You're right, I did. Sorry Millhawk. I'm watching the IC west vs. Dowling game while I'm reading.
The keys to next years offensive growth...
- Thread starter Muskie5
- Start date
Are you talking about recruiting site camps or all camps (Nike, etc.)? I get it that it's subjective, but Ferentz had lowly recruiting classes in the early 2000s and yet there were studs everywhere on those 2001-2005 teams. I have a feeling a guy like Dallas Clark would not be a walk-on in this day and age. Robert Gallery, though? Maybe, maybe not. Kirk was good at seeing frames of kids and how they could fill out. I think he learned that through his NFL days. But I think other coaches and even recruiting analysts see that now as well. Or at least better than they did way back when.
Agreed. But you can certainly go back and look at the recruiting classes and see how the "misses" effect the W/L record a few years after. As much as people like to point to "development" of players. There are classes full of 2* talent that never panned out and the next class full of 2* talent does. I keep all of the old Scout.com recruiting magazines and the old media guides. Every once in awhile I like to break them out and see what recruits worked out and which "can't miss" prospects didn't.
Well, strength and condition has improved 10 fold at the High Schools and Colleges (especially HS's) in the last 15-20 years, so I think that has impacted things, plus there is way more film available of the kids in sites like Hudl etc...so, I think there are less kids 'getting missed' and fewer and fewer 'diamonds'.
I think part of the problem in our 'down' recruiting years was KF, as much as I respect him, was being stubborn about offering kids early and accepting commitments early and wanted to wait to see how they progressed their sr. years. Well, the kids weren't waiting so we started missing out on more and more kids. I think it is obvious we aren't waiting as long anymore (over the last 4-5 yrs) and we're starting to get more of our first choices. That meant they had to rethink 'how' the evaluated kids a little bit as well.
Most of the NFL talent that we had from those early years, came from FL, TX, NJ, PA and CA. Very few scholarship players came from Iowa. Our coaching staff traveled to find talent. We don't do that like we used to. And most of those players were of the 2* variety that had no P5 offers from their areas. We tried to make a push into TX with Greg Davis and the assistants he brought with him. Now they are gone, it looks like we are spending most of our time in the Midwest. I don't consider that to be a good thing.
That makes a lot of sense. So for a few years there he was recruiting according to the "old methods" and eventually saw the light. That's a good explanation. Helps me understand what went wrong for a few years there.
I do remember there being a fall-off in recruiting when Bielema left. I think he was our big recruiter in Florida back then.
Well, and I believe him when he says he got distracted from do more evals because he was spending too much time fund raising for the new facilities. I like where are recruiting is heading right now. It's getting some momentum, I think.
I'm going to copy/paste Blair's post from the "49 recruits visiting this weekend" thread. Pay attention to the states of the prospects. Every one is from a Midwest state. None from Texas, or Florida or California. I have a problem with that and it goes to a lazy attitude towards recruiting. I don't want to use the word "lazy" but I don't know what else to call it. Here's the list.
