The keys to next years offensive growth...
- Thread starter Muskie5
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We have the 120th ranked offense. You (and others) are blaming that poor offense on the fact that we have 2 FR OTs playing. Any of the upperclassmen that these FR beat out, are in fact, busts. You can't have it both ways. If the reason the offense struggles is due to the poor play of FR tackles....what does that say about the other tackles that they beat out?
you mean that replacing players that were lost to injuries
Boettger
Myer
Lagrand = busts. boy it a good thing you are not a coach
We aren't talking about Boettger or Myers. YOU said that the Paulson twins and other upperclassmen, offensive linemen on the roster were NOT busts! YOU said the reason we have a poor offense is because we have 2 FR OTs playing. Either the 2 FR Tackles are the reason we have a poor offense and the upperclassmen they beat out for the spots - ARE BUSTS. Or the 2 FR tackles we have are NOT the reason our offense sucks and it's on Brian Ferentz. You choose.
It never ceases to amaze, the mental gymnastics some of these guys practice. Wouldn't it just be easier to admit the coaches failed to recruit better players? Boettger and Myers weren't good Tackles either. Were they on anyone's mock draft board? Heaven forbid we admit that KF failed at something. The world would stop spinning for some of these cretins.
You are totally correct. The one to Kittle that I was thinking of was actually in the 2015 game against Purdue. Thanks for the correction!
All the same, it was an audible - and a perfect one too. You see Kittle shifting back towards the line of scrimmage after the audible. He sells his blocking assignment ... and then he releases ... and the LB doesn't stick with him. CJ lofts the ball over the head of the LB ... and Kittle scampers for a 39 yard TD. It was pretty big too ... because it helped us to blow that game open.
It is a fair criticism to point that the unit will lack starts. However, consider that Ferg and LeGrand have been top back-ups for a while (prior to their respective injuries). They are certainly experienced within our blocking schemes ... and they carry with them bodies that will have been working in Doyle's weight room for over 4 years! (5th year SRs)
Levi saw quality snaps in '16 and has participated in 7 games this year - presumably on ST. He's stepped up big in games for us before - perhaps he'll do so again. Thus, he's another guy who is capable of helping out on the OL (most likely at OG).
Lastly, we almost always have at least one underclassman O-linemen who seems to step up and emerge on the OL. If I were to pick a guy to click and be the "emerger" for 2018, I'd guess Kallenberger.
Thus, as we look to the 2018 OL ... while the group may not be swimming with starts ... that doesn't mean that there isn't experience among the group.
I think people say that Iowa audibles just to change directions on plays because Iowa rarely changes formations when they audible. Seems to me that might be a decent thing to do at times since, well, Iowa almost never does it.
I think it's safe to assume that we all hope the coaching staff and players improve next year. For me, I hope Brian (#6) grows and improves the "pre-snap" part of the game.
Yes, That time right before you get to "play". Does Brian Ferentz consistently create winning offensive game plans? How are these plans implemented? Can these plans be administered more efficiently?
First and foremost the OC needs to get the play called and in the huddle(or formation)in a reasonable time frame. In a game filled with variables this shouldn't be one. This is controllable but yet it rears its ugly head at times. It's a stress multiplier to try and RUSH normal pre snap reads and movements. With a young offense the stress is magnified. This seems to manifest itself after big first downs, large gains or emotional downs. There seems to be more episodes on the road.
Audibles... are installed in conjunction with the weekly game plan. Some offenses have the built-in mechanics to "flip" the play from one side to another regardless of game plan. Iowa has appeared to show this functionality. So that begs the question....what audibles are available to Stanley? I'm sure formation, defensive scheme's and field position are limiting factors....with one exception... it appears the offense can only switch the play direction...And then, that, is usually to the weak side of the formation and/or into the boundary.
So "pre-snap", for me, is the moment the defense aligns itself to the formation with motion and/or shifts before the football is physically snapped.
**PRE SNAP** Here is where the schemes collide (The formation was the start). Last chance to change the x's and O's. The play was called as part of a game plan to attack the defense. Evaluate the defensive formation. Make decisions...AUDIBLE (do we have an appropriate one??)
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At this precise point everything is pure. There is no "holding on the left tackle or the WR hasn't dropped the pass".
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The EXECUTION part of the game resumes at the snap.
I'm just questioning if Stanley has all the tools he needs "pre-snap". If so, why aren't we getting into more efficient plays?
Yes, That time right before you get to "play". Does Brian Ferentz consistently create winning offensive game plans? How are these plans implemented? Can these plans be administered more efficiently?
