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There is no energy independence with oil

Ya, having to give buyers huge incentives to buy an EV shows how strong the market currently is.:D Did you get a government handout to buy you cell phone?
LOL - you're defeating your own argument and are too dumb to recognize it. There are incentives to buy EVs which is ANOTHER reason they will be adopted whether you and others who can't handle change like it or not. The strategies and investments being made by manufacturers are not going to reverse because you and your backward brethren hold your breath.

And, BTW, the government did subsidize the cell phone industry as well as the internet to move us into the mobile environment that is ubiquitous today. Enough so that I have received several free phones with the service I contracted.

You continue to demonstrate your ignorance every day.
 
Agreed. It costs the Saudis ~$4 / barrel to produce. They will manipulate at will until we move away from fossil fuels altogether.

A study has been done on “Undue profits from fossil fuels” in the last 50 years. The conclusion they reached was $44 Trillion.

We are all schmucks.

Every fossil fuel defender has been screwed over by energy companies their entire life. Most are just too stupid to realize it.
Those OPEC criminals lucked out having all that Texas tea under their feet, that’s for sure. Imagine what the Middle East would look like had that oil been under sovereign soil?
 
How 'bout this: let individuals decide what works best for them.
You believe in EVs? Great, drive them.
You prefer ICEs? Great drive them
Ah, so your big idea is for things to be as they are now and will be for the foreseeable future? Brilliant! Did you come up with that all by yourself?
 
Wait until OP funds out about rare metals, where they are sourced, and who largely controls that market. Environmental damage is immense by the way.

Our country could be energy independent including oil very quickly. We have more oil in this country than you would believe. We gave even more natural gas than oil. So much natural gas it makes tge Saudi oil fields look small. We use the Saudis because we can. Let them deplete their resources while we maintain ours. The war on oil by the left is really stupid. Pursuing electric cars is nice and may be the future but we certainly cannot say that absolutely is the future. It takes a lot to build and eventually dispose of those batteries despite the propaganda and it is going to take a very long time for oil not to be the cheapest and most efficient model. We absolutely do not have the infrastructure to charge everyone's electric car so the tech needs to drastically improve across tge entire model
 
Imagine being like Abby (assuming its not a troll act), and defining your manhood by spending money on gasoline and fueling the Saudi's.

Thats how warped they have become.
Using oil also enriches Venezuela, Russia, Syria and Iran so checks out.

Basically every dictatorship outside of NK & China relies on oil production for holding power.
 
Wait until OP funds out about rare metals, where they are sourced, and who largely controls that market. Environmental damage is immense by the way.

Our country could be energy independent including oil very quickly. We have more oil in this country than you would believe. We gave even more natural gas than oil. So much natural gas it makes tge Saudi oil fields look small. We use the Saudis because we can. Let them deplete their resources while we maintain ours. The war on oil by the left is really stupid. Pursuing electric cars is nice and may be the future but we certainly cannot say that absolutely is the future. It takes a lot to build and eventually dispose of those batteries despite the propaganda and it is going to take a very long time for oil not to be the cheapest and most efficient model. We absolutely do not have the infrastructure to charge everyone's electric car so the tech needs to drastically improve across tge entire model

That was a big bunch of crap with zero data to back it up.
 
That was a big bunch of crap with zero data to back it up.
Or you are too stupid and lazy to look shit up.

Fairly well known

Thanks to the shale oil boom, the US is now sitting on more oil reserves than Russia, which estimates as having 256 billion barrels of untapped oil. The next-richest countries in terms of oil after that are: Saud Arabia (212 billion), Canada (167 billion), Iran (143 billion) and Brazil (120 billion).
 
According to U.S. Crude Oil and Natural Gas Proved Reserves, Year-end 2021, as of December 30, 2021, U.S. total natural gas proved reserves—estimated as wet gas (which includes hydrocarbon gas liquids [HGLs])—totaled about 625.4 trillion cubic feet
 
Or you are too stupid and lazy to look shit up.

Fairly well known

Thanks to the shale oil boom, the US is now sitting on more oil reserves than Russia, which estimates as having 256 billion barrels of untapped oil. The next-richest countries in terms of oil after that are: Saud Arabia (212 billion), Canada (167 billion), Iran (143 billion) and Brazil (120 billion).