Class of 2018
Dallas Craddieth - 6-foot-1, 180-pound DB from Florissant, MO (Iowa offer)
Colton Dinsdale - 6-foot-0, 212-pound LB from Council Bluffs, IA
Nick Anderson - 6-foot-3, 230-pound LB from Council Bluffs, IA
Logan Klemp - 6-foot-3, 210-pound LB from Jewell, IA
Jordan Hook - 6-foot-4, 270-pound OL from Grundy Center, IA
Cooper Lawson - 6-foot-3, 265-pound OL from Webster City, IA
Beau Branyan - 6-foot-5, 260-pound OL from Decatur, IL
Ethan Clark - 6-foot-0, 245-pound DT from Norwalk, IA
Nick Foss - 5-foot-11, 200-pound RB from Harlan, IA
Caleb Griffin - 6-foot-2, 180-pound K/P from Danville, IL
Brian Sadler - 6-foot-2, 280-pound OL from Jesup, IA
Jake Lynott - 5-foot-10, 175-pound WR from Hawarden, IA
AJ Spychala - 6-foot-0, 220-pound LB from Muskego, WI
Kordell Stillmunkes - 5-foot-9, 180-pound DB from Cuba City, WI (Iowa walk-on)
Blair Brooks - 6-foot-3, 190-pound WR from Marion, IA (Iowa walk-on)
Dillon Doyle - 6-foot-3, 215-pound LB from Iowa City, IA (Iowa commit)
Tyler Linderbaum - 6-foot-2, 270-pound DT from Solon, IA (Iowa commit)
---
Class of 2019
Jason Bargy - 6-foot-5, 240-pound DE from Momence, IL (Iowa offer)
Kobe Myers - 6-foot-1, 190-pound DB from Walled Lake, MI (Iowa offer)
Spencer Bono - 6-foot-4, 230-pound DE from Cincinnati, OH (Iowa offer)
Noah Fenske - 6-foot-5, 260-pound OL from New Hampton, IA
Coal Flansburg - 6-foot-1, 230-pound LB from Solon, IA
Darius Watson - 6-foot-2, 200-pound WR from Florissant, MO
Jacardia Wright - 6-foot-0, 200-pound RB from Decatur, IL
Adrian Adams - 6-foot-1, 170-pound WR from New Hope, MN
Julian Cavin - 5-foot-10, 175-pound WR from Plymouth, MN
Leif Engstrand - 6-foot-8, 265-pound OL from Oconomowoc, WI
Terrell Hall - 5-foot-11, 175-pound WR from Winona, MN
Jeremiah Jordan - 6-foot-2, 185-pound LB from Madison, WI
Jacob Lippe - 6-foot-2, 180-pound WR from Port Washington, WI
Caden Johnson - 6-foot-3, 245-pound DE from Wahoo, NE
Keith Jones - 5-foot-10, 160-pound WR from St. Louis, MO
Joey Lombard - 6-foot-5, 310-pound OL from Anoka, MN
Cooper Nelson - 6-foot-4, 180-pound WR from Sun Prairie, WI
Jenaro Ocama - 6-foot-1, 174-pound CB from Woodbury, MN
Raphael Orubo - 6-foot-3, 260-pound DT from Woodbury, MN
Harrison Ochs - 5-foot-11, 170-pound CB from Indianapolis, IN
Cade Plath - 6-foot-0, 200-pound LB from Chanhassen, MN
Billy Riviere - 6-foot-4, 230-pound TE from Plymouth, MN
George Walsh - 5-foot-9, 180-pound LS from Naperville, IL
Jarren Johnson - 5-foot-5, 150-pound ATH from Momence, IL
Jeffrey Holbrook - 5-foot-10, 165-pound WR from Orion, IL
Logan Lee - 6-foot-5, 225-pound TE from Orion, IL (Iowa commit)
Ezra Miller - 6-foot-6, 310-pound OL from Holstein, IA (Iowa commit)
Tyler Endres - 6-foot-6, 280-pound OL from Norwalk, IA (Iowa commit)
---
Class of 2020
Roman Purcell - 6-foot-1, 200-pound QB from Indianapolis, IN
Jarrett Wilson - 5-foot-8, 165-pound RB from Wentzville, MO
Cade Moore - 6-foot-4, 200-pound DE from Centerville, IA
Jackson Waring - 6-foot-3, 195-pound QB from Des Moines, IA
---
Class of 2018
Dallas Craddieth - 6-foot-1, 180-pound DB from Florissant, MO (Iowa offer)
Colton Dinsdale - 6-foot-0, 212-pound LB from Council Bluffs, IA
Nick Anderson - 6-foot-3, 230-pound LB from Council Bluffs, IA
Logan Klemp - 6-foot-3, 210-pound LB from Jewell, IA
Jordan Hook - 6-foot-4, 270-pound OL from Grundy Center, IA
Cooper Lawson - 6-foot-3, 265-pound OL from Webster City, IA