First and foremost the OC needs to get the play called and in the huddle(or formation)in a reasonable time frame. In a game filled with variables this shouldn't be one. This is controllable but yet it rears its ugly head at times. It's a stress multiplier to try and RUSH normal pre snap reads and movements. With a young offense the stress is magnified. This seems to manifest itself after big first downs, large gains or emotional downs. There seems to be more episodes on the road.
Audibles... are installed in conjunction with the weekly game plan. Some offenses have the built-in mechanics to "flip" the play from one side to another regardless of game plan. Iowa has appeared to show this functionality. So that begs the question....what audibles are available to Stanley? I'm sure formation, defensive scheme's and field position are limiting factors....with one exception... it appears the offense can only switch the play direction...And then, that, is usually to the weak side of the formation and/or into the boundary.
So "pre-snap", for me, is the moment the defense aligns itself to the formation with motion and/or shifts before the football is physically snapped.
**PRE SNAP** Here is where the schemes collide (The formation was the start). Last chance to change the x's and O's. The play was called as part of a game plan to attack the defense. Evaluate the defensive formation. Make decisions...AUDIBLE (do we have an appropriate one??)
########
At this precise point everything is pure. There is no "holding on the left tackle or the WR hasn't dropped the pass".
########
The EXECUTION part of the game resumes at the snap.
I'm just questioning if Stanley has all the tools he needs "pre-snap". If so, why aren't we getting into more efficient plays?
Agree more than I disagree. To deny that there was no problem in recruiting the ol means you're in denial. It's the same with wr recruiting. The most generous description would be mediocre. Both Boettger and Myers were not good tackles, both should have played inside. They had to play tackle because of a void.
I wouldn't call Levi a bust just yet. He started a game last year as a redshirt freshman and looked pretty good. He has also been dinged with injuries this year. If he doesn't win Welsh's spot for next year then yes. He definitely enters the bust category.
Thank God we landed A Jackson, Wirfs and Kallenberger. It's awesome that the state is producing some good looking tackles for the future. Miller, Endres, Remsburg looks good in that class. A year behind is Volk from Xavier. Don't be surprised if Matt Fagan leaves his mark on the program.
The Hawks most certainly had some whiffs in their recruiting on the OL ... however, it would be equally foolish to ignore what we've seen out of guys like Myers and Boettger for the past few years. Have we suddenly forgotten that the 2015 season occurred? While there obviously had been issues in pass-pro ... the run blocking, at least at times, had truly been exemplary. Furthermore, in '15, Boettger and Myers were but SO first-year starters. They were joined in '15 by a fellow SO starter in Welsh too. That unit also benefitted from the emergence of Croston as a competent OT (and former walk-on) and Daniels as a talented and athletic up-and-comer. Of course, the "engine" of that '15 OL were the 2 SRs on our interior line - Blythe and Walsh.
The 'talent' angle tends to get overplayed by some fans and underplayed by others. If you read the Husker media ... they've been complaining for years about lacking the talent to stand up toe-to-toe with the Ohio States of the world. However, if you actually track recruiting ... you know that the Huskers continue to recruit at a high level. The 'problem' with the Huskers has largely dealt with player development AND with player investment. For whatever reason ... players sometimes believe what they hear from the "outside noise" more than what they hear from their coaches. Thus, that can lead players to erroneously mistrust the schemes that they're being asked to execute. This then can spread to the locker-room ... and can lead to full-fledged dissent on the team. You see, it's an attractive "excuse" for the players to believe ... it deflects blame from themselves and places it on the coaches.
As an educator, the tendency for a student to attempt to deflect blame is an all too common occurrence. For instance, when students talk about "trick questions" ... that actually is also another psychological deflection. Rather than blame themselves for not being adequately detail-oriented and understanding the material well-enough ... by claiming that a question was a "trick question" ... it's placing the blame on the teacher. Also there's a tendency for students to try to "passively" learn ... and so they'll say that they'll "try" to work on a problem. But what does that mean? You either do a problem or you don't do a problem. To simply "try" is again a psychological deflection ... because then it allows students to often just "phone in" their attempt AND it mitigates some of their feelings of inadequacy if they get the problem wrong. What those students fail to realize is that even if you DO a problem and you get it wrong (when you're fully invested) ... it affords you a much greater opportunity to improve because you care more about your performance. These circumstances are the ones where people tend to learn the MOST!
