The insane vaccine debate

[dgordo]

More liberal circle jerking from RottenHawk and clan! Roll out a "fact check" on efficacy when UK and Israel results show they've been shit already! Don't need studies and horseshit when we just use the whole population to perform the studies! Damn once again that real world data does seem to trump all these studies.

Don't look now, but those treatment shots are really working in the Northeast. Prepare for that awesome winter! Get those 3 weeks booster shots ready!

United Kingdom COVID - Coronavirus Statistics - Worldometer

United Kingdom Coronavirus update with statistics and graphs: total and new cases, deaths per day, mortality and recovery rates, current active cases, recoveries, trends and timeline.

www.worldometers.info

look how few deaths they have now, vaccines are working very well.

portugal has vaccinated almost 85%, basically no more deaths

Portugal COVID - Coronavirus Statistics - Worldometer

Portugal Coronavirus update with statistics and graphs: total and new cases, deaths per day, mortality and recovery rates, current active cases, recoveries, trends and timeline.

www.worldometers.info

 

[your_master5]

Interesting thoughts I'm having:

My daughter and her fiancé are both vaccinated...both caught the Delta strain and recovered at home with a few minor symptoms. Our PTA President's brother caught C19 Delta (he's 32 and pretty healthy) and died yesterday. Sure, there are stories of the exact opposite, but are they the norm or outliers?

I have my Pfizer shot and still haven't gotten C19, and I live in San Antonio which is always a hot spot.

1. The comparison was made to the polio vaccine. Totally different disease and totally different vaccine. It's a horrible comparison. Vaccinated people are dying still from covid are they not?

2. 99% of people don't die from covid, so giving examples of folks who have died is an emotional argument. My response would be did that person receive any treatment prior to being hospitalized? Doubt it.

 

[your_master5]

United Kingdom COVID - Coronavirus Statistics - Worldometer

United Kingdom Coronavirus update with statistics and graphs: total and new cases, deaths per day, mortality and recovery rates, current active cases, recoveries, trends and timeline.

www.worldometers.info

look how few deaths they have now, vaccines are working very well.

Seasonality plays a massive role in outcomes. Vaccines did not work as advertised when more deaths and cases in the UK occurred with the vaccinated in the latest round. That's not a vaccine.

 

[RileyHawk]

1. The comparison was made to the polio vaccine. Totally different disease and totally different vaccine. It's a horrible comparison. Vaccinated people are dying still from covid are they not?

2. 99% of people don't die from covid, so giving examples of folks who have died is an emotional argument. My response would be did that person receive any treatment prior to being hospitalized? Doubt it.

Yes - 1% of 330,000,000 dying is no big deal. SMFH

You and shank are the biggest conspiracy theory losers I've ever come across. You guys win the tin foil crown.

 

[alaskanseminole]

2. 99% of people don't die from covid, so giving examples of folks who have died is an emotional argument. My response would be did that person receive any treatment prior to being hospitalized? Doubt it.

99% is skewed. If I told you 10 people got COVID and 99% didn't die, then okay. But we're not talking about 10 people are we? As I posted in one of the other 1K threads on this, let's assume ALL data is accurate (for the U.S.)

- 700K people have died from C19 (out of millions)
- 8K people have died from the C19 vaccine (out of millions of doses)

I'd rather take my chances with the vaccine--and did.

 

[tarheelbybirth]

Because maybe, just maybe they actually worked??? Compared to this shit?

There should be an entire chapter just on you.

 

[your_master5]

Yes - 1% of 330,000,000 dying is no big deal. SMFH

You and shank are the biggest conspiracy theory losers I've ever come across. You guys win the tin foil crown.

Oh yes conspiracy theories on shit that doesn't actually work as a vaccine! All shank and I have to do is let the madness play out and you libs go into a frenzy!

Keep on going with your no big deal! How many of all those folks that passed were in the last months of their lives because they were old or had comorbidities?? Keep on spewing without context!

 

[your_master5]

There should be an entire chapter just on you.

Lol I bet Al Franken is your hero!! Holy crap this explains a LOT!

 

[tarheelbybirth]

99% is skewed. If I told you 10 people got COVID and 99% didn't die, then okay. But we're not talking about 10 people are we? As I posted in one of the other 1K threads on this, let's assume ALL data is accurate (for the U.S.)

- 700K people have died from C19 (out of millions)
- 8K people have died from the C19 vaccine (out of millions of doses)

I'd rather take my chances with the vaccine--and did.