Beau Branyan - 6-foot-5, 260-pound OL from Decatur, IL
Ethan Clark - 6-foot-0, 245-pound DT from Norwalk, IA
Nick Foss - 5-foot-11, 200-pound RB from Harlan, IA
Caleb Griffin - 6-foot-2, 180-pound K/P from Danville, IL
Brian Sadler - 6-foot-2, 280-pound OL from Jesup, IA
Jake Lynott - 5-foot-10, 175-pound WR from Hawarden, IA
AJ Spychala - 6-foot-0, 220-pound LB from Muskego, WI
Kordell Stillmunkes - 5-foot-9, 180-pound DB from Cuba City, WI (Iowa walk-on)
Blair Brooks - 6-foot-3, 190-pound WR from Marion, IA (Iowa walk-on)
Dillon Doyle - 6-foot-3, 215-pound LB from Iowa City, IA (Iowa commit)
Tyler Linderbaum - 6-foot-2, 270-pound DT from Solon, IA (Iowa commit)
---
Class of 2019
Jason Bargy - 6-foot-5, 240-pound DE from Momence, IL (Iowa offer)
Kobe Myers - 6-foot-1, 190-pound DB from Walled Lake, MI (Iowa offer)
Spencer Bono - 6-foot-4, 230-pound DE from Cincinnati, OH (Iowa offer)
Noah Fenske - 6-foot-5, 260-pound OL from New Hampton, IA
Coal Flansburg - 6-foot-1, 230-pound LB from Solon, IA
Darius Watson - 6-foot-2, 200-pound WR from Florissant, MO
Jacardia Wright - 6-foot-0, 200-pound RB from Decatur, IL
Adrian Adams - 6-foot-1, 170-pound WR from New Hope, MN
Julian Cavin - 5-foot-10, 175-pound WR from Plymouth, MN
Leif Engstrand - 6-foot-8, 265-pound OL from Oconomowoc, WI
Terrell Hall - 5-foot-11, 175-pound WR from Winona, MN
Jeremiah Jordan - 6-foot-2, 185-pound LB from Madison, WI
Jacob Lippe - 6-foot-2, 180-pound WR from Port Washington, WI
Caden Johnson - 6-foot-3, 245-pound DE from Wahoo, NE
Keith Jones - 5-foot-10, 160-pound WR from St. Louis, MO
Joey Lombard - 6-foot-5, 310-pound OL from Anoka, MN
Cooper Nelson - 6-foot-4, 180-pound WR from Sun Prairie, WI
Jenaro Ocama - 6-foot-1, 174-pound CB from Woodbury, MN
Raphael Orubo - 6-foot-3, 260-pound DT from Woodbury, MN
Harrison Ochs - 5-foot-11, 170-pound CB from Indianapolis, IN
Cade Plath - 6-foot-0, 200-pound LB from Chanhassen, MN
Billy Riviere - 6-foot-4, 230-pound TE from Plymouth, MN
George Walsh - 5-foot-9, 180-pound LS from Naperville, IL
Jarren Johnson - 5-foot-5, 150-pound ATH from Momence, IL
Jeffrey Holbrook - 5-foot-10, 165-pound WR from Orion, IL
Logan Lee - 6-foot-5, 225-pound TE from Orion, IL (Iowa commit)
Ezra Miller - 6-foot-6, 310-pound OL from Holstein, IA (Iowa commit)
Tyler Endres - 6-foot-6, 280-pound OL from Norwalk, IA (Iowa commit)
---
Class of 2020
Roman Purcell - 6-foot-1, 200-pound QB from Indianapolis, IN
Jarrett Wilson - 5-foot-8, 165-pound RB from Wentzville, MO
Cade Moore - 6-foot-4, 200-pound DE from Centerville, IA
Jackson Waring - 6-foot-3, 195-pound QB from Des Moines, IA
---
What 'early' years are you talking about, because I don't know if I agree with that. Davis and his assistants were telling kids things that were against KF's policies. We went through a spell where we were getting more misses than hits out of FL and TX and some kids of questionable character from what I understand. We'll still get some kids from there, but they are going to be very selective.
See, why do you and others make comments like that...'a lazy attitude'...? You have no idea what their 'attitude' is in those states or what their overall recruiting 'plan' is... and do you know how hard it is to get kids from those states to take 'unofficial' visits to Iowa??? It's hard enough to get most to take 'official' visits here. Good golly.....
