The future of the NCAA: Jim Moran

[DrVenkman]

I got into a discussion last night with some folks who are, lets say, less than big fans of the NCAA in general. One was from the DC area and brought up that Jim Moran, recently retired Congressman from northern Virgina, had started a commission to look into the inner workings of the NCAA. Moran had been outspoken about the fact that in 40 states the highest paid public employee was a college coach- either football or basketball. The details of this are debateble as in many cases the actual $$ going to the coach is not coming from taxes or from the Universities operating budget. However the gap between these coaches and the number 2 paid employee is enormous.

I read in Moran's report that only 20 football programs in the FCS cover their costs on an operating basis. Making the theory that, paying these coaches as such was for the greater good of the school, irrelevant.

I love college athletics but how far should this go? Are there other economic factors that we should be considering in looking at the big picture. Or is it just a sad fact that college athletics is the only area where there is this much competition while to get top educators, professors, or pension senior investment officers is only a fraction of the cost?

http://www.politifact.com/virginia/...ran-says-college-coaches-are-highest-paid-pu/

 

[theIowaHawk]

I'd have no problem limiting the pay of public college head coaches. You bring up one of the issues, that a lot of it is donation. Limit, say Nick Saban's, salary to $300k, there are still enormous donors willing to bump it to $10M. Also, IF an athletic program, such as football, can be self-sustaining, what the is the reason for siphoning off? Obviously one good reason is to support other athletics, which is what happens now. Should it be increased? I'd be on board, just off the top of my head, let's say we require AD's to distribute 50% of all profits, or something of the like, to the other programs.

Iowa is our public university, I'm fully on board with putting financial restraints on its football program. A lot of people are not, win at all cost (unless its paying KF, they hate that).

 

[strummingram]

"Amateur Athletics"...

 

[theIowaHawk]

I take the opposite approach strumm, let's do what it takes to make it amateur again.

 

[strummingram]

You'd have to go back to maybe the early 20th century. That's never happening. Amateur athletics hasn't existed in college sports in... 80 years or so? Do you really think you're going to undo a multi-billion dollar industry? No way, no day!

Watch the new 30 for 30 called "Sole Man" and Sonny Vaccaro. The NCAA and college sports is a refined form of slavery. You never pay the workers a penny, but you give them room, board, clothing (nice new Nike and Adidas shoes and clothes), and then if they get caught making a buck, you take their scholarship, kick them out of school and ruin their lives. But, the colleges, the coaches, the staff, ESPN, the NCAA are millionaires.

 

[Wahawk56]

You'd have to go back to maybe the early 20th century. That's never happening. Amateur athletics hasn't existed in college sports in... 80 years or so? Do you really think you're going to undo a multi-billion dollar industry? No way, no day!

Watch the new 30 for 30 called "Sole Man" and Sonny Vaccaro. The NCAA and college sports is a refined form of slavery. You never pay the workers a penny, but you give them room, board, clothing (nice new Nike and Adidas shoes and clothes), and then if they get caught making a buck, you take their scholarship, kick them out of school and ruin their lives. But, the colleges, the coaches, the staff, ESPN, the NCAA are millionaires.

Slavery? Ha, they get a free piece of paper which you can't put a value on.

 

[strummingram]

Slavery? Ha, they get a free piece of paper which you can't put a value on.

Yeah, cuz it has no value. These kids are not sent to school for their academic prowess or their math skills. They aren't recruited because they are multi-lingual. They aren't 5-star recruits because they got a 1400 on their SAT's.

 

[HawkAttackDial911]

Yeah, that piece of paper is essentially worthless when they can't speak a full coherent sentence and can't do the job they were supposedly educated to do in college.

 

[DrVenkman]

You'd have to go back to maybe the early 20th century. That's never happening. Amateur athletics hasn't existed in college sports in... 80 years or so? Do you really think you're going to undo a multi-billion dollar industry? No way, no day!

Watch the new 30 for 30 called "Sole Man" and Sonny Vaccaro. The NCAA and college sports is a refined form of slavery. You never pay the workers a penny, but you give them room, board, clothing (nice new Nike and Adidas shoes and clothes), and then if they get caught making a buck, you take their scholarship, kick them out of school and ruin their lives. But, the colleges, the coaches, the staff, ESPN, the NCAA are millionaires.

I agree with a lot of what you say even though I think slavery is a bit much. The NCAA is clearly going in the direction of fostering the status quo as they are now allowing for and setting monetary stipends for scholarship athletes above and beyond their total scholarship coverage. Somehow the NCAA has put themselves in the position of determining what the 'extra' costs are for students at their respective schools. I can not understand how this is acceptable by the universities. It says even more that the institutions are going along with it.

 

[strummingram]

I agree with a lot of what you say even though I think slavery is a bit much. The NCAA is clearly going in the direction of fostering the status quo as they are now allowing for and setting monetary stipends for scholarship athletes above and beyond their total scholarship coverage. Somehow the NCAA has put themselves in the position of determining what the 'extra' costs are for students at their respective schools. I can not understand how this is acceptable by the universities. It says even more that the institutions are going along with it.