From the CDC - FWIW:

Reports of death after COVID-19 vaccination are rare. More than 390 million doses of COVID-19 vaccines were administered in the United States from December 14, 2020, through September 27, 2021. During this time, VAERS received 8,164 reports of death (0.0021%) among people who received a COVID-19 vaccine. FDA requires healthcare providers to report any death after COVID-19 vaccination to VAERS, even if it’s unclear whether the vaccine was the cause. Reports of adverse events to VAERS following vaccination, including deaths, do not necessarily mean that a vaccine caused a health problem. A review of available clinical information, including death certificates, autopsy, and medical records, has not established a causal link to COVID-19 vaccines (emphasis mine). However, recent reports indicate a plausible causal relationship between the J&J/Janssen COVID-19 Vaccine and TTS, a rare and serious adverse event—blood clots with low platelets—which has caused deaths.

As they say, correlation is not causation. People gonna die. Sometimes they even die after getting vaccinated. So, in reality, the numbers are even better than you stated.

 

[alaskanseminole]

From the CDC - FWIW:

Reports of death after COVID-19 vaccination are rare. More than 390 million doses of COVID-19 vaccines were administered in the United States from December 14, 2020, through September 27, 2021. During this time, VAERS received 8,164 reports of death (0.0021%) among people who received a COVID-19 vaccine. FDA requires healthcare providers to report any death after COVID-19 vaccination to VAERS, even if it’s unclear whether the vaccine was the cause. Reports of adverse events to VAERS following vaccination, including deaths, do not necessarily mean that a vaccine caused a health problem. A review of available clinical information, including death certificates, autopsy, and medical records, has not established a causal link to COVID-19 vaccines (emphasis mine). However, recent reports indicate a plausible causal relationship between the J&J/Janssen COVID-19 Vaccine and TTS, a rare and serious adverse event—blood clots with low platelets—which has caused deaths.

As they say, correlation is not causation. People gonna die. Sometimes they even die after getting vaccinated. So, in reality, the numbers are even better than you stated.

Remember, though, we're dealing with people who think like this:

Just because you died WITH COVID doesn't mean you died FROM COVID. Those very same people think that EVERY death reported in VAERS is 100% accurate, though (hence why I stated above we'll assume that ALL data is accurate).

They refused to accept that just because you died WITH the vaccine doesn't mean you died FROM the vaccine.

 

[alaskanseminole]

Oh yes conspiracy theories on shit that doesn't actually work as a vaccine!

proof the vaccine doesn't work.

I'll go first:

2021-12-30 15:27 | Archive of HHS.gov

www.hhs.gov

 

[shank hawk]

The posts erroneously claim the article was a “peer reviewed study”, when it was actually a commentary by Piero Olliaro, Els Torreele and Michel Vaillant on April 20, featured in the Lancet Microbe here .

When asked about the claim, Olliaro, professor of poverty related infectious diseases at the Centre for Tropical Medicine and Global Health of Oxford University ( here ) told Reuters via email it was “extremely disappointing to see how information can be twisted.” He also said, “Bottom line: these vaccines are good public health interventions,” and added that in the commentary, “We do not say vaccines do not work.”

I guess HROT isn’t the only place with goalpost movers.

Maybe the lead author of the Lancet study, errrr ‘commentary’, should be more careful with how he chooses his words.

Seems more like a guy who was called out by his corporate sugar daddies for not pimping the vaccines adequately.

 

[alaskanseminole]

I guess HROT isn’t the only place with goalpost movers.

Maybe the lead author of the Lancet study, errrr ‘commentary’, should be more careful with how he chooses his words.

Seems more like a guy who was called out by his corporate sugar daddies for not pimping the vaccines adequately.

curiosity question.

Do you have any other vaccines coursing through your body? Are you anti-vax, or just anti-C19 vax? I would like to set my crazy meter to the right setting when conversing with you.

 

[dgordo]

I guess HROT isn’t the only place with goalpost movers.

Maybe the lead author of the Lancet study, errrr ‘commentary’, should be more careful with how he chooses his words.

Seems more like a guy who was called out by his corporate sugar daddies for not pimping the vaccines adequately.

im sure many things seems different to you.

 

[your_master5]

proof the vaccine doesn't work.

I'll go first:

2021-12-30 15:27 | Archive of HHS.gov

www.hhs.gov

That's not proof. Proof of vaccination would stop it cold. You're also using data from summertime. Let's see what happens in the winter. I bet you'll see MORE not less.

