The Problem

[Neo_Hawk]

PSU has the wrestlers in the room that want to wrestle for Cael and take a lot less scholarship money then they would get at other schools. Then you add the fact their winning national titles, Cael is now even in a better position to offer less money. Cortez is attending PSU and he's not on scholarship because of the transfer rule. That's a insane situation, at least to me, considering he could've went to another conference, wrestled right away and receive a athletic scholarship.

While I have no info on who is offered what and how much money one family has vs. another, I can speak to tuition costs as they relate to PA and Iowa. I am out of state for both states and can tell you that, as an out of stater, PSU tuition for my kids before any academic scholarships was 28k, if we were instate, it would have been half that at 16k or so. For Iowa out of state tuition is 38k, while instate was about 18k.

So I guess my point is, for an instate kid in PA, even if we offer them 1/2 scholarship, it's still cheaper for them to say in state and go to PSU at full tuition that it is to come to Iowa, since PA has tons of HS talent, could this be a disadvantage? For kids not going to HS in either state, because of the difference in tuition, PSU dollars go further.

This is just an example that I bring up because it's something I am familiar with. I have no idea how much influence this has on any one athlete or their family and I have no idea who is offered what, I am just pointing out my experience. And to invalidate my entire post, I would like to point out that 2 of my kids are going to Iowa, sooooooooooooo

 

[#10Hawk]

I'll pipe in here, Gable as much as he is God in Iowa is old school and also old. Doesn't relate to these young recruits, any of the young ex champs (Taylor, Burrough, Dake, now Dieringer) would recruits circles around Gable. I watched the finals on ESPN3, looks like Gable wasn't to impressed with how Iowa wrestlers and coaching was doing. I think at one point he acted he was thinking about coming back and righting the ship! That wouldn't be good for Iowa, the coaches you have are a few of the best. If you haven't heard once but a 100 times Tom talking about his wrestlers trying to score more in the first, moving forward and locking up and using 2 on 1 all the time just doesn't score a lot of points when your at Nationals going against top wrestlers. Love Gilman, Clark is a boring wrestler, his 2 on 1 stallfest, now here is a reason why you should keep your coaches. They are getting the most out of Clark then anybody else could.

Gable was obviously disappointed with finals' results as all of us Iowa fans did; he wasn't talking about about coaching at all.

 

[aalion]

MVPFAN: You have Nevills top 5 and outside top 75.

There are 2 Nevills. Nick is the current Hvy who was injured most of the season and was a top recruit. Younger brother is lighter and a less heralded recruit who committed to PSU a few months ago. There is also a 3rd brother who is expected to be a top Hvy recruit in a couple of years.

 

[CholleyVandine]

Last year, eight of the NCAA finalists were ranked in the 6th decile or below coming out of high school (Houdashelt, Habat, Walsh, Matt Brown, Wilps, Dean, Nate Brown, and Gadson) and only five were ranked in the first decile (NaTo, Stieber, IMar, Snyder, and Coon). Maybe you should be recruiting lower ranked wrestlers?

It isn't the coaching... Terry and Tom are the best in the country.

It isn't "peaking too soon" either.

Give TnT a top 10 p4p recruit, and they'll get results (e.g. Metcalf). Give them a top 20 recruit (e.g. Gilman) or a top 30 recruit (Clark), and you'll likely get very good results. The lightweights have had international success, and Terry was USA FS coach of the year last year.

No, the problem is RECRUITING. Specifically top 10 type guys. This is typically where the Metcalfs, Taylors, Ruths, Retherfords, Picos, Imars, Varners, etc can be found. No guarantee of course, but we're talking probabilities here.

We've fallen way behind PSU (as has everyone else) in this department. We've fallen behind tOSU too.

A little breakdown of the finals with their final HS p4p ranking by Earl's d1 site (top decile means ranked 1-10th best, 2nd decile means 11-20th best, and so on).

125 Megaludis (1st decile over Gilman (2nd decile)
133 Garrett (7th decile) over Clark (3rd decile)
141 Heil (2nd decile) over Meredith (?decile, but not 1st,2nd or 3rd)
149 Retherford (1st) over Sorensen (3rd)
157 Imar (1st) over Nolf (1st)
165 Dieringer (3rd) over Jordan (3rd)
171 Martin (1st) over Nickal (1st)
184 Dean (8th) over Dudley (3rd)
197 Cox (1st) over McIntosh (1st)
Hwt Snyder (1st) over Gwiaz (2nd)

One can see that while there are some outliers (Garrett and Dean), out of 10 champions, 6 came from the top decile. Out of 20 finalists, only 3 came from outside the top 3 deciles. Garrett has uncanny speed and athleticism. Dean is likewise an athlete and was planning on playing FB. Those kinds of athletes can really have a high ceiling, if they have the desire to wrestle and good coaching.

As far as Iowa goes, here are their decile rankings out of HS:
Gilman - 2nd
Clark - 3rd
Grothus - 11th
Sorensen - 3rd
Cooper - 3rd
Rhoads - 14th
Meyer - 5th
Brooks - 2nd
Burak - (? can't find, but not in top 3)
Stoll - injured, 2nd

Here is PSU:
Megaludis - 1st
Conaway - 11th
Gulibon - 1st
Retherford - 1st
Nolf - 1st
Rasheed/Hammond/Morelli - 4th or 5th
Nickal - 1st
McCutch - 4th
McIntosh - 1st
Nevills - 1st.

