetic you call yourself a hawk fan. All of your post on this site have been making an ass out of yourself defending yourself he pathetic call the other night. Weird for someone that claims to be an Iowa fan, don't you think?
Bull shit. You haven't put anyone in their place. You have been exposed. Not attacking you. Just think it is pathetic you call yourself a hawk fan. All of your post on this site have been making an ass out of yourself defending yourself he pathetic call the other night. Weird for someone that claims to be an Iowa fan, don't you think?
objective hawkeye fan. my bad on the previous post i meant to say i have not put anyone in their place i apologize. your not attacking me but you tell me i am pathetic and i have made an ass out of myself with all my posts. ( not even close to being the truth.) i dont feel like i have defended the call as much as i have pointed out the obvious, i have stated that he missed the foot out of bounds that hurt. something to remember about officiating we are asking 45 to 60year old men to keep up with 17 to 23 year olds who work out daily to keep in shape. i still feel like beaver was in position, was he in prefect position, no. he was working his way toward brady, by the time he could hear or see brady mouth or say timeout murphy had tied up the ball. sorry dude regardless of what you think i love my hawks.
 
And if minnisota has 5 more turn overs we win...what's your point? Two turnovers were on ridiculous charging calls and a third on the jump ball. So now only 15 actual turn overs,,,,now what?
regardless of how you spin it we had 18 TOs. if gophers have 5 more TOs we probably win.
 
release or rim.

Again every official I have talked to said their should of been 2 guys on the ball. The 1 official (Wymer) could of handled the other 4-5 players because they are not a "threat" to get the ball. If Scorotto was at half court, it took him a while to get to the ball then. I thought he would be faster than that. Because you see him coming in flying after the whistle blows. Every game i watched yesterday you saw two officials hang back to watch the ball in case of a tie-up, time out. Actually saw one ref grant a TO to a coach during a live ball (not supposed to).

Its just like in football, when there is a sideline involved there are always 2 officials ruling on it. They make sure they have the most important part "the ball" in site and can make a ruling. Those 3 officials screwed the pooch on that call. I am sure their review session was not a good one. Remember they also had the missed Shot Clock Violation as well in OT.
even if scorotto had been closer to the ball bradys back would have been to him and he would not have seen him call timeout. sorry dude football is a much different sport. you cannot have 2 officials covering the same sideline all it takes one cross court pass and one guy is really out of position.
 
even if scorotto had been closer to the ball bradys back would have been to him and he would not have seen him call timeout. sorry dude football is a much different sport. you cannot have 2 officials covering the same sideline all it takes one cross court pass and one guy is really out of position.
i am curious what your official buddies mean by 2 guys on the ball?
 
even if scorotto had been closer to the ball bradys back would have been to him and he would not have seen him call timeout. sorry dude football is a much different sport. you cannot have 2 officials covering the same sideline all it takes one cross court pass and one guy is really out of position.

Its knowing the situation. Iowa wasn't going to "fast break" in that situation. Shot clock was off and they are up 2. You really think they are going to "risk" a cross court pass? Those guys were out of position hands down. They screwed the pooch on that call. Scorotto was no where in site, but even if Brady's back was to him, he would of noticed Baer running in and grated the TO. Scorotto and Wymer weren't even looking at the ball or the area. They took off down floor and were not knowing the situation.

Sucks it costed Iowa a W, but be thankful its during a "rebuilding" year.
 
i am curious what your official buddies mean by 2 guys on the ball?

2 guys cover the area where the ball is. Whats the point of covering 70+ft away? Nothing, if the ball is not a threat to the area. Even if they throw a long pass, you still have time to re-cover and plus 1 official is "off" the ball and would be able to cover.
 
Its knowing the situation. Iowa wasn't going to "fast break" in that situation. Shot clock was off and they are up 2. You really think they are going to "risk" a cross court pass? Those guys were out of position hands down. They screwed the pooch on that call. Scorotto was no where in site, but even if Brady's back was to him, he would of noticed Baer running in and grated the TO. Scorotto and Wymer weren't even looking at the ball or the area. They took off down floor and were not knowing the situation.

Sucks it costed Iowa a W, but be thankful its during a "rebuilding" year.
the problem with giving baer a time out is as an official i am going to look at baer see the time out request then i have to find the ball and see what is going on with the ball, is it in the air being passed or has a a minnesota player tied it up already ? the likely answer is that by the time i see baers request the ball was tied up by murphy. the problem with not covering the whole floor is that a minnesota player could be grabbing a handful of jersey in front court preventing an iowa player from coming to backcourt to help. the rule book and case book tell officials to cover the WHOLE floor.
 
the problem with giving baer a time out is as an official i am going to look at baer see the time out request then i have to find the ball and see what is going on with the ball, is it in the air being passed or has a a minnesota player tied it up already ? the likely answer is that by the time i see baers request the ball was tied up by murphy. the problem with not covering the whole floor is that a minnesota player could be grabbing a handful of jersey in front court preventing an iowa player from coming to backcourt to help. the rule book and case book tell officials to cover the WHOLE floor.
OH, well that explains everything then. I never realized that officials could only see one thing and one player at a time and had no perifial vision. Here i though the main issue was, as you stated, no one could see what was happening with the ball so instead of looking at or seeing any of the 3 IA players calling time out, none of whom they could see according to you, they just took a guess and called it as they wanted it to be. I thought your premise was that the officials needed to be at half court so they can see everything that may happen. That does preclude seeing any player signaling for time out of course because they had to be watching for a player grabbing someone's jersey down at the other end of the court. Makes perfect sense now. Using your words and your logic.
 