 

[globalhawk]

That's not proof. Proof of vaccination would stop it cold. You're also using data from summertime. Let's see what happens in the winter. I bet you'll see MORE not less.

You will see more cases. The vast majority will be unvaccinated.

 

[tarheelbybirth]

1. The comparison was made to the polio vaccine. Totally different disease and totally different vaccine. It's a horrible comparison. Vaccinated people are dying still from covid are they not?

2. 99% of people don't die from covid, so giving examples of folks who have died is an emotional argument. My response would be did that person receive any treatment prior to being hospitalized? Doubt it.

Well hell...only 1 out of 200 polio infections led to irreversible paralysis and less than 10% of those people die. And that includes third world cases. With the outstanding health care we have in the good ole USofA we don't even NEED a polio vaccine.




Dumbass.

 

[tarheelbybirth]

Lol I bet Al Franken is your hero!! Holy crap this explains a LOT!

And Goofy is your hero!! Holy crap, this explains EVERYTHING.

 

[your_master5]

Well hell...only 1 out of 200 polio infections led to irreversible paralysis and less than 10% of those people die. And that includes third world cases. With the outstanding health care we have in the good ole USofA we don't even NEED a polio vaccine.




Dumbass.

lol and this has anything to do with my post. Fvckstick

 

[your_master5]

And Goofy is your hero!! Holy crap, this explains EVERYTHING.

Dah

 

[shank hawk]

(READ) Bulletin: Federal employees to be compensated for Covid-19 vaccine injuries | Sharyl Attkisson

sharylattkisson.com

 

[tarheelbybirth]

What's the rate of myocarditis for infection? How many of those were severe? And or lead to death?

Heart inflammation triggered by some covid-19 vaccines has been a concern, especially in younger people, but a preliminary study suggests that in those most affected, it is six times more likely to occur after a coronavirus infection than after vaccination.

In the past few months, some cases of this condition, known as myocarditis, have been recorded following the use of the Pfizer/BioNTech and Moderna vaccines. This has prompted concern particularly in the US and Israel, as these two countries have led the way in vaccinating younger people.

The reaction happens most often in men and boys aged under 30 after their second dose, and is usually seen within 10 days, says Alma Iacob at Imperial College London. But many health bodies around the world say the benefits of vaccination still outweigh the risks for most people.

Now a study in the US has analysed how often myocarditis occurs following infection with the coronavirus. Researchers analysed the records of healthcare organisations that cover a fifth of the US population. They found that, during the first 12 months of the pandemic, males aged 12 to 17 were most likely to develop myocarditis within three months of catching covid-19, at a rate of about 450 cases per million infections.

This compares with 67 cases of myocarditis per million males of the same age following their second dose of a Pfizer/BioNTech or Moderna vaccine, according to figures from the US Advisory Committee on Immunization Practices. Researchers added together cases after first and second doses to reach a total rate of 77 cases per million in this male age group triggered by vaccination, a sixth that seen after infection.


Read more: https://www.newscientist.com/articl...-19-infection-than-vaccination/#ixzz79efgf1rj

 

[Joes Place]

Heart inflammation triggered by some covid-19 vaccines has been a concern, especially in younger people, but a preliminary study suggests that in those most affected, it is six times more likely to occur after a coronavirus infection than after vaccination.

In the past few months, some cases of this condition, known as myocarditis, have been recorded following the use of the Pfizer/BioNTech and Moderna vaccines. This has prompted concern particularly in the US and Israel, as these two countries have led the way in vaccinating younger people.

The reaction happens most often in men and boys aged under 30 after their second dose, and is usually seen within 10 days, says Alma Iacob at Imperial College London. But many health bodies around the world say the benefits of vaccination still outweigh the risks for most people.

Now a study in the US has analysed how often myocarditis occurs following infection with the coronavirus. Researchers analysed the records of healthcare organisations that cover a fifth of the US population. They found that, during the first 12 months of the pandemic, males aged 12 to 17 were most likely to develop myocarditis within three months of catching covid-19, at a rate of about 450 cases per million infections.

This compares with 67 cases of myocarditis per million males of the same age following their second dose of a Pfizer/BioNTech or Moderna vaccine, according to figures from the US Advisory Committee on Immunization Practices. Researchers added together cases after first and second doses to reach a total rate of 77 cases per million in this male age group triggered by vaccination, a sixth that seen after infection.