Not surprisingly, in football, players learn the most from observing what they do wrong on film-study ... that way they can alter their play accordingly and put up new tape ... and they can explicitly see the changes in their play. This is arguably the greatest contributor in how Josh Jackson went from "the guy behind Rugamba" ... to a potential draft candidate.
Josh Jackson also supplies an interesting example about recruiting too. Certainly, players MUST be talented for a team to execute at a very high level. Thus, this points to the importance of recruiting at a high level. However, if we look at Josh Jackson ... he's a guy who HAS all the measureables. He has speed, athleticism, and great length (for a CB). However, Josh Jackson was also only a 2-star recruit. How could that be? The TRUTH of the matter is that a base feature of all Iowa recruits is that the guy HAS to have the raw athleticism and growth potential ... to think that Iowa doesn't value that would be extremely foolish. However, where Iowa is different from most programs is that they'll recruit the athlete and DEVELOP the football player. This second-level of evaluating recruits is much harder and more subtle ... because you're essentially trying to project how well a guy can be receptive to coaching, how willing the guy will be to put in the hard work to improve, and how mentally tough the guy can be when he runs into adversity? When a guy gets passed by another player ... will he want to pack it in and transfer? When a guy gets injured ... will he have a successful rehab and remain focused? If a guy makes a mistake ... will he learn from it ... but NOT go into a shell?
This is why I dog people sometimes. How does me not agreeing with you and seeing recruiting differently mean that I am in 'denial'. You are in no position, not qualified to determine that someone is in 'denial'. It is just a badly veiled insult that you hope marginalizes others opinions. Just disagree and state your case for it, and leave that nonsense out of it.
They were not good tackles? Lol. Well somehow we went 12-0 with those 2 starting at tackles as sophs. I bet they improved since then and all the coaches and experts thought they would have big SR years and would get tryouts in the NFL. If you are judging every OT by Scherff or Bulaga, or Gallery, than almost every OT is not going to be 'very good'.
They were good in run blocking but not in pass pro. The '15 team had a very good defense. We ended the '15 season ranked 22nd in the country and that was after the Rose Bowl disaster. CJ played at a very high level in '15. If you believe there wasn't a failure in oline recruiting then we will have to agree to disagree. I love KF but there is reason to criticize, imo. Like I said the future is looking good going forward because of some better recruiting. Thanks for your input.
I would just like to point out that not everything that looks like an audible is actually an audible. When I coached we did a lot of "fake" audibles to get the defense to overplay. There were times we intentionally ran an audible a specific way to get the defense comfortable before we hit them with what we are really wanting to do, which 80% of the time ended up in a big yardage play or touchdown. Some might say that it is stupid to run intentionally into the defense with an audible, but sometimes you have to give them what they expect to get them on something bigger later. I'm not saying that is the case here, but it really is effective if you choose your spots during a game.
I'm not willing to give Brian Ferentz any slack. He's lived and breathed the KF offense for most of his life. His issues at OC are play calling and adjustments. That takes time and experience. KF basically gave him the position to learn on the job, while KF's contract and KF's good will protects him. He could get better at it, quickly but he might not. Some guys just don't have "that" type of coaching in them. Which isn't a negative. He might be a better Head Coach, than an OC.
The rest of the position groups will improve with experience, of course. But it will never be in the top 50 offensive rankings.
It's also important to note that KF agreed to divert more recruiting slots to the WR position, for Greg Davis to get some athletes for that horizontal passing game that he likes. They didn't work out, most of them transferred out and it cannibalized our depth at OL.
We had the 72nd ranked offense for 2015. Pass protection was awful and CJ paid the price in the beatings he took behind Myers and Boettger. CJ wasn't limping around for 2 years, for no reason.
It is worth saying again. NO ONE circa 2020 is going to be lining up to hire the next coach of the KF offense. If Brian wants to be an OC or HC he needs to create the Brian Ferentz Offense.
Agreed. The only real problem I have with the KF offense is that you can play tight man coverage on the WRs and as long as you blitz in the area of the cut back lanes, you can beat it and beat it fairly easily, with pressure. That's a formation issue, more than anything else. That's why the QB bootleg gets stuffed so badly on long down and distance plays. That play only works when it's on first down or short down and distance options. I think we'll see a lot more non traditional fronts to the strong side of our formation. Like what MSU, PSU and WIS did.
How f'ing crazy is that that one of the years we had an "average" offense we went undefeated during the regular season. Think about this for a sec. 1) what would this team be if we could put up a "average" offense 3/4 seasons. 2) what would the fan base do if we were a top 30 offense but a bottom 10 defense? As Iowans we price ourselves in our toughness, resilancy, and work ethic(traits I would associate with a "defender") which I think is why we pride ourselves in defense. Think about how this whole situation would.look if the D and O switched.
