There is no energy independence with oil

[JRHawk2003]

There never will be. The Saudi's control the market with OPEC. Their production cost is so much lower than the shale producers from N Dakota that they can simply manipulate the market to put them out of business.

The only independence will be achieved when we are off oil. When we dont care about wars there.

 

[abby97]

Then get to work inventing a battery that will hold a charge for about 800 miles, doesn't cost thousands of dollars to replace when it dies, and doesn't demand that we destroy the planet to mine the rare earth minerals required to produce it. Oh, and make sure all the deposits of those rare earth minerals isn't controlled by the Chinese Communist party.

As soon as you invent such a machine, let me know and I'm on board. However, until that time, I'll be driving my ICE and gladly paying the Saudi's and North Dakotans to fuel it.

 

[dandh]

Talked to a guy from Williston North Dakota yesterday in the antique store where I sell. He said he's worked in the oil fields his entire adult life and has made a great living. He claims they are still in business.

 

[mnole03]

We can generate electricity without oil. We just need to burn more books.

 

[Hawkfan_08]

Then get to work inventing a battery that will hold a charge for about 800 miles, doesn't cost thousands of dollars to replace when it dies, and doesn't demand that we destroy the planet to mine the rare earth minerals required to produce it. Oh, and make sure all the deposits of those rare earth minerals isn't controlled by the Chinese Communist party.

As soon as you invent such a machine, let me know and I'm on board. However, until that time, I'll be driving my ICE and gladly paying the Saudi's and North Dakotans to fuel it.

You will gladly pay the Saudis? I know I'm paying the Saudis but I'm not happy about it.

 

[abby97]

You will gladly pay the Saudis? I know I'm paying the Saudis but I'm not happy about it.

I would gladly pay the Saudis over the Chinese.

 

[swagsurfer02]

There never will be. The Saudi's control the market with OPEC. Their production cost is so much lower than the shale producers from N Dakota that they can simply manipulate the market to put them out of business.

The only independence will be achieved when we are off oil. When we dont care about wars there.

If I were you, I would try that experiment for a month. Don’t use oil or oil based products and come back and report to us. Remember, that smart phone you are currently using is a no no. See you in 30 days, you miserable old coot!

 

[JRHawk2003]

Too mean

 

[JRHawk2003]

I walk to work a lot of days and dont drive at all.

How does spending more money on gas make you better?

 

[theiacowtipper]

Then get to work inventing a battery that will hold a charge for about 800 miles, doesn't cost thousands of dollars to replace when it dies, and doesn't demand that we destroy the planet to mine the rare earth minerals required to produce it. Oh, and make sure all the deposits of those rare earth minerals isn't controlled by the Chinese Communist party.

As soon as you invent such a machine, let me know and I'm on board. However, until that time, I'll be driving my ICE and gladly paying the Saudi's and North Dakotans to fuel it.

EV technology isn’t for every application right now but you’re putting forth a pretty strong argument against ICE with this post.

Name an ICE based vehicle that will get 800 miles without filling up. That doesn’t harm the planet burning its fuel. That doesn’t contain rare metals. That doesn’t cost thousands to replace the drivetrain.

You’re asking EVs to meet a standard that ICE vehicles have never been able to meet.

 

[abby97]

I'm not interested in swapping out my smart phone for the old rotary dial land line either. So until something is invented that is better, I'm good with my ICE. It's warm and roomy too.

 

[abby97]

EV technology isn’t for every application right now but you’re putting forth a pretty strong argument against ICE with this post.

Name an ICE based vehicle that will get 800 miles without filling up. That doesn’t harm the planet burning its fuel. That doesn’t contain rare metals. That doesn’t cost thousands to replace the drivetrain.

You’re asking EVs to meet a standard that ICE vehicles have never been able to meet.

You're attempt at a response is almost cute. It takes me 5 minutes to fill up my tank while on the road so the fact that it won't go 800 miles isn't an issue with an ICE. Also, I've driven many many cars will over 150k miles with only the cost of inexpensive routine maintenance and who knows how far they would have gone if I didn't simply get tired of them. Again, not the case with a battery.

You're trying to hard to defend technology that is just not ready for prime time yet for the mass market. Hopefully it will get there someday but not today.

 

[JRHawk2003]

I'm not interested in swapping out my smart phone for the old rotary dial land line either. So until something is invented that is better, I'm good with my ICE. It's warm and roomy too.

Im surprised you dont go back to a horse.

 

[Whiskeydeltadeltatango]

I walk to work a lot of days and dont drive at all.

How does spending more money on gas make you better?

I cover an entire state, what a tiny worldview. Change your pants.

 

[JRHawk2003]

If I were you, I would try that experiment for a month. Don’t use oil or oil based products and come back and report to us. Remember, that smart phone you are currently using is a no no. See you in 30 days, you miserable old coot!

I mean, that is a really stupid response.