I already admitted that I didn't like to use the word but I didn't know what else to use. What would you call it? Is this weekend's recruits "unofficial" visits?
Colin Cole '99 FL
Mo Brown '99 FL
Howard Hodges '99 TX
Johnathon Babineaux '00 TX
Jermelle Lewis '00 CT
Kevin Worthy '00 AL
Demon Sanders '00 PA
Benny Sapp '00 FL
Derrick Pickens '00 CA
Fred Russell '00 CT
Ed Hinkle '01 PA
Lee Gray "01 TX
Abdul Hodge '01 FL
Antwan Allen '01 FL
Brad Banks '01 MS
Jovon Johnson '02 PA
Clinton Solomon '02 TX
Marcus Pachel '02 FL
Ed Miles '02 FL
Miguel Merrick '02 NJ
Nathan Chandler '02 CA
Albert Young '03 NJ
Drew Tate '03 TX
Champ Davis '03 TX
Kenny Iwebema '03 TX
Scott Chandler '03 TX
That's a crap ton of starters from those '02-04 teams that made that run.
That is a ton of starters! But you said most of their 'NFL' talent came from those states and half of these people never made it to the NFL. Most of their NFL players came from the MIdwest (Ill. MI, MN, MO, WI etc.) and Iowa..
Aiello IL
Betts, MO
Clark, IA
Hill, IA
Jensen, WI
Kampman, IA
Kaeding, IA
McMahon, IA
Nelson, IA
Porter, IL
Pagel, IA
Rothwell, WI
Sobeiski, MN
Steen, IA
Steinbach, IL
Roth, IL
Kasper, IL
Bowen, IL
Gallery, IA
Wheatley, R,I. IL
etc... I could go on......
Get the point? So yes, they were getting a lot of talent and starters out of those markets in the early days, but you're statement that they were getting 'most' of their NFL talent from there is not correct, thus my disagreement.
First off, if you really closely look at the recruits that we had from the states you listed ... we suffered pretty darn high attrition rates with guys from some of those states too. Even a guy like Colin Cole ... a guy who bleeds the black and gold ... he had tough moments when he thought that he'd leave Iowa and go back home to Florida. And, he was one of the really successful guys for us! How do you think it was for guys who may have been more "developmental?" They may have had the raw essentials that Doyle could have morphed into beasts ... but without the "want-to" factor ... that goes along with being happy at Iowa ... some guys aren't going to work out.
Thus, while we certainly mined some good talent from those states ... it could also be argued that all the attrition hurt us too. It certainly contributed to some of our depth issues that we saw from '03 to '07.
Also, look back at a lot of Iowa's NFLers from the early Ferentz years ... a really nice portion of them were midwesterners too! Look at Kampman, Woods, Considine, Greenway, Roth, Steinbach, Nelson (who would have lasted as an NFLer had it not been for injury), Gallery, Pagel, Bowman, .... among others.
However, if you look at the success that we had in our '09 season ... that was built largely off of midwestern recruiting. Clayborn, Bulaga, Reiff, Ballard, Klug, Edds, Angerer, Moeaki, Reisner, McNutt, Vandervelde, Calloway, ..... lots of guys!
My vibe is that part of what has influenced Ferentz to rely more heavily upon the midwest is that 1) Ferentz believes that multi-sport midwestern athletes are undervalued, 2) midwestern recruits are less likely to be put-off by the weather (and get homesick), and 3) given many of these factors combined ... it leads to a more sustainable recipe.
It's worth the "attrition" for that list of players that I provided. That's not even debatable. Don't try to salvage your argument here. You asked. The list I provided of NFL talent is OFF THE CHARTS. Did you even look at the names on that list?
My guess is these are mostly unofficial visits. A lot of prospects from TX, OH, FL, NJ, PA, etc. Probably cant afford to fly into IC to watch Iowa play Purdue. Now if you are within a 4-5 hour drive its probably feasible.
Just my guess though without looking to see who is official and who is unofficial.