OH, well that explains everything then. I never realized that officials could only see one thing and one player at a time and had no perifial vision. Here i though the main issue was, as you stated, no one could see what was happening with the ball so instead of looking at or seeing any of the 3 IA players calling time out, none of whom they could see according to you, they just took a guess and called it as they wanted it to be. I thought your premise was that the officials needed to be at half court so they can see everything that may happen. That does preclude seeing any player signaling for time out of course because they had to be watching for a player grabbing someone's jersey down at the other end of the court. Makes perfect sense now. Using your words and your logic.
as an official i can not depend on my peripheral vision to come to a conclusion without guessing.see time out signal, find ball to make sure the ball is not being passed to another player because if the ball is in the air i can not call a time out , their is no possession of the ball during a pass or has the ball already been tied up. i never said that that nobody saw a time out being requested . they probably did but by the time they see request find out what is going on at the ball the tie up has probably occurred. the still pictures that have been posted clearly show that murphy is blocking beavers vision of brady asking time out. when brady decided to take 2 dribbles into the corner he made everything much harder to read from an official point of view. never said at any time that official needed to be at halfcourt to see everything. beavers was on the baseline scrotto was at halfcourt ( he should be between the free throw line extended and halfcourt, which he was ) the 3rd ref should be on the opposite sideline between halfcourt and free throw line extended. all 3 official can not watch the ball major no-no.
 
the problem with giving baer a time out is as an official i am going to look at baer see the time out request then i have to find the ball and see what is going on with the ball, is it in the air being passed or has a a minnesota player tied it up already ? the likely answer is that by the time i see baers request the ball was tied up by murphy. the problem with not covering the whole floor is that a minnesota player could be grabbing a handful of jersey in front court preventing an iowa player from coming to backcourt to help. the rule book and case book tell officials to cover the WHOLE floor.
You just can't seem to recognize reality on this play. At least three players were calling for a timeout, BEFORE anyone could argue that there was a tie up. I think that officials often are too generous granting timeouts, but in this case there was clear possession by Ellingson and for a couple of seconds, which is a long time in BB, while Iowa was asking for a timeout. The officials just choked and then went with the most popular call for the home team.
 
you are not going to get this Papa Ref fellow to agree...he is either siding with his own kind of 20 years ago....or he was a really bad official...or he is full of it.

I spoke with a high school coach in the last few days ... he thinks that Larry had no business leaving the scene as soon as he did & left Beaver hanging under the basket..he also totally agrees with you ..there is no official out there that would suggest "2" refs hanging out at mid court is proper officiating considering the ball wasn't even close to midcourt & considering the game situation...Iowa up 2 with the ball.

He thinks Larry Scrota screwed up more so then Beaver.

You just can't seem to recognize reality on this play. At least three players were calling for a timeout, BEFORE anyone could argue that there was a tie up. I think that officials often are too generous granting timeouts, but in this case there was clear possession by Ellingson and for a couple of seconds, which is a long time in BB, while Iowa was asking for a timeout. The officials just choked and then went with the most popular call for the home team.
i cant just give a time out because a player is signaling for one. i have to find out where the ball is and what is going on with the ball. sorry dude nobody asked for a time out till it looked like the ball was going to be tied up.
 
I understand that you have now invested hours making your argument, so you want to stick with it, but you are wrong and your experience as an official doesn't change that.
 
Funny. Never seen you around this board before, now you are here fire breathing against Iowa and trying way too hard to put Iowa fans in their place. You are no hawk fan.

I'm not going to waste my time, but if you want you can click on the number of posts he has in his profile and see them all.
 
i cant just give a time out because a player is signaling for one. i have to find out where the ball is and what is going on with the ball. sorry dude nobody asked for a time out till it looked like the ball was going to be tied up.

you have lost all creditability .. so nobody called TO til it "LOOKED LIKE" the ball was going to be tied up (NOT that the ball was tied up?)......so players" are calling for TO but as an official (that you claim you were)...you cant grant it because nobody called for the timeout til it looked like the ball was going to be tied..

so let me get this straight...player ask for a timeout...you as an experienced ref,,,says sorry I cant grant it because it LOOKS like you are going to be tied up..

you really are a piece of work...and I'll say it again...IF...you were a high school official you must have been really bad.
 
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