Top 10 Countries with the Largest Oil Reserves (in thousand million barrels):​

RankCountryReserves% of World Total
1Venezuela
303.8​
17.5%​
2Saudi Arabia
297.5​
17.2%​
3Canada
168.1​
9.7%​
4Iran
157.8​
9.1%​
5Iraq
145.0​
8.4%​
6Russia
107.8​
6.2%​
7Kuwait
101.5​
5.9%​
8United Arab Emirates
97.8​
5.6%​
9United States
68.8​
4.0%​
10Libya
48.4​
2.8%​

https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/oil-reserves-by-country
 
According to U.S. Crude Oil and Natural Gas Proved Reserves, Year-end 2021, as of December 30, 2021, U.S. total natural gas proved reserves—estimated as wet gas (which includes hydrocarbon gas liquids [HGLs])—totaled about 625.4 trillion cubic feet

Top 10 Countries with the Largest Natural Gas Reserves (2020):​

RankCountry2020 Reserves (Cubic Meters)2020 Reserves (Cubic Feet)% of Global Reserves
1Russia
37.4 trillion​
1320.5 trillion​
19.9%​
2Iran
32.1 trillion​
1133.6 trillion​
17.1%​
3Qatar
24.7 trillion​
871.1 trillion​
13.1%​
4Turkmenistan
13.6 trillion​
480.3 trillion​
7.2%​
5United States
12.6 trillion​
445.6 trillion​
6.7%​
6China
8.4 trillion​
296.6 trillion​
4.5%​
7Venezuela
6.3 trillion​
221.1 trillion​
3.3%​
8Saudi Arabia
6.0 trillion​
212.6 trillion​
3.2%​
9United Arab Emirates
5.9 trillion​
209.7 trillion​
3.2%​
10Nigeria
5.5 trillion​
193.3 trillion​
2.9%​

https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/natural-gas-by-country
 
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It doesn't matter how much oil and gas the United States has or doesn't have. It belongs to whoever has mineral rights and they will sell on a global market to the highest bidder.
 
For those of you actually interested look up mancos in Colorado. 66 trillion cubic feet of natural has estimated that is recoverable up from previous estimates of 1.6trillion in the early 2000s. This is unproven in terms of actual measurement that would be listed anywhere but it is there. Shale has demonstrated that the US could be energy independent any time they would like and any notion that we would run out is foolish.
 
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Shale has demonstrated that the US could be energy independent any time they would like and any notion that we would run out is foolish.
Not without dramatic change to the economic ideology we just spent half a century imposing (often violently) on half the world. We would have to ban exports and basically nationalize the oil and gas companies to prevent them from colluding to gouge customers.
 
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For those of you actually interested look up mancos in Colorado. 66 trillion cubic feet of natural has estimated that is recoverable up from previous estimates of 1.6trillion in the early 2000s. This is unproven in terms of actual measurement that would be listed anywhere but it is there. Shale has demonstrated that the US could be energy independent any time they would like and any notion that we would run out is foolish.
You're an idiot. An ignorant idiot that spouts nonsense.
 
Or you are too stupid and lazy to look shit up.

Fairly well known

Thanks to the shale oil boom, the US is now sitting on more oil reserves than Russia, which estimates as having 256 billion barrels of untapped oil. The next-richest countries in terms of oil after that are: Saud Arabia (212 billion), Canada (167 billion), Iran (143 billion) and Brazil (120 billion).

You made the claim. Back it up. What is the source of those numbers?

I told you already. The Saudis manipulate the price via OPEC because they can produce at a low cost per barrel. The shale producers have wayyyy higher overhead and cost per barrel. The shale people they need oil to be expensive to turn a decent profit. The Saudis know this so they just turn on the spigots when they want to bury the shale people and all of a sudden shale isn't profitable. Again, always at the mercy of Saudis.

Why does the right support Russia, The Saudi's, etc ? Even if some battery material comes from China currently. There is no guarantee it has to in the future AND it's a one time purchase. I'm not back buying from them every 3-4 days.

Why have you attached yourself to oil? Yes, I do have to use its products at times, but I have made several switch outs and always am looking to do more to lower my carbon footprint. It also saves me a lot of money. Don't see the downside.
 
You made the claim. Back it up. What is the source of those numbers?