Your just being dishonest now.
Aiello - Never played in the NFL.
Kasper - Recruiting class of 1997 - Not a KF recruit
Bowen - Recruiting class of 1996 - Not a KF recruit
Sobieski - Reruiting class of 1998. Not a KF recruit
Wheatley - Recruiting class of 1996. Not a KF recruit
Hill - Class of 1998, Not a KF recruit
Betts - Class of 1998. Not a KF recruit
Kampman - Class of 1998. Not a KF recruit
8 of the 20 names you provided are bogus, in this discussion. So...yeah, I get your point. You gotta lie to prop up your bullshit argument.
My point about where KF recruited most of his early NFL talent, came from out of state, still stands.
Sadly agree just 99%. Well Purdue here.So Players win game.Hawk players very TOUGH today.Quite PROUD of Hawk players.So pray for surf huh? Drinking can be fun no?
Aiello most certainly did play in the NFL. And you didn't say anything about KF recruits, you said NFL talent from his early years. If you're going to present an argument, define clearly what your argument is, because like I said, half of your list didn't play in the NFL. No one lied, and I said your list was impressive, but I didn't even present all of the midwest players that made it to the NFL from his 'early' yrs (I asked you to define that, if you remember, but you never did) so spare us the vitriol. But the fact remains that YOU said 'early years', not his recruits. The fact remains that YOU said 'most' and that is not accurate under the criteria YOU laid out. The fact remains that I only gave you a partial list. You are entitled to your own opinion but not to your own facts. Try to be more specific about your points and you won't have to get your little feelers hurt and resort to calling people liars etc. What was your point again?
Well, you didn't try hard enough, but you like to take 'shots' at people when you can. I wouldn't call it anything because I/we have no idea what their recruiting plan is or how they choose to spend their recruiting budget. You do realize they have a budget, don't you? And it is significantly less than the 'blue bloods'. There is so much our 'fans' don't understand about recruiting kids to Iowa but they sure like to share their opinions about it. The ignorant, simplistic comments get old.
You do realize that most people from the south and Florida can't find Iowa on a map and think we grow potatoes, don't you? I've lived in Georgia and Florida, I've experienced it first hand. They've never seen an Iowa football game, never read about Iowa in the news, etc... but you think they are going to line up to drive here on their own dollar for an unofficial visit? Right. And don't get me started on CA, but I've read that 99% of the athletes on the west coast stay west of the great divide to go to school. They want nothing to do with the midwest or deep south. They think everyone from those regions are nothing but hillbillies, hicks and crackers. They may be right.
Yes, they are unofficial visits, since none of the recruits have declared this one of their official visits that I have seen. Do you know the difference? You seemed confused.
No problem. You had a good point about Waechter. That whole scenario has hurt our oline play. He probably would have started this year, really unfortunate for him and Iowa.
What do you think of Waggoner and Dillon Doyle?
I don't know that I was 'wowed' by either of them. Waggoner is a good specimen and can push around the typical HS OT, but I didn't think he was that explosive or was a great 'finisher' in this game. He could be a really good one if he's willing to work at it. He probably wouldn't see the field at Iowa till his jr. year barring injuries. Doyle looks like a good athlete and could develop into a solid LB. I don't like IC West's brand of defense (which is most HS's anymore) because they don't teach LB's to read much, they just 'send them' most of the time. Being coaches kid, I would hope he would be a workout warrior and coachable. He'll certainly be exposed to what Iowa does a lot more than they other recruits, so there is no excuse for him not knowing the system better than anyone. Lot of good athletes on those two teams. That Buchanon kid is undersized, but what an athlete and one of his catches was pretty amazing at any level.
I watched the Waukon/Williamsburg game as well and it's fun watching the kids in that division that jump off the page at you. That Mitchell Snitker kid is one hell of a football player. Reminded me alot of Snyder when he was at West Lyon, but he's a little smaller. If he was bigger, I'd recruit him at the Mike because he's in that same vain as a Morris or a Jewell. And I see why Iowa has been talking to that Ben Subbert from Williamsburg. He was a man amongst boys.
