Because I believe in a higher authority besides myself.
It's much easier being atheist/agnostic and doing whatever you want.
The Right to Die In a Dignified Manner
- Thread starter Hawki97
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Because I believe in a higher authority besides myself.
It's much easier being atheist/agnostic and doing whatever you want.
Because I believe in a higher authority besides myself.
It's much easier being atheist/agnostic and doing whatever you want.
That's the level of complexity you're operating at here? People are completely morally adrift -- no systems of moral values -- without believing in a theistic God? That's what you've come to understand of the human conditions after how many decades on earth... that's how things work?
Atheists/agnostics become your own gods. You make it all up as you go along. Your god is you and that's an easier way to live.
Read Frederick Nietszche and Jean Paul Sartre.
The troubled 29-year-old helped to die by Dutch doctors
In January Aurelia Brouwers drank poison supplied by a doctor and lay down to die. She was 29.
www.bbc.com
And I don't think that is the only one but it was the easiest to find.
The troubled 29-year-old helped to die by Dutch doctors
In January Aurelia Brouwers drank poison supplied by a doctor and lay down to die. She was 29.
And I don't think that is the only one but it was the easiest to find.
I’ve got something to say about baby with the bath water…but I know better than to argue with a true believer.
This woman from The Netherlands?
The troubled 29-year-old helped to die by Dutch doctors - BBC News
In January Aurelia Brouwers drank poison supplied by a doctor and lay down to die. She was 29.www.bbc.com
I’m not fond of it either, but I hold a similar view to one of the doctors from said article:
"I've treated patients that I knew were going to commit suicide," she says. "I knew. They told me, I felt it, and I thought, 'I can't help you.' So to have euthanasia as an alternative makes me very grateful we have a law. The ones I know will commit suicide are terminal in my opinion. And I don't want to abandon my patients who are not able to go on with their lives. That makes me willing to perform euthanasia."
Sorry but I can't share your view that if we think they will do it anyway we should just help them.
It sends the message to others that suicide an acceptable way out of their difficulties.
The problem is it starts with terminally I'll people then it just starts expanding to people who are mentally ill or disabled. Eventually it becomes an expectation that you off yourself rather than be a "burden". When we start pressuring people to off themselves because it might cost us time and money to care for them we have lost all of our humanity.
It took very little time at all to go from just terminally I'll people to depressed people.
No I haven't. A big issue is getting back into the habit. Especially for my wife who has never liked getting up early in the morning.
That’s way oversimplifying it. The point is that at a certain point, I believe someone can be terminal without a physical illness. and I believe you arrive at that conclusion over a period of time, while trying various treatments. And also having more than just one doctors opinion. No one asks to be born, and yet we should force them to live in agony?
Die quicker? Maybe. Depends on the process how quick that would be. Almost assuredly would be miserable. Dementia, heart failure, cirrhosis, certain cancers, neurologic conditions could take years.
Why you want those people to suffer because of some belief from a sky fairy is beyond me.
I don't want people to suffer.
My point is if people stopped life extending treatment, they wouldn't linger for additional years. Plus, they could take pain meds.
If you read the article by Dr. Ezekiel Emanuel (an atheist, BTW) he goes into detail:
Why I Hope to Die at 75
An argument that society and families—and you—will be better off if nature takes its course swiftly and promptly
I’d much rather my tax dollars go toward euthanasia than months to years of care for someone with a debilitating illness. I don’t support withholding care if the person wants to fight till the end. But I do support giving them the choice.
Agreed. As long as the people allowed to follow through on it are actually verifiably terminal. By a panel of healthcare professionals. I cannot countenance irs use in those that simply don't see a point in carrying on with their life. Such as in depressed states etc.
Anyone that has seen death occur as often as people in certain medical fields have, I'm surprised you don't believe in an after life.
They absolutely would linger depending on the process. Guess what? I've seen that too. People just stop taking their heart meds, or liver meds, etc. It's not a great way to go.I don't want people to suffer.
My point is if people stopped life extending treatment, they wouldn't linger for additional years. Plus, they could take pain meds.
If you read the article by Dr. Ezekiel Emanuel (an atheist, BTW) he goes into detail:
Why I Hope to Die at 75
An argument that society and families—and you—will be better off if nature takes its course swiftly and promptlywww.theatlantic.com
And please stop citing the same guy. If all you have is the opinion of a single person, it's not a strong supporting argument.
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Because I believe in a higher authority besides myself.
It's much easier being atheist/agnostic and doing whatever you want.
Some may think that your religion…is the cross you bear.
Yeah, I’m already extremely realistic - some would say callous - about death. If I worked in Healthcare it would be even moreso.
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No problem.
There are tons of other doctors that oppose euthanasia/assisted suicide.
"According to results of a CMA member survey presented at the meeting, many doctors remain opposed to assisting in a patient’s suicide. Only 29% of those surveyed said they would consider providing medical aid in dying if requested by a patient, 63% would refuse outright and 8% were undecided."
Many doctors won’t provide assisted dying
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
I'm sure you have seen people, as they move through the process of death, that they seem to be acknowledging something that is beyond our current reality.