I told you already. The Saudis manipulate the price via OPEC because they can produce at a low cost per barrel. The shale producers have wayyyy higher overhead and cost per barrel. The shale people they need oil to be expensive to turn a decent profit. The Saudis know this so they just turn on the spigots when they want to bury the shale people and all of a sudden shale isn't profitable. Again, always at the mercy of Saudis.

Why does the right support Russia, The Saudi's, etc ? Even if some battery material comes from China currently. There is no guarantee it has to in the future AND it's a one time purchase. I'm not back buying from them every 3-4 days.

Why have you attached yourself to oil? Yes, I do have to use its products at times, but I have made several switch outs and always am looking to do more to lower my carbon footprint. It also saves me a lot of money. Don't see the downside.
You are so incredibly brainwashed you don't even understand what the hell you are saying. Yes you will be buying energy foe your vehicle whether it is electric or gasoline based. That you make the claim you won't need to pay every 3 to 4 days is a really clear indicator you really do not understand this issue even a little bit. You pay for gas now but will pay to charge your car on an electric vehicle in direct and indirect costs. The indirect costs will be the taxes required to build out the grid in a manner that can support more and more electric vehicles. That isn't free and if you truly care about the poor this will be an incredibly regressive tax burden. You will also need to offset the gasoline taxes in some manner that currently go primarily to roads. That isn't a small shift. There will not be any cost savings personally in the same way that cutting the cord on cable hasn't resulted in cost savings for the vast majority of people. You just pay for different things.

Electric cars are sexy but the truth is they are not the energy climate saving wonders they have been sold as over time. They most certainly have gotten better and could very well be the future. Lithium mines are a tremendous environmental disaster not to mention the absolute human rights abuses occurring in the mines. You cannot be a champion of human rights and be supportive if Lithium mining unless you willfully ignore it. Other heavy metals that go into battery production are really no better. I am surprised you acknowledge that China has the leading edge in this space because they absolutely do. They control much of the world's access to these things which is not in our or the world's best interest at all if this truly is the only future possible. Leaving ourselves vulnerable to China is something that should never happen again and if you believe it.will be fine I promise you that is a bad strategy. The economic and environmental impact of batteries that have lost their usefulness is also something people like it ignore because we simply do things like dump them in Africa. These batteries in Africa and Lithium mines will be what granola types will be crying about and blaming the previous generation over in around 30 years.

As for why oil? Because it works, there is lots and lots of it, we have our own supply that truly cannot be cut off, and it is cheap. Engines using gasoline have gotten much more efficient and there is little reason to believe they won't get even better. There has also be progress made on refitting large trucks and ships with engines that run on natural gas. Which truly is an endless supply for us whether you want to believe that or not. Natural gas burns about as clean as anything in existence. There are still challenges here but we sure don't need Lithium mines and reliance on China to build natural gas engines.. These engines are already in use on large container ships and are working well. I know this because I have friwnds that have financed the deals to be innovative.

The truth is there is value in having multiple approaches that include gasoline, natural gas, and electric. I think we will see tremendous advancements in battery tech in the next decade bit think the real opportunity is in our homes. It makes.much more sense to have a battey within each home to regulate energy production and allow each home.to produce and store energy while feeding the grid than to ha e batteries that need to be configured to fit within a car. The home battery doesn't need to.move ever and would likely be as common ad having a furnace and air conditioner.

If you do want electric cars you probably need to get real comfortable with nuclear energy. Green energy can get better abd has been sold well but it truly isn't that efficient or effective. I'm sorry but it just isnt no matter how.much you want to believe it.

Oil isn't going.anywhwre.

By the way I know we have the largest natural gas supply in the world because I know people personally in the industry and they have told.me as much. We have more natural gas than Saudi Arabia has oil.
 
According to U.S. Crude Oil and Natural Gas Proved Reserves, Year-end 2021, as of December 30, 2021, U.S. total natural gas proved reserves—estimated as wet gas (which includes hydrocarbon gas liquids [HGLs])—totaled about 625.4 trillion cubic feet

That's natural gas.
You are so incredibly brainwashed you don't even understand what the hell you are saying. Yes you will be buying energy foe your vehicle whether it is electric or gasoline based. That you make the claim you won't need to pay every 3 to 4 days is a really clear indicator you really do not understand this issue even a little bit. You pay for gas now but will pay to charge your car on an electric vehicle in direct and indirect costs. The indirect costs will be the taxes required to build out the grid in a manner that can support more and more electric vehicles. That isn't free and if you truly care about the poor this will be an incredibly regressive tax burden. You will also need to offset the gasoline taxes in some manner that currently go primarily to roads. That isn't a small shift. There will not be any cost savings personally in the same way that cutting the cord on cable hasn't resulted in cost savings for the vast majority of people. You just pay for different things.