Slavery in the context of what we understood it to be in the 19th Century is a stretch, sure. These kids aren't being forced to play sports against their will. But... it has similarities. I object to this denial of it being "amateur." The hypocrisy is enormous. The denial is even bigger. Then I see these coaches who vehemently oppose anything resembling paying the players. They pocket millions of dollars and are so self-righteous to insist that it's still "amateur athletics" as if "getting paid" is beneath them morally and corrupts the game and the institutions. Meanwhile the corruptions are firmly in-place and the repercussions of violations are as varied as the colors of the rainbow. These kids are not being recruited for their educational potential at all. It would be nice to see the people involved stop acting like it is when they're "on the record."

 

[SoDakHawk]

Not slavery, more like indentured servants.

I really don't have a problem with the current system, just need some tweeks and some rules enforced. Hard to argue that we need more rules (for society in general, for the NCAA in this circumstance) when the rules on the books are not being equally enforced. Another thing is to enforce the academic integrity of the student athletes. Funny how the standards get lowered when a kid can really ball, and the efforts that are made to keep the kid eligible. Just enforce the dang rules, minimum (and higher than current standards) SAT/ACT and GPA to get through the clearinghouse and the student-athlete must progress towards a degree. Put all NCAA institutions on the same playing field as well, no more disparity between conferences. The NCAA could also get rid of one and dones and make a statement they are for education by making freshman ineligible for competition in all sports. Sure, rosters and scholarship limits would likely need to expand but think of all the good that would be done by just bringing back that simple rule. Freshman would have to prove their academic accumen for a full year before they can ever think of seeing the field/court and it also gives them a much needed adjustment period. Colleges would adjust their recruiting accordingly if there were increased academic requirements and scrutiny.

As far as the money goes, I don't care if the schools and coaches make a ton of money. Just make sure the kids who enter the program graduate with a meaningful degree. It's the best way you can compensate them and something that will pay way more dividends than a simple stipend. A stipend is nothing more than a cheap payoff and the easy way out for these schools.

 

[strummingram]

Not slavery, more like indentured servants.

I really don't have a problem with the current system, just need some tweeks and some rules enforced. Hard to argue that we need more rules (for society in general, for the NCAA in this circumstance) when the rules on the books are not being equally enforced. Another thing is to enforce the academic integrity of the student athletes. Funny how the standards get lowered when a kid can really ball, and the efforts that are made to keep the kid eligible. Just enforce the dang rules, minimum (and higher than current standards) SAT/ACT and GPA to get through the clearinghouse and the student-athlete must progress towards a degree. Put all NCAA institutions on the same playing field as well, no more disparity between conferences. The NCAA could also get rid of one and dones and make a statement they are for education by making freshman ineligible for competition in all sports. Sure, rosters and scholarship limits would likely need to expand but think of all the good that would be done by just bringing back that simple rule. Freshman would have to prove their academic accumen for a full year before they can ever think of seeing the field/court and it also gives them a much needed adjustment period. Colleges would adjust their recruiting accordingly if there were increased academic requirements and scrutiny.

As far as the money goes, I don't care if the schools and coaches make a ton of money. Just make sure the kids who enter the program graduate with a meaningful degree. It's the best way you can compensate them and something that will pay way more dividends than a simple stipend. A stipend is nothing more than a cheap payoff and the easy way out for these schools.

I like all you said and agree with it! Especially the OAD aspect and trying to emphasize education. But, it will never happen because the NCAA, and all those involved, make too much money. It hasn't been about emphasizing education in... well, forever! Once money could be made (and that amount grew and grew) it was over. It's merely grown ever since. Just like with slavery in the 19th Century South; even if they had a moral issue with it as individuals, they were not giving up their way of life because it was too profitable.

 

[bagdropper]

Yeah, cuz it has no value. These kids are not sent to school for their academic prowess or their math skills. They aren't recruited because they are multi-lingual. They aren't 5-star recruits because they got a 1400 on their SAT's.

That's the individual players' fault.

 

[SSG T]

Yeah, cuz it has no value. These kids are not sent to school for their academic prowess or their math skills. They aren't recruited because they are multi-lingual. They aren't 5-star recruits because they got a 1400 on their SAT's.

While I agree with your overall point, 95-98% of those athletes are there to get an education, even if their dream is the NFL/NBA/MLB/etc. Don't lump every NCAA D1 athlete in with the one and dones.

 

[SSG T]

I take the opposite approach strumm, let's do what it takes to make it amateur again.

Their not going back to the 1940's again. NCAA Football, basketball and to a point baseball and hockey are big business. The only way to get back to where it once was if for Congress to get involved, and I'm not sure too many Congressmen or Senators would survive the fallout of making D1 athletics look like D3 athletics again.

 

[Hawk-A-Doodle-Doo]

What?

Someone had to do it.

 

[strummingram]

That's the individual players' fault.

I'm not denying the player's/athlete's culpability. I'm mostly just railing at the denial of those who are making billions and calling it amateur.