Brian Ferentz has got his next promotion already in the bag. Unless something happens and Gary Barta is no longer at the helm. I'll give anyone here 2-1 odds on that action. BF is the next Head Coach of the Iowa Hawkeyes, barring scandal, new AD or death!
Hmmm scout..... You and tend to have similar mindsets but 2-1 money is good. Your banking on him improving the o enough to keep his job past 2018, no more blow ups, a bor where no one raises thier hand and says "not a Ferentz." The only thing is I think is 3 years before we know but I'm tempted to put a couple bucks against you there's. I agree it's mostly.likely him but 2-1 money is 2-1.
The defense is much less complex than the offense, honestly. It's assignment football 101. Fundamentals and don't give up big plays. I'd like to see Phil Parker get a lot batter at his half time adjustments, like Norm Parker was. I'd like to see more disguised blitzes as well. I also got the feeling that past Iowa defenders would run through a brick wall for Norm Parker. I have never heard anyone make similar comments about Phil Parker. And like it or not, motivation matters in this game.
I had a coach like that once. I'd rather let down the Pope than let down Johnny (my old coach). He actually made me look forward to grueling practices. And he never raised his voice in anger or cursed. I wish I could be more like him, when I coach kids.
The Iowa offense has been poor for 18 out of 19 seasons and KF is still here. Why would 3 more seasons of mediocrity matter? Seriously. As long as Barta is the AD, KF is the HC and Brian Ferentz is the next HC. The next 10+ win season and KF retires, handing Brian Ferentz the keys and nobody will bat an eyelash.
Hmmm. That would be a decent excuse to make an extra game to Kinnick. How bout this. Put me down for 50 bucks. 4 year max on the bet. If we get to kickoff 2022 and no staff changes have been made the bet is void. If BF is the coach I pay you 50 and we drink beers and go to a game. If we have a new coach you owe me 100 and we drink beers and go to a game?
(Either way I win because I "paid" 50 bucks but theoretically we would have a decent offense) unless Barta truly is dense.
So every OT in the country is only good if he's on an NFL draft board? There are a lot of good OT's that won't make all-conference, let alone the NFL draft. Talk about mental gymnastics, lol. You didn't stick the landing and you get a 6 from the Russian judge.
Every 3 year starter for KF has been. Let's compare the actual apple to the actual apple, here. Name me the last 3 year starting OT, under KF, that didn't get drafted. Or the last 2 year starter OT that didn't get drafted. I can't think of any off the top of my head. Lots of 1 year starters haven't. But 2 or 3 year starters?
The 2015 o line was good at unblocking because the tight ends were decent blockers and the 3 guys in the middle of the line were animals.
When and if inside run plays are being successful, then that usually results from the DE crashing in. That then opens up the bootleg. The bootleg has multiple facets in how it can help the O - it forces the opposing D to be gap-sound and keep the DE disciplined on the outside. If the opposing D is playing disciplined ball - AND the running game is clicking - then the bootleg play will likely be ineffective. However, it still reminds the D why they cannot cheat. If they don't cheat with the outside guys crashing in - that typically forces them to bring a safety up. This is part of the reason why so many Iowa fans talk about opposing Ds "stacking the box" against us.
However, even given the stacked box, the offense can adjust accordingly. We've already seen this season that the O has toyed around with using some run-pass option ideas. The problem with run-pass options is that they typically key on a single defender ... thus, it's not hard for a defense to adjust accordingly. This was part of the effectiveness of Greg Davis's "check-with-me" quick-passing read ... if the DBs were too far off the line of scrimmage ... the QB would just pass to the outside right away for an easy 5+ yard gain.
If the opposing D is bringing up the safety, playing disciplined ball with its DEs, AND playing tight coverage right off the line-of-scrimmage ... you have to start mixing in some of the quick fade game with the back-shoulder game .... TE screens can be complementary counter-measure too. Of course, a lot of this runs counter to what Iowa fans "want" to see ... which is testing the D vertically. That's a possibility if the play can develop (i.e. if the pass-pro is there) ... but it's also a low percentage play too. Usually, if the D has a lot of hats in the box ... they'll mix pressures ... trying to manufacture pressure on the QB (so that the long ball cannot develop).
I could see Phil Parker being given the keys to the car just as likely as Brian.
Good post. But I wasnt very detailed in my wording. I meant in cases where it might be an audible or in cases against a blitz.
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