 

[theiacowtipper]

You're attempt at a response is almost cute. It takes me 5 minutes to fill up my tank while on the road so the fact that it won't go 800 miles isn't an issue with an ICE. Also, I've driven many many cars will over 150k miles with only the cost of inexpensive routine maintenance and who knows how far they would have gone if I didn't simply get tired of them. Again, not the case with a battery.

You're trying to hard to defend technology that is just not ready for prime time yet for the mass market. Hopefully it will get there someday but not today.

EVs are cheaper to maintain. The battery lasts just as long as a non electric drive train. If you consistently take 800 mile trips, or routinely pull a load, they won’t work for you. Otherwise it makes sense.

 

[Jan Itor]

I walk to work a lot of days and dont drive at all.

How does spending more money on gas make you better?

Liar

 

[SolarHawk]

EV technology isn’t for every application right now but you’re putting forth a pretty strong argument against ICE with this post.

Name an ICE based vehicle that will get 800 miles without filling up. That doesn’t harm the planet burning its fuel. That doesn’t contain rare metals. That doesn’t cost thousands to replace the drivetrain.

You’re asking EVs to meet a standard that ICE vehicles have never been able to meet.

Well, abby's a fvcking dipshit sooooooooo

 

[JRHawk2003]

You all heard Abby say he likes funding the Saudi's. How sad and sorry.

 

[fsu1jreed]

There never will be. The Saudi's control the market with OPEC. Their production cost is so much lower than the shale producers from N Dakota that they can simply manipulate the market to put them out of business.

The only independence will be achieved when we are off oil. When we dont care about wars there.

Fvcking facts

 

[Tenacious E]

There never will be. The Saudi's control the market with OPEC. Their production cost is so much lower than the shale producers from N Dakota that they can simply manipulate the market to put them out of business.

The only independence will be achieved when we are off oil. When we dont care about wars there.

I'm mostly joking, and I hope the electric/battery era ushers in sooner rather than later, but will the world become beholden to Big Battery and the countries with the most manufacturing capacity and/or deposits used to make them? Here are articles surveying that data.

Ranked: Top 25 nations producing battery metals for the EV supply chain

Although China will likely maintain its dominance for the foreseeable future, other countries are ramping up their mining and refining capacities.

www.mining.com

Ranked: Top 25 Nations Producing Battery Metals for the EV Supply Chain

Electric vehicle batteries harness the properties of raw materials to power vehicles. Here are the top 25 nations supplying raw materials for EV batteries.

elements.visualcapitalist.com

 

[JRHawk2003]

I'm mostly joking, and I hope the electric/battery era ushers in sooner rather than later, but will the world become beholden to Big Battery and the countries with the most manufacturing capacity and/or deposits used to make them? Here are articles surveying that data.

Ranked: Top 25 nations producing battery metals for the EV supply chain

Although China will likely maintain its dominance for the foreseeable future, other countries are ramping up their mining and refining capacities.

www.mining.com

Ranked: Top 25 Nations Producing Battery Metals for the EV Supply Chain

Electric vehicle batteries harness the properties of raw materials to power vehicles. Here are the top 25 nations supplying raw materials for EV batteries.

elements.visualcapitalist.com

This assumes battery technology is static. If we could develop batteries using more common elements, it changes everything.

 

[abby97]

EVs are cheaper to maintain. The battery lasts just as long as a non electric drive train. If you consistently take 800 mile trips, or routinely pull a load, they won’t work for you. Otherwise it makes sense.

If you believe an electric vehicles battery will last as long as an ICE vehicle's drive train, I've got a bridge in Brooklyn that I can get you a great price on.

 

[theiacowtipper]

If you believe an electric vehicles battery will last as long as an ICE vehicle's drive train, I've got a bridge in Brooklyn that I can get you a great price on.

Well, by law they must be warranted for 8 years. Most are warranted for 100,000+. They have an expected
Lifespan of 200k miles and when they do begin to age it’s just a small loss of expected mileage. There’s no question that it is similar to an ICE. Again there are downsides
To evs. Just because you are biased doesnt mean there is no place for them.

 

[JRHawk2003]

ICE is inefficient compared to electricity. Its basic physics.

The clutching of fossil fuels is now is no doubt similar to people around 100 years ago holding on to their horses and wagons, etc.

Dont even get started on what a disaster the automobile has been for urban development. We could have a whole thread on that alone.

 

[Phenomenally Frantastic]

There never will be. The Saudi's control the market with OPEC. Their production cost is so much lower than the shale producers from N Dakota that they can simply manipulate the market to put them out of business.

The only independence will be achieved when we are off oil. When we dont care about wars there.

Agreed. It costs the Saudis ~$4 / barrel to produce. They will manipulate at will until we move away from fossil fuels altogether.

A study has been done on “Undue profits from fossil fuels” in the last 50 years. The conclusion they reached was $44 Trillion.

We are all schmucks.

Every fossil fuel defender has been screwed over by energy companies their entire life. Most are just too stupid to realize it.

 

[blhawk]

Hopefully it will get there someday but not today.