Read more: https://www.newscientist.com/articl...-19-infection-than-vaccination/#ixzz79efgf1rj

And, as I'd pointed out several times now: when you get a vaccination, they KNOW EXACTLY WHEN TO LOOK FOR MYOCARDITIS SYMPTOMS, which is NOT the case for those exposed to and who catch Covid, depending on their level of symptoms.

 

[unIowa]

Here is the thing on this vaccine: 1. Outside of Pfizer I don't think any other vaccine has received full FDA approval. 2. COVID isn't polio (I think we can all agree on that).

Who do I think can and likely should mandate the C19 vaccine:
1. Employers as part of their terms of employment (this would include govt employees being mandated by their govt employer)
2. Insurance companies (at the very least they should be able to "up charge" to those who do not show proof of vaccination as they need to be able to underwrite the risk of not being vaccinated accordingly). If we really wanted a good, clear picture, of the risk of going unvaccinated let these insurance underwriters tell us via an added premium rider. They don't care about your politics, only the facts and figures, and really these should be the people ending the debate for us via our pocketbooks.

I don't think the govt, federal or state, at this point should be mandating the COVID vaccine to the general population, let these morons choose to stay unvaccinated.

 

[Joes Place]

Here is the thing on this vaccine: 1. Outside of Pfizer I don't think any other vaccine has received full FDA approval. 2. COVID isn't polio (I think we can all agree on that).

It isn't measles, mumps, rubella or chickenpox, either. But we've mandated those for decades.

 

[unIowa]

It isn't measles, mumps, rubella or chickenpox, either. But we've mandated those for decades.

Times have changed since those vaccines were mandated, the govt was more of a trusted entity at that point. With C19 I think we can effectively vaccinate most of the population by focusing on peoples pocketbooks rather than a govt mandate.

 

[Joes Place]

Times have changed since those vaccines were mandated

Yes. The GOP has gone "full potato".
And Putin's Troll Farms have done a fabulous job of facilitating it.

 

[unIowa]

Yes. The GOP has gone "full potato".
And Putin's Troll Farms have done a fabulous job of facilitating it.

I don't disagree and it is why I think pocketbooks is the straightest path to further vaccine penetration rates.

 

[noleclone2]

The overwhelming majority of anti-vaccine arguments, for any disease, but just Covid have always been hysterical.

this is something that I truly blame the proliferation of social media, podcasts, that have allowed fringe lunatic theories to gain a wider audience.

This is a big part of it. And I still maintain we have multiple enemy states all setting up troll farms to fan the flames from their multiple fake accounts. Pretty fascinating really, how, enemies abroad and within are using our free speech against us using a platform nobody could have envisioned even 40 years ago. One can only imagine what the Nazi's would have done if Joseph Goebbels and the Japanese had access to Facebook and Twitter in the US...prolly would have been fighting alongside them....

The other bad thing with the broad dispersion and proliferation is people in that echo chamber get very hardened from admitting they have been fooled. Even the unvaccinated families decimated by their poor choices can't even admit they were fooled and made a major mistake.

Cliff Notes: It's a Cult.

 

[sober_teacher]

Times have changed since those vaccines were mandated, the govt was more of a trusted entity at that point. With C19 I think we can effectively vaccinate most of the population by focusing on peoples pocketbooks rather than a govt mandate.

What’s dumb about that though is that the arguments for not trusting the government on stuff like this haven’t really changed.

maybe the thing that has changed is that there’s a segment of the population that doesn’t seem to see preserving the public health as a function of government.

 

[unIowa]

What’s dumb about that though is that the arguments for not trusting the government on stuff like this haven’t really changed.

maybe the thing that has changed is that there’s a segment of the population that doesn’t seem to see preserving the public health as a function of government.

Are you guys most concerned about being right or about effectively vaccinating as much of the population as possible?

Carrots and Sticks guys and we have zoomed way past carrots (vaccine lotteries anyone) and onto sticks bc we have around 30% of our population that is wrapped up in lunatic conspiracy theory regarding this vaccine.

A govt mandate will only make them dig their heels in more and feed into their paranoia BUT if you take away their ability to put bread on the table (employer mandate) or you take money out of their wallet (insurance premium for not being vaccinated) then you put a large majority of this 30% into a corner where they will eventually relent bc they need that money.

THIS is the most effective 'stick' we have in today's society.

 

[sober_teacher]

Are you guys most concerned about being right or about effectively vaccinating as much of the population as possible?