Subbert a tackle? I don't think he runs well enough for a te. West Sioux of Hawarden has a couple of kids I like. Jake Lynott should be recruited as a pwo at wr. The kid is a player and can move. Dekkers their qbis only a soph, impressive young qb. Buchanan has to be on Iowa's radar for'19 class. Also Murray from Dowling.
I couldn't understand why Waggoner couldn't just rip through that West tackle. But I guess he's taught to contain and set the edge, collapse the pocket while doing so.
You're first sentence was "what early years are you talking about". My ONLY response was to list the early recruits of KF's tenure. I even went to the trouble of including their respective recruiting classes. Not my fault you can't keep up when someone answers your direct questions.
I checked the NFL statistical archives and I could find no Sam Aiello on their site. Tell me what team(s) he played for. Or link the source of your claim.
You can't pretend to "have any idea what their recruiting plan is" but you CAN pretend to know "that most people from the south and Florida can't find Iowa on a map and think we grow potatoes" and therefore, they won't come to Iowa to play football??? You cannot help but tell more lies. You do realize that we currently have a player on our roster from both Georgia and Florida, right?
Trey Creamer - DB Cartersville, Georgia. Since you're "uninformed" and not just lying, I'll give you a quick geography lesson. Cartersville is 43 miles NW of Atlanta, on highway 75/
Adrian Falconer - WR Leesburg, Florida. Leesburg is 45 miles NW of Orlando, Florida.
Kyshaun Brian - RB Fort Lauderdale, Florida. Fort Lauderdale is 30 miles N of Miami, Florida.
I guess these 3 are the only kids that own a map and don't fear potatoes?
You add something to my post that I didn't say and tell me saying it makes me a liar, LMAO. That's one of the funniest things I've ever seen. Why is reading comprehension so hard for a lot of people, and I could try to reiterate the very good point I made, but I think it would be wasted on you as you are one of many who are so stuck in their 'side' of things, they don't 'listen' and constantly practice confirmation bias. That is exactly what you did here. Go back and read my post without any bias and see if you can figure out what I said.
Muskie5 said: ↑
Well, you didn't try hard enough, but you like to take 'shots' at people when you can. I wouldn't call it anything because I/we have no idea what their recruiting plan is or how they choose to spend their recruiting budget. You do realize they have a budget, don't you? And it is significantly less than the 'blue bloods'. There is so much our 'fans' don't understand about recruiting kids to Iowa but they sure like to share their opinions about it. The ignorant, simplistic comments get old.
You do realize that most people from the south and Florida can't find Iowa on a map and think we grow potatoes, don't you? I've lived in Georgia and Florida, I've experienced it first hand. They've never seen an Iowa football game, never read about Iowa in the news, etc... but you think they are going to line up to drive here on their own dollar for an unofficial visit? Right. And don't get me started on CA, but I've read that 99% of the athletes on the west coast stay west of the great divide to go to school. They want nothing to do with the midwest or deep south. They think everyone from those regions are nothing but hillbillies, hicks and crackers. They may be right.
Yes, they are unofficial visits, since none of the recruits have declared this one of their official visits that I have seen. Do you know the difference? You seemed confused.
One of us lies like a cheap rug. I'm not confused about that.
I feel like I'm violating anti-slavery laws, as much as I am owning your dumb ass in this thread.
Perfect. Show me where I said "and therefore, they won't come to Iowa to play football???" that you claim I did. I think that clears that all up. You might lie like a rug, but I wouldn't call you cheap.
Keep lying. I'm starting to believe you actually DO know Lou Holtz. That man lies as well as you do. I'm going to set you free now. I take little pleasure in owning someone as stupid and dishonest as you. Fly. Fly away.
You still have no comprehension of what that post was even about which is clear to everyone.
You didn't answer the question coward. You said I made that statement, now show me where I said it. You can't and everyone knows it. So now you're attempting to divert and distract. Besides being a liar and a fool, you are a coward. Run away, or show me where I said it.
I've had enough of your lies. It's not cowardice to stop having a discussion with a proven liar. It's good sense.
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