I agree with this and if you really did I'm not sure why you are pitching the fit you are defending ICEs. It's very short sighted. Everyone acknoledges that the transition to electric is going to take awhile and we are pretty early on in the process. I have two ICE vehicles and the one I drive most gets about 30 mpg combined.

Those will last me quite awhile but as soon as there's a solid ev option thats reasonably affordable I'm all in. Just not messing with oil changes is a huge selling point. Giving the middle finger to the gas price gougers will be great too

You acting like you give a shit about the environment and holding ev's to ridiculous standards ICEs have never met like 800 mile range while you go to bat for the dinosaur fuel industry is hilarious though

 

[Tom Paris]

If you believe an electric vehicles battery will last as long as an ICE vehicle's drive train, I've got a bridge in Brooklyn that I can get you a great price on.

No you don’t.

 

[Tom Paris]

I agree with this and if you really did I'm not sure why you are pitching the fit you are defending ICEs. It's very short sighted. Everyone acknoledges that the transition to electric is going to take awhile and we are pretty early on in the process. I have two ICE vehicles and the one I drive most gets about 30 mpg combined.

Those will last me quite awhile but as soon as there's a solid ev option thats reasonably affordable I'm all in. Just not messing with oil changes is a huge selling point. Giving the middle finger to the gas price gougers will be great too

You acting like you give a shit about the environment and holding ev's to ridiculous standards ICEs have never met like 800 mile range while you go to bat for the dinosaur fuel industry is hilarious though

Everything about Republican voters is short game, which is ironic because their leadership and the billionaires who pay them play the long game.

 

[theiacowtipper]

Well, by law they must be warranted for 8 years. Most are warranted for 100,000+. They have an expected
Lifespan of 200k miles and when they do begin to age it’s just a small loss of expected mileage. There’s no question that it is similar to an ICE. Again there are downsides
To evs. Just because you are biased doesnt mean there is no place for them.

I’d give up if I were you @abby97 as well.

 

[93hawkeye]

How 'bout this: let individuals decide what works best for them.
You believe in EVs? Great, drive them.
You prefer ICEs? Great drive them.

 

[JRHawk2003]

How 'bout this: let individuals decide what works best for them.
You believe in EVs? Great, drive them.
You prefer ICEs? Great drive them.

Considering a lot of major manufacturers have already announced their transition to full EV you won't have a lot of new ICE choices. Possibly a niche market. Once mass EVs are cheap and we have a little more infrastructure not many will drive ICE.

 

[SA_Hawk]

There is more oil in Alaska and off it’s north shore than in the entire Middle East combined. We just refuse to go get it.

 

[Rifler]

Considering a lot of major manufacturers have already announced their transition to full EV you won't have a lot of new ICE choices. Possibly a niche market. Once mass EVs are cheap and we have a little more infrastructure not many will drive ICE.

Manufacturer's can announce plans, but eventually they will have to deal with consumer preferences,.. I suspect that the transition to EVs will be clumsier than you describe,.. Will be purchasing a new ICE vehicle within the next 12 months.

 

[RileyHawk]

Manufacturer's can announce plans, but eventually they will have to deal with consumer preferences,.. I suspect that the transition to EVs will be clumsier than you describe,.. Will be purchasing a new ICE vehicle within the next 12 months.

It's going pretty well so far. And the investments that have been and continue to be made toward the manufacture of EVs is not something corporations are going to reverse because there are a relative few who refuse to adopt technological changes.

Some people still refuse to get a cell phone.

 

[JRHawk2003]

Manufacturer's can announce plans, but eventually they will have to deal with consumer preferences,.. I suspect that the transition to EVs will be clumsier than you describe,.. Will be purchasing a new ICE vehicle within the next 12 months.

You are just obtuse. Total denial of reality

 

[3 and Out on D]

If this comes true, it will change the game.

750 miles on a 10 minute charge. Of course we'd need the infrastructure to support it.

I have 100K on my 12 year old Camry and it have many years and miles left. My wife's Camry had over 250K before she gave up driving.

https://www.clickondetroit.com/flas...isions-toyotas-750-mile-electric-car-battery/

 

[tarheelbybirth]

Talked to a guy from Williston North Dakota yesterday in the antique store where I sell. He said he's worked in the oil fields his entire adult life and has made a great living. He claims they are still in business.

That BOOM you heard was the point sailing over your head at supersonic speed.

 

[abby97]

It's going pretty well so far. And the investments that have been and continue to be made toward the manufacture of EVs is not something corporations are going to reverse because there are a relative few who refuse to adopt technological changes.

Some people still refuse to get a cell phone.

Ya, having to give buyers huge incentives to buy an EV shows how strong the market currently is. Did you get a government handout to buy you cell phone?

 

[JRHawk2003]

Ya, having to give buyers huge incentives to buy an EV shows how strong the market currently is. Did you get a government handout to buy you cell phone

You do know that all the North Dakota shale people and others get subsidies as well.

I would be fine with removing all subsidies for Green Energy AND Fossil Fuels. Lets see which one goes on.