Carrots and Sticks guys and we have zoomed way past carrots (vaccine lotteries anyone) and onto sticks bc we have around 30% of our population that is wrapped up in lunatic conspiracy theory regarding this vaccine.

A govt mandate will only make them dig their heels in more and feed into their paranoia BUT if you take away their ability to put bread on the table (employer mandate) or you take money out of their wallet (insurance premium for not being vaccinated) then you put a large majority of this 30% into a corner where they will eventually relent bc they need that money.

THIS is the most effective 'stick' we have in today's society.

Short term, you’re right. Long term, we’re just going to have this same argument over and over until EVERYONE can recognize on occasion that its okay to be wrong.

the problem with the anti-vaccine argument is that they keep moving the goalposts. WE KNOW, full stop, that the vaccines are effective. Barring individual exceptions or for the very young, there is no reason at this point to not get the vaccine. And yet people still push back.

 

[notlongago]

Showing proof you got vaccinated at 2 months old so that a school will let you attend in person IS NOT a mandate. Are you segregated in hotels and restaurants based on whether you got your polio shot? For those of you that think this has not gone overboard, you really have zero perspective on things.

Out of curiosity, what do you call it when vaccines are required to attend school then?

 

[notlongago]

Is polio the same thing? We are in a polio pandemic situation now?

FWIW, vaccine hesitancy was rampant during the polio epidemic as well. Just didnt have the lovely social media to document and divide people over it. These attitudes are nothing new, theyre just amplified due to ease of mass communication.

 

[notlongago]

I’m in favor of the vaccine, but not mandated. Just found out today why a co-worker has been out now for 4 weeks. He finally gave permission to my boss to disclose why. Negative reaction to the 2nd vaccine shot. Before anyone asks, it was not disclosed which brand. Obviously not J&J.

He’s been in and out of the hospital over the last 4 weeks, but more in than out. What we were informed of today, is that they can’t keep his platelet count high enough to release him. Platelets need to be around 100 and his are around 15. It was also noted that this reaction was very, very rare and that there are only a handful of cases similar to this in the US.

No, I don’t know if he had any pre-existing conditions that would have caused this reaction.

So while I agree that the vaccine is good for the overall population, it’s instances like this that keep me from agreeing with mandates. After this, does anyone think this guy should have to have the vaccine to work? Fly? Eat at restaurants? Go to concerts? How about his family members? Should they be mandated to get the vaccine?

And we need to stop relying on the exception to discount the rule. Vaccines all have rare side effects that can be quite damaging if you're unlucky enough to be one of the few. Its not something exclusive to the coid vax.

But it is interesting how their is one crowd who grasps at those rare occurrences regarding vaccines as justification, but then discounts covid because "deaths and hospitalizations are rare for my age group"

(for the record, im firmly against vaccine mandates, especially being directed from the federal level)

 

[notlongago]

The delivery methods have changed, but the message remains the same. Create the problem; offer the solution.

View embedded media

COVID-19 vaccine efficacy and effectiveness—the elephant (not) in the room

Approximately 96 COVID-19 vaccines are at various stages of clinical development.1 At present, we have the interim results of four studies published in scientific journals (on the Pfizer–BioNTech BNT162b2 mRNA vaccine,2 the Moderna–US National Institutes of Health [NIH] mRNA-1273 vaccine,3 the...

www.thelancet.com

Myo/Pericarditis

openvaers.com

How about this: when you find something you think reinforces your point, assume its wrong, fact check it, then post if you can't debunk it. I used to hope for your intervention in these petty threads, but now you are wrong so often and continue to perpetuate misleading, disingenuous, or outright lying information.

 

[Joes Place]

Out of curiosity, what do you call it when vaccines are required to attend school then?

That's a "child-date", not a mandate.
Something GOP lawmakers can ALL get behind...

 

[*33*]

Pe

FWIW, vaccine hesitancy was rampant during the polio epidemic as well. Just didnt have the lovely social media to document and divide people over it. These attitudes are nothing new, theyre just amplified due to ease of mass communication.

people being refused service or jobs is also not new. “Show your scar” was pretty common.

 

[shank hawk]

And here I thought Pharma had studied the shit out of this new technology for years. Guess the hospitals are on their own now to clean up the mess.

 

[Joes Place]

And here I thought Pharma had studied the shit out of this new technology for years. Guess the hospitals are on their own now to clean up the mess.

View embedded media

LOLWUT?

Studies on vaccine side effects are commonplace.
It's how we improve upon the effectiveness and safety of vaccines over time.