Electric cars are sexy but the truth is they are not the energy climate saving wonders they have been sold as over time. They most certainly have gotten better and could very well be the future. Lithium mines are a tremendous environmental disaster not to mention the absolute human rights abuses occurring in the mines. You cannot be a champion of human rights and be supportive if Lithium mining unless you willfully ignore it. Other heavy metals that go into battery production are really no better. I am surprised you acknowledge that China has the leading edge in this space because they absolutely do. They control much of the world's access to these things which is not in our or the world's best interest at all if this truly is the only future possible. Leaving ourselves vulnerable to China is something that should never happen again and if you believe it.will be fine I promise you that is a bad strategy. The economic and environmental impact of batteries that have lost their usefulness is also something people like it ignore because we simply do things like dump them in Africa. These batteries in Africa and Lithium mines will be what granola types will be crying about and blaming the previous generation over in around 30 years.

As for why oil? Because it works, there is lots and lots of it, we have our own supply that truly cannot be cut off, and it is cheap. Engines using gasoline have gotten much more efficient and there is little reason to believe they won't get even better. There has also be progress made on refitting large trucks and ships with engines that run on natural gas. Which truly is an endless supply for us whether you want to believe that or not. Natural gas burns about as clean as anything in existence. There are still challenges here but we sure don't need Lithium mines and reliance on China to build natural gas engines.. These engines are already in use on large container ships and are working well. I know this because I have friwnds that have financed the deals to be innovative.

The truth is there is value in having multiple approaches that include gasoline, natural gas, and electric. I think we will see tremendous advancements in battery tech in the next decade bit think the real opportunity is in our homes. It makes.much more sense to have a battey within each home to regulate energy production and allow each home.to produce and store energy while feeding the grid than to ha e batteries that need to be configured to fit within a car. The home battery doesn't need to.move ever and would likely be as common ad having a furnace and air conditioner.

If you do want electric cars you probably need to get real comfortable with nuclear energy. Green energy can get better abd has been sold well but it truly isn't that efficient or effective. I'm sorry but it just isnt no matter how.much you want to believe it.

Oil isn't going.anywhwre.

By the way I know we have the largest natural gas supply in the world because I know people personally in the industry and they have told.me as much. We have more natural gas than Saudi Arabia has oil.

Natural gas doesn't run cars

Oil isn't cheap. Shale isn't cheap to produce.

You have produced no data to backup your claims. "I know a guy" isn't proof of anything.
 
That's natural gas.


Natural gas doesn't run cars

Oil isn't cheap. Shale isn't cheap to produce.

You have produced no data to backup your claims. "I know a guy" isn't proof of anything.
Good lord you really are dumb.

Natural gas engines are a thing. It is already happening as already explained in my post.

Shale production becomes economical as oil prices increase which occurs when supply gets restricted. This is basic economics. The important part though is we have a lot of it. So much it makes the idea that we couldn't be independent on oil or natural gas production laughable.

Why do you like children working as slaves in cobalt mines?

You are a clown dude
 
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Good lord you really are dumb.

Natural gas engines are a thing. It is already happening as already explained in my post.

Shale production becomes economical as oil prices increase which occurs when supply gets restricted. This is basic economics. The important part though is we have a lot of it. So much it makes the idea that we couldn't be independent on oil or natural gas production laughable.

Why do you like children working as slaves in cobalt mines?

You are a clown dude

You keep calling me names because you have no data

The Saudis control the market. OPEC is a cartel setting the per barrel price of oil. We can't be independent without heavy government subsidies because shale would not be profitable because it produces at a far higher cost. It's not hard to understand.

You go ahead and keep pissing your money away on your Saudi buddies. I will keep more of mine.
 
Shale production becomes economical as oil prices increase which occurs when supply gets restricted. This is basic economics.
Which ties our oil production to the world market which is controlled by the Saudis because they can pump oil out of the ground at a fraction of what it costs to extract shale oil. Ergo, no energy "independence" with oil as asserted in the OP. As you said...basic economics.

Are we done with this shit now?
 
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