Lol. That's it? I've seen people have hallucinations for all kinds of reasons. So in your view, a god makes them suffer through a painful terminal illness, but as a pittance they give them a fun little dream before ultimately dying? .
Personally, I don't find that good evidence of a sky fairy.
I'd be really interested in actually seeing the survey and the breakdown in specialty, demographics, etc. Unfortunately the actual study isn't linked anywhere I can find.No problem.
There are tons of other doctors that oppose euthanasia/assisted suicide.
"According to results of a CMA member survey presented at the meeting, many doctors remain opposed to assisting in a patient’s suicide. Only 29% of those surveyed said they would consider providing medical aid in dying if requested by a patient, 63% would refuse outright and 8% were undecided."
Many doctors won’t provide assisted dying
Either way, it's ok if some physicians oppose it. Some refuse to perform abortions, vasectomies, etc based on their beliefs (typically religious in origin). Which is fine.
Yeah, I wouldn’t leave a mess like that.
I think I’ve told this story here before:
Carbon monoxide is an amazingly peaceful way to go. You just feel real, real sleepy - then out.
I remember in high school when I had my rusty, beater Datsun 510. Driving home from school was just over two miles, so the trip was quick. The muffler on the car had rusted (those earlier Datsuns were notorious rust buckets) and during the winter I'm driving home from school with the windows up. By the time I got home I felt exhausted (literally and unwittingly!), and just chalked it up to my terrible sleep habits and I'd have a nap.
One day coming home I'd practically fallen asleep on the short drive. Walking up the stairs to my room I noticed my reflection in the mirror on the landing and my cheeks were red. A scene from Stephen King's Christine popped in my head where he described a carbon monoxide victim with ruddy cheeks and it clicked I wasn't exhausted, I was poisoned.
Took care of the muffler after that.
If you have to go by your own hand, listening to tunes in the car seems like the best way I could arrange.
I totally believe in physician assisted suicide. That being said, I'm not sure I'm well trained for it nor would feel comfortable assisting a patient. I would probably refuse based on the simple poll results you presented.No problem.
There are tons of other doctors that oppose euthanasia/assisted suicide.
"According to results of a CMA member survey presented at the meeting, many doctors remain opposed to assisting in a patient’s suicide. Only 29% of those surveyed said they would consider providing medical aid in dying if requested by a patient, 63% would refuse outright and 8% were undecided."
Many doctors won’t provide assisted dying
I think palliative care/hospice trained folks are probably best. They deal with it on a daily basis and know "when it's time". I would prefer to be the doctor caring for whatever illness is going to take them. Oncologist for pancreatic cancer, neurologist for ALS, etc. They know how these diseases have progressed to a point when there is no hope and when would be appropriate to assist someone. I would prefer to have a long-term relationship with patients before helping them. Knowing what they looked like before illness, what the illness is going to do to them, and where they are today. I also would allow families to assist. I wouldn't have an issue prescribing drugs to some of my patient's kids or spouses (usually wives). They know when their loved ones no longer would want to be alive.
I didn't say there was a 'sky fairy'. Personally, for someone in medicine, I think your ridicule with this pejorative term is below you but fair enough. This is GIAOT so its fine. I am Catholic so I believe in God but I simply think that religion is a codified way for the masses to have the afterlife explained in a way that is understandable. Which is why I believe all religions have value.
I don't believe dying patients are hallucinating as you do. I believe there is another dimension/after life that our souls are matter is taken after death. I have seen enough people over die over the years that the peace that comes over them and the things they vocalize have me convinced that there is something else beyond this plane of existence. Is there God and a Heaven? I believe so but these terms are merely ways of making sense out of that which is hard to make sense out of. I dont not believe in suffering either. Which is why I make a point of doing my best to bring peace to them as much as I can. The presence of suffering does not argue for Go'ds absence.
Are you atheist or agnostic? Just curious.
Personally I find agnosticism quite easy to understand and can easily see why many fall into this camp. I think that the certainty some have for God's absence is just as hard to explain as Gods existence.
We're all agnostic, since none of us know for certain. I'm 99.69% sure there's nothing waiting on the other side. Lights out, ballgame. Some find that scary, I find it comforting. It'll be just like it was before you're born.
People can have their religion. Go for it if it gives you comfort. But as has been shown in the thread, people use their religious beliefs to influence actual policies and laws. I have a major problem with that.
Being “the end” is the most comforting thing one could possibly imagine IMHO. Not that being here now isn’t great. But I’ll never understand people’s desire to fall into the trap and use religion as a way to extend “life.” That desire is zapping the seconds, minutes, days, and years you have. So silly.
Heaven would be sweet, though.
Infinite bliss. I'll take it.
If you have free long distance in Infinite Bliss give me a call in hell and you can drop an “I told you so.” Or just call collect and announce yourself as “hooker killer” and I’ll accept the call.
Gus,
You and I know that Jesus existed.
If you're interested in NDE's, check out the Magis Center by Father Robert Spitzer.
Near Death Experiences | Magis Center
Discover all there is to know about the fascinating topic of near death experiences!
www.magiscenter.com
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Just ask Jesus to save you.
I'm but a mere man.
Love you buddy. Even more than Jesus does.
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