Quite a contrast... PSU has 7 top decile recruits to Iowa's zero. Not surprisingly, both Iowa and PSU got most of their ncaa points out of their highest decile wrestlers, and little from the lower ranked deciles. Btw, gotta give some credit to Cael on Conaway's improvement.

Iowa went 5 years without a single top 10 recruit, with Evans being the last (2010). The drought ended in 2015 with Kemerer, who, surprise surprise, looks very promising. We now have 2 additional guys in the pipeline with Marinelli and Mejia. Meanwhile PSU has grabbed Suriano, and biggest #1 of all... Hall. Cael was no world beater as ISU's coach, but when he got to PSU, the top recruits put them in overdrive.

Brands has done wonders with the team, with no top ten and only a few top 20 guys. That is a measure of how good of a coach he is. But recruiting is part of coaching, so ultimately Brands has to produce here. I think we've turned a corner with recruiting, but still more needs to be done. Shelling out more full rides, sending out our ambassador of charm or whatever it takes..... Iowa needs the thoroughbreds to stay in the race.

 

[Jackhawk87]

Let me help you out.
10 + 1/2(20) = 20
20 is much more than 9.9
You are welcome.

Let's see if I can clarify for you.

vs. means compared to - not in addition to.

PSU 10 full schollys = 10 schollys (rounding from 9.9)
Iowa 1/2(20) = 10 schollys

Hope that is clear enough.
You are welcome.

 

[FineMaterial]

Let's see if I can clarify for you. vs. means compared to - not in addition to.

PSU 10 full schollys = 10 schollys (rounding from 9.9)
Iowa 1/2(20) = 10 schollys

Hope that is clear enough.

Yes, I read it as "and".
My understanding of typical practice for schollys is
.2 for a good wrestler
.5 for a star
.8 or .9 for a super star (Hall, Lee)

 

[MVPFAN]

"The Iowa style/mindset is not old school, or antiquated. Hard work, being in better condition to wear down opponents through relentless attacking never goes out of style except with people who aren't wired that way, weren't trained that way, or don't want to work as hard as it takes to wrestle that way. More often than not, Gable would pass over a better wrestler to instead recruit one with that mindset. The good fit scenario. If you start with those guys you can develop them into that Iowa Style maniac, even if they aren't top tier blue chippers. They have the Iowa Style/mindset, so you caninstill needed technique and make them great (Brands, Kinseth,). Yes, Iowa still got its share of top recruits like Randy Lewis, Lincoln McIlravy, Joe Williams etc. There is a culture in the room that you nurture. Occasionally that culture gets eroded or flat out disappears. That was the concern with Jim Z. I think Gilman is an Iowa style/Iowa attitude guy. Sorensen and his 1-2 point wins in low scoring matches (Mike Evans as well) not so much, but he is still a very good wrestler. However, as good as he is, which of those two guys cultivates the mindset and personality/culture you want? However, I do know kids, and reaching them may be different today. Just as Vince Lombardi's or Woody Hayes' style may not work today, vs the new wave of successful coaches, until Bill Belichick starts losing games, I will refrain from a total declaration that with today's athletes today you need to be more nurturing, laid back, relaxed, fun etc. "

IMO the whole passing over talented guys to get a less talented guy with the "right" mindset has not been nor will work anymore if it ever did. They have been doing this, bringing in tons of lesser heralded guys all gung ho to be hawks and they just don't do much. If a guy does not have the physical skills or talent then no amount of mindset will make him the best. Gilman is a guy with mind set and talent. The good fit scenario is over rated, a good coach should be able to take a talented kid and cultivate him to win within his strengths. There was a guy I know who went to Iowa, had a nasty cradle that people were scared as hell of in HS, never saw him even attempt a cradle at Iowa. Also I think a big reason why we hand fight all the time and never shoot is because 1. They are being coached to almost exclusively shoot from a tie. 2. Our poor scramble ability from lack of working through scrambles makes them so afraid of getting countered in a scramble they wait for the absolute perfect shot, which they may never even see vs top guys.

 

[pumpdog20]

4) and I think (JUST MY OPINION) we need a great technique guy in the room to complement the intensity. I know that means Terry

Let me help you with something... You do not become an Olympic or World champion without being a great technical guy. Guess what, we have 2 of those already on the staff.

 

[pumpdog20]

Food for thought why not hire Gable to do some recruiting for us? He could be on call when a hot recruit like Hall, Lee are out there. He'd probably work for cheap even.

Cael is Gable to these kids, IMO. Gable is the old guy that recruits parents keep talking about. I don't think Gable is the finisher we hope he could be.

 

[artradley]

Let's see if I can clarify for you.

vs. means compared to - not in addition to.

PSU 10 full schollys = 10 schollys (rounding from 9.9)
Iowa 1/2(20) = 10 schollys

Hope that is clear enough.
You are welcome.

Thanks. I can see that my first post could have been written more clearly. That is my point; use a strategy of just a few kids with very large scholarships instead of giving a bunch of kids fractional scholarships -- aim for the big studs and don't worry about holes in the roster. Because PSU only needed five guys to show up at Nationals to blow everybody else away. The other five could have gone to Disneyland for the weekend.

 

[artradley]

Cael is Gable to these kids, IMO. Gable is the old guy that recruits parents keep talking about. I don't think Gable is the finisher we hope he could be.

I agree. I think to us oldsters, especially oldsters from Iowa, Gable's name doesn't carry the same kind of weight it does to a 16 year old kid